Upper rotator on M1-L
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  1. Upper rotator on M1-L

    #1

    Hi
    New to the world of panoramics (have done hand-held) and am thinking of buying the M1-L.
    After looking at the FOV chart for a 200mm lens on full frame I notice that the FOV would be 7.5 in portrait orientation. Given that the upper rotator has positive stops every 7.5 degrees, it means I can't have overlap just by feeling/hearing the rotator movement as I would have to move the dial back an increment (I assume). Yet, looking at the specs. on the M2 I notice that the upper rotator has positive stops every 2.5 degrees which is a much better option for this FOV. If I purchased the M1 is the upper rotator interchangeable or have I got it completely wrong? I live in the UK and don't see any mention of the M2 on the official resellers' site.
    Thanks for any help/advice.
    John

    EDIT: Do the charts on the NN site have the overlap took into account?
    Last edited by Johnytuono; 08-11-2013 at 09:12 AM. Reason: New info
  2. #2
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    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,741

    Hi and welcome to the forum.

    Yes, the overlap is in account.

    In case you like to use an upper rotator without being set to 7,5° detend preset, you have to buy an M2. The rotators are not interchangeable.

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    If you are doing landscapes as favorite panoramas and using longer lenses, I'd go for a M2 with RD16II. You can choose for the interval of the upper rotator in case you like to use other long focal lenses. As you see in picture, the upper rotator of M2 has an additional blue "End" mark ring which helps you to taking landscapes. The RD16II is equipped with an extra blue ring and free movable index ring as well for taking landscapes.

    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 08-11-2013 at 10:41 PM.
  3. #3

    Thanks Heinz
    So I'm assuming this email from Customer Services means the lower rotator

    "Hi John,
    The FOV tables already consider a given degree of overlap at the different focal length.
    M1-L is perfect up to a 200mm lens on a full frame camera.
    The rotator can be upgraded form the M1-L to the M2 anytime.
    Please contact Tony Quinn at Red-Door: even if the product is not listed in the website, they can surely order it for you.
    Regards,
    Mauro Contrafatto
    Customer Service Manager | Nodal Ninja
    3454 N. San Marcos Pl. #9, Chandler, AZ 85225
    P. 480-659-9899 8am-12pm M-T-Th-F (-7GMT) | F: 480-452-0452 "

    Website: www.nodalninja.com | Forum: www.nodalninja.com/forum



    Can you please tell me what the positive stops are on the M2 upper rotator please and can settings in between (if needed) be used? Although in hindsight 3.5 degrees would be plenty for a 200mm lens. I really want the best of ALL worlds (don't we all). I want to shoot 180, 360 and venture into the gigapixel images. I have a Nikon D800 with all 3 trinity lenses, would you recommend the M2 with the RD16 II rotator or the M1 with RD16 II. I do like the idea of having a blue index collar on the upper rotator though (like the RD16 II has). Is this not available on the M1 upper rotator (like on the M2)?
    Thanks for your help!
    John
  4. #4
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    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,741

    John,

    I just checked my M1-L and M2. You can change the upper rotator by unscrewing it and change it into M2. You have to take take off the black knob, take out 4 screws and change the rotator. So it is quite a bit work.

    I'd recommend you the M2 with RD16II. The reason: the rotator is freely movable to the 2.5° marks on the index ring. I've tested it with a Nikkor 300mm/f2.8. With M1-L you can only use the 7,5° detend preset settings. Because you have all the prime lenses as I do, you be glad to be free in setting your upper rotator besides the 7,5° steps.

    Really no chance to get the blue "End' mark on the M1-L rotator.

    Regards,
    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 08-12-2013 at 10:03 AM.
  5. #5

    Hi Heinz
    Thanks for looking for me. Sorry but I meant the 3 trinity zooms (14-24, 24-70 and 70-200) which, looking at the lens chart, would probably be ok at 7.5 intervals. I like the idea of positive stops to be honest ( which I thought the M2 upper one had). Someone said on the older (earlier) M1's that the mark in-between 7.5 could be set, although not positively. I talked to Tony at Red-door and he was very very helpful. i can still shoot Gigapixel images with a focal length of 200m? No?
    Thanks again
    John
  6. #6
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    Hi John, yes that's what I meant as well. 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200. I used them on NN5 in the beginning. I mentioned the 300mm lens, to set proof that even such a heavy lens will stay in place on M2 rotator.

    To set in-between the detend stops on M1 rotator is dangerous. Imagine the rotator is constructed of two side. One with fingers, the other one has gaps. When you close the rotator you have to imagine that the fingers of your left hand go in the rooms of the fingers of your right hand. When you take your hands apart, you can move the position of the fingers one gap further and then close again. When you take a step in between the detend 7,5°, you will set finger tip on top of finger tip, you can not close the rotator in such a position fully. It is in no secure position and when it slips off, it may damage the inside of the rotator.

    We have to accept that Nick has two designs of rotators, the ones with fixed detend settings, and the ones which are movable freely to be set to all marks of the index ring.

    Actually you can take Gigapixels with the 24-70 zoom@70 for example. So why not with the 70 -200?

    Once again, I'd go for M2 with Rd16II. Get two MRF210mm rails because you will need a long rail for your set of lenses.
    In case your lower rail setting with D800 will do with a MFR170mm, you do not need a second MFR210. But I do not know the LRS of D800 because I have not tested it. The D3 has a LRS of 185, so I need a second long rail.

    So long,
    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 08-12-2013 at 12:19 PM.
  7. #7

    Hi
    Sorry to be a pain but I have a couple more questions.
    I'm assuming there's some sort of database/settings for the NPP point and camera height to be able to set the camera on the rails? I know, obviously, that it's just a case of moving the sliders and tightening but will I be able to get repeatable results. What I'm trying to say is, is the measurement scale exact and easy to read?
    I can find settings etc. for D700, D3 but not for D800 with 14-24mm.
    Also, my D800 currently has a Kirk 'L' bracket (arca swiss compat) attached.....do i Need to buy a camera plate?
    Thanks for any info.
    John
    Last edited by Johnytuono; 08-12-2013 at 01:50 PM.
  8. #8
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    Yes, the measurement scale is exact and easy to read.

    I do not have settings for D800 because I do not have one.

    You can use the L-bracket but you have to center it in the upper rail clamp yourself to the L-bracket's center mark. In case you decide to get a fanotec camera plate, it will be centered automatically.

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    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 08-12-2013 at 02:57 PM.
  9. #9
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    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnytuono View Post
    Hi
    New to the world of panoramics (have done hand-held) and am thinking of buying the M1-L.
    After looking at the FOV chart for a 200mm lens on full frame I notice that the FOV would be 7.5 in portrait orientation. Given that the upper rotator has positive stops every 7.5 degrees, it means I can't have overlap just by feeling/hearing the rotator movement as I would have to move the dial back an increment (I assume). Yet, looking at the specs. on the M2 I notice that the upper rotator has positive stops every 2.5 degrees which is a much better option for this FOV. If I purchased the M1 is the upper rotator interchangeable or have I got it completely wrong? I live in the UK and don't see any mention of the M2 on the official resellers' site.
    Thanks for any help/advice.
    John

    EDIT: Do the charts on the NN site have the overlap took into account?
    Hi John,

    You mount the camera in portrait orientation on Nodal Ninja by default. The upper rotator utilizes the longer side of the sensor.

    Here is a good fov calculator that can give you values for a list of focal length.

    http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/photos/angles.html

    Query Results

    You submitted the following name/value pairs:
    focal = 200
    format = 24 36
    width = 24
    length = 36
    Width = 24 mm, Length = 36 mm, Diagonal = 43.2666 mm
    f Hor Vert Diag H/V
    200.0 10.2855 6.8673 12.3470 1.4978


    The longer side of sensor has a angle of view of 10.29 deg. Using 7.5 deg upper rotator interval you have (10.29-7.5)/10.29=27% overlap. That is good enough. You then need to use 5 deg interval for the lower rotator.
    The M2 upper rotator has free rotating upper rotator. It requires special addon (under development) to give precise rotation of preset stops.

    Nick
    Last edited by nick fan; 08-14-2013 at 01:17 AM.



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  10. #10

    Hi Nick
    Thanks for the reply and confirmation. Link doesn't work (for me) btw.
    Do you know all the settings I have to use on the sliders for the D800 and using the 3 zooms I have (14-24, 24-70, 70-200mm).
    As a side note...@70mm (a 34 degree FOV) the overlap would be either 66% using the 7.5 degree settings (x4).....surely that's too much? or only 11% 7.5(x3).. surely that's too little?
    Thank you
    John


    EDIT: I think the Nikon sites' FOV is measured diagonally.
    Last edited by Johnytuono; 08-13-2013 at 11:19 AM.
  11. #11
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    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
    Posts: 2,475

    Hi John,

    I fixed the link to the fov calculator.
    I made a chart to guide you selecting the focal length and corresponding rotator interval at desired % overlap. The focal lengths in red are approximation to available lenses.
    https://fanotec-public.s3.amazonaws....Ninja%20M1.pdf

    Nick



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.

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