thanks Heinz, do ptgui have tutorials about using this stiching technique, i should google that, am absolutely new to this, i have used ptgui for single row stuff, i attached a shot i took using NN stuff, just single row though, i just got a new gitzo series five tripod and am keen to use the M1 ultimate on that, thanks for the info, i was sure there is stuff already on threads but if i put the lens name into the search engine here nothing happens, cheers
thanks Heinz, do ptgui have tutorials about using this stiching technique, i should google that, am absolutely new to this, i have used ptgui for single row stuff
If you can stitch single row panoramas with PTGui, then you can stitch multi-row panoramas too. There is no essential difference, as PTGui's stitcher has no concept of rows and columns. Nor is there anything special about zenith and nadir images that are shot simply by rotating the camera up/down whilst maintaining the no-parallax viewpoint. All that's required is that the images overlap to provide complete coverage and control points are assigned between immediate neighbouring images. For a nadir shot taken with the camera offset from the position used for the main set of shots, then you can invoke viewpoint correction to apply perspective correction to ensure good alignment. There are viewpoint correction tutorials at the PTGui web site and on my site at http://www.johnhpanos.com.
you have nailed my newbie fears John, the bit about nadirs and whether you have to line them up or something or other has been a a source of confusion, lol, as an old technophobe i will have to do some reiki or something then relax and do some real practical stuff then the tips and stuff will make more sense, will be ordering my nadir extender and shim and will hopefully be producing within a week or so, if all goes well, i have had the M1 for over a year and have not made a multi row pano yet, just viewed some of your shots, they look really great, the Ilfracombe shot really is wonderful, what a beautiful place England is, i would be really happy producing that quality, the sigma lenses are really very good, i had a look at the big fast 50mm they make, lots of glass.
I am just starting out on this long voyage of panography and (so far) I am shooting with a D800 and 14-24mm. My first few panos I thought I had the NPP spot on but on closer looking I was a little out. I am still experimenting and so far am now undecided whether the UPPER rail is best at 154 or 155mm. I'm pretty sure the LOWER rail is 136mm, this is with the vertical rail on the Nadir adapter in the 'normal' position (the vertical rail can be mounted 2 ways on the adapter to give more clearance). Heinz and a few others have measured the LOWER (LRS) rail at 135.5 but I am using a Kirk 'L' bracket so I'm assuming it's a different thickness. Also the mark on my Kirk bracket I feel is slightly confusing me because it doesn't 'seem' to run down the centre of the lens axis. In fact, since I've re-positioned the plate my alignment seems to be great, and the last 2 indoor 360's I did had no stitching errors. I am thinking of buying the U3 camera plate though to eliminate me having to 'think' when mounting the camera to the Ninja.
Any UPPER (URS) setting above 154mm will need the adapter that Heinz mentioned to heighten the vertical rail, although, I did a Zenith shot not quite straight up and it stitched great.
I am using a Manfrotto 055xproB tripod and when set at the average height it probably would be better with a shorter centre column as there isn't much room for error, although, again, I moved the tripod further than necessary for the Nadir2 shot and the stitching was great.
Software-wise I've tried both Autopano and PtGui and, for me, PTGui is way more user-friendly and the masking tool (just like Photoshop) is easy to use.
I do feel the Nikon 16mm is an easier option though, certainly for indoors and that will probably be my next purchase, along with a shorter column, a camera plate a..............................lol
I hope this information can be of use, and indeed, these forums are full of people willing to assist you, learning has never been so much fun!!
Last edited by Johnytuono; 09-11-2013 at 02:53 PM.
Cheers Johnytouno, that is indeed very helpful, i have used some of the test shots and have managed to make a spherical pano with them in ptgui, what happens after that? how do i turn that into a scrollable spherical pano, need to research a bit more, will be getting the nadir attachment delivered next week, then i will start, hope you dont mind if i ask simple questions, i think the fast pano's from a monopod has commercial appeal, car interiors for flash dealers, knock out some sphericals for 100aud a pop, min 5, lol, anyway nice to meet you and i have added all the guys who assisted on this thread as my new best friends, lol, cheeers
I use Pano2VR for the 360 spherical pano. Download the program and drag your stitched pano onto the Pano2VR icon (or you can load from inside the Pano2VR program). Then in the centre window there is an 'add' button ( I add it as Flash) and it then creates the 360 where you can look around the scene. I haven't got my head round Pano2vr yet so that is a simplified version.
I did as you did though and practised on Heinz and John H photos, it made life a lot easier when I took my own pictures. As I said before, basically you, like all of us, are learning quite a few things, shooting panos, PTgui and I suppose Pano2vr (or other software) for presentation.
I was really puzzled about the Nadir and Zenith shots ( what language is this I thought), but once you actually take the shots it all fits in to place........eventually lol. I am no way an expert btw but I feel I am learning...a lot.
Most of all.....Have fun!
Thanks so much for that, that really clears things up a bit, will get pano2vr, yea the learning curve is steep, am really into timelapse atm as well which has been a journey as well, with spherical pano's i will have a few commercially viable features for my upcoming website,have ordered the nadir adaptor, can i make a spherical without the nadir using my 14-24? it is two rows of 6 at +/- 30degrees with one zenith and two nadirs, i have read a tute from michel thoby, he says you can do a spherical with 8 shots using a 14mm lens, is that right? cheers.
I've always done the 2 rows around at +/- 30. I bought the M1 with the adapter so I can't answer with certainty about the Nadir. Try and swivel it so it points straight down for the Nadir (I think it clears the rail) then take another (after moving the tripod) but obviously at angle ( this is called Nadir2 or N2), then in PtGui make sure you 'check' the Viewpoint Correction (VP) box. The Zenith shot won't be pointed straight up because the Nadir adapter gives you that extra (although not enough, hence the additional plate) clearance but I feel it probably will still stitch. If you decide not to take a Nadir shot all it will leave (in a spherical pano) is a black round hole. Some people fill this with their own logo etc. Same with the Zenith.......it just leaves a small(ish) black hole. You can still look around the spherical.
Hope this helps...............and I'm in the UK...so I'm off to bed lol.
Well, today I tried the 6 around at 0 degrees and a zenith and Nadir shot and got slight misses where the nadir and zenith didn't quite meet the other images. I turned the head round halfway like Michel Thoby advised (for the zenith) and to be honest there's very very little margin for error. On an important job I certainly wouldn't risk it. I also tried pointing down at 7.5 degrees and obviously this fixed the bottom half but left a bigger gap where the zenith met the rest of the photos. Unless I'm doing something wrong it seems a bit risky, and as you know, other websites advise 2 rows at +/- 30.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by Johnytuono; 09-12-2013 at 12:10 PM.
If you're shooting at the wide end of the zoom range, try 6 around at -10 (or -7.5), the zenith at +65 and nadir -90 as normal.
That pattern works well with the Nikkor 16mm, which would be in the same range. The reason I say +65 instead of +90 for the zenith is that +65 gives the stitching program more common image with the 6 roundshots which helps your stitch, especially with outdoor images where a +90 zenith can be almost entirely sky.
Unless I'm doing something wrong it seems a bit risky,
You're not doing anything wrong. You can trial different shooting configurations very simply without taking an photographs. Just add a number of fullframe images into PTGui (it doesn't matter what the images contain). Then lie on the Lens Settings tab about the lens that was supposedly used - 14mm rectilinear at a crop factor of 1. Then set the panorama editor to 360x180 equirectangular, and assign yaw and pitch angles on the Image Parameters tab to test particular shooting patterns. Use Fill Yaw to set a row up quickly. It's easy to see how the images overlap (or don't, as the case may be). Of course, you can also drag the images about. Switching images on/off via the Include Images table on the Create Panorama tab will help in assessing the amount of overlap.
I shoot a lot of spherical panos with the Nikkor 14mm f/2.8 on a D4 and shoot 3 rows of 6 shots (every 60 degrees) at 0 degrees, plus 60 and minus 60 degrees plus a nadir shot. You don't need a zenith shot. It works out very well. FYI. If you're pre-processing your images in Adobe Camera Raw, do not use any lens distortion correction in the lens profile. It will crop out some of your overlap and seems to confuse PTGui. I hope this helps.
this post has been viewed by nearly 700 people, like me they may have found it difficult to get all the info including software and post production in one place, i would find a sticky that gives all the info on all the software necessary for creating Spherical pano's very helpful not just for that lens, i did a fair bit of googling in my search but did not find all the specifics in one spot, am sure Johnny could do a good job, after i get the extender i will be practicing and then i will have a go myself,thanks and happiness to all.
I agree a sticky would be very very useful. On the software side, I only 'know' little bits of what I've used through trial and error (and info off here of course) and am no way an expert. Even after the tour (or single 360) is made there's the how-to's of publishing onto your website, which I'm trying to get to grips with at the moment. I am currently trying out Panotour Pro (instead of Pano2VR) and it seems far easier to make a tour (the adding of hotspots and links to other panos etc).
It's a long road my friend, but lots of friendly, informative people on here to give you a lift to your destination.
I like the shot you've posted btw, nice subtle colours and obviously an interesting subject shot well.
Most of all......have fun!
Last edited by Johnytuono; 10-28-2013 at 12:36 PM.
Cheers Johnytouno, sphericals are a fairly compex issue, but back in the day when i had a medium format darkroom and was studying Ansel Adams zone system, now that was really tricky, trying to get two stops of extra dynamic range from BandW had to be a chemist almost, in the last few years i have learned how to use cubase which is a music production program that is very complex, anyway i will be receiving my nodal thingy for my 14-24 and will be practicing and probably hassling everyone here for fast info, maybe we could co-produce a piece and use on our websites, guaranteed to get a lot of attention i bet, yea fun filters into the shots, i did read something about adding hotspots recently, that sounds cool, also have you any tips on doing sphericals inside cars, i think there is a market for them in luxury car dealers, i am going to sydney soon and there is a street with all the top dealers, with my new ipad i can blow their minds with some demo pano's and maybe charge 150 each, min 5, could be easy money, i saw one of a vw interior, was very impressive,