Which R1 adjustable for D800e/sigma 8mm?

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  1. Which R1 adjustable for D800e/sigma 8mm?

    #1

    Thinking of one of the two R1 adjustable packages for use with Nikon D800e and Sigma 8mm. If that's the only combo i will be using, (i want to be able to shoot nadir) is there a compelling reason to chose one of the packages over the other?
  2. #2
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,740

    Hi and welcome to the forum.

    To set things clear: there are two versions of this series: R1 with adjustable tilt head and second R10 series with static tilt head.

    R1: adjustable tilt between -15° and +12,5° http://shop.nodalninja.com/ultimate-...ly-no-rotator/ Just open the fixing knob to change to another tilt.

    Nadir shot by tilting down to >90°, move tripod aside and use full viewpoint correction version in stitching. Nadir shot is out of NPP using the built in nadir position. To be close to NPP it has to be shot handheld. Zenith can be covered by using for example +5° tilt depending on your combination. Best zenith shot is one shot at +90° using the center of the lens.
    There is a built in zenith position in R1 as well, but it let's the camera "fall down and move aside", so no NPP position. No problem outside with objects further away, well inside shooting real estate for example.

    R10: static tilt to the chosen tilt version of the head for example + -5° and 0° position. You have to unscrew the top clamp to change your tilt set up. Nadir must be shot handheld.

    http://shop.nodalninja.com/r10-static-tilt-head-only/

    Handheld nadir shots are easy for special situations: you should be trained to do it, you use shorter exposures, you do not shoot extended bracketing, 3 shots for example.

    Basics so far.

    Next question: what do you like to shoot. Shooting on a tripod is different from pole shots.

    Shooting on a pole most of us use the top tilted down to -7.5° and the lens ring footplate moved forward inside the clamp to get a smaller Nadir hole. Using R1 easy to be adjusted. Using R10 you have to unscrew and re fix your top clamp.

    R1/R10 can be used with different rotators, Mini Rotator or RD5 for example, and this a small and light weight solution. Think of carrying it up to the mountain.

    Another option: If your "Pre" is shooting Nadir with Nadir Adapter for example and Zenith in NPP position, size and weight is not so important, I should go for R1-S.
    Small new panohead that let's you shoot Zenith and Nadir in NPP position by fixing the lens ring in the rotator clamp on top of the vertical rail. For easy nadir shooting you can add the Nadir Adapter to lower rail and off you go. No handheld Nadir, so you can use long exposures, Zenith shot taken in center of the lens - best quality - or for example in 2 shots +60° pitch 180° visa versa to get connection from blue sky to corners of roofs or other ground info.

    http://shop.nodalninja.com/nn-rs-1/

    Click image for larger version

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    Hope this helps a bit, but to make a good choice, "what is the difference" is not the only input to take your decision.
    Feel free to ask,
    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 01-26-2013 at 11:50 PM.
  3. #3
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
    Posts: 2,427

    R10 5 deg will be good. You can clone the nadir shot or patch with a handheld nadir shot.

    Nick



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  4. #4
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,740

    Hi Nick, even on a sunday morning.

    That's what NN Fanotec stands for! Best service.

    So long,
    Heinz
  5. #5

    Thanks for your quick and detailed replies. My original question was concerning the two R1 packages available in the store, so I guess the proper question would have been "is there an advantage to the larger rotator with the setup I mentioned?"

    Now the detail I should have given at the outset:

    My initial project will be interior real estate (probably HDR) with a mix of indoor and outdoor from then on. I would like to be able to shoot the nadir from the tripod if possible. I will most likely want to get into pole shooting at some point in the future. My impression is that one of the R1 packages will provide the most flexibility moving forward.

    In terms of background, I currently shoot gigapixel panoramas using a gigapan robot and stitch with Autopano Giga. Iknow that I will have a lot to learn about this related but very different process.

    Thanks for your time and advice!
  6. #6
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,740

    OK,

    The mini rotator is the smallest rotator with a fixed number of shots around depending on the top ring. To change number of shots around you have to buy another ring with a different set up. The mini rotator has a stop screw in the bottom, so it can not be locked being mounted. It can be mounted on top of tripod or on top of pole. It can not be used at the bottom of pole or on pole tripod adapter.

    RD5 has a lock knob and number of shots around which can be changed on the fly by changing the position of detend knob. Can be used on top of tripod or pole, plus below pole and on pole tripod adapter or on footplate. In all: more flexibility to panos needs shooting different locations and with different camera-lens combinations.

    Sorry to say, real estate, probably HDR, Nadir from tripod with R1/R10 is not the best way to shoot a pano. As you can see in the set of pics I uploaded, R1 Nadir and Zenith position are out of NPP. Specially real estate pics often have a problem in zenith area because of lack of control points in ceiling area. Objects are closer to the lens, shots outside NPP will ask a lot of time during stitching to correct stitching errors. Of course +5° pitch will cover the zenith, fine for outdoors, but not for all situations indoor. I've seen a lot of examples with stitching problems in the zenith, which needed zenith shots at +60° 180° visa versa to get connection from shots at 0° to ceiling area. You will probably have to step over to HDR bracketing for example with +2 / -2EV as set of three to be able to deal with different light from the windows and inside areas. Shoot in "mirror up"and "CL"mode to get good pics with D800. Shooting Nadir with R1 will ask you to set control points manually during stitching.

    To cut it short, I have experience with R1, R1-S, Mini Rotator, RD5, used with tripod or poles. Plus D3/D700 and Sigma 8mm. If I would be you, I'd go for R1-S with Nadir Adapter. But you have to take your own decision for your future plans.

    May be you can ask your reseller to test both set ups and send one back in case it is not damaged.

    Cheers,
    Heinz

    Btw: FX, sigma 3.5, 0°, +5°, +7.5°, Zenith +60° visa versa, zenith 90°, Nadir1, Nadir2, for stitching play around to see Zenit and Nadir holes etc D700 Sigma 8mm/f3.5

    http://ge.tt/2vAKMfW

    In this set up you have a lot more zenith infos than in normal real estate with a plain ceiling.
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 01-27-2013 at 03:16 PM.
  7. #7
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
    Posts: 2,427

    Quote Originally Posted by mosleyh View Post
    Thanks for your quick and detailed replies. My original question was concerning the two R1 packages available in the store, so I guess the proper question would have been "is there an advantage to the larger rotator with the setup I mentioned?"

    Now the detail I should have given at the outset:

    My initial project will be interior real estate (probably HDR) with a mix of indoor and outdoor from then on. I would like to be able to shoot the nadir from the tripod if possible. I will most likely want to get into pole shooting at some point in the future. My impression is that one of the R1 packages will provide the most flexibility moving forward.

    In terms of background, I currently shoot gigapixel panoramas using a gigapan robot and stitch with Autopano Giga. Iknow that I will have a lot to learn about this related but very different process.

    Thanks for your time and advice!
    Rotator Mini is build for cost. RD5 or RD4 factory irregular will be much better choice.

    Nick



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  8. #8

    After additional thought and research, I've opted for the Nikon 16mm instead of the sigma (more shots aroiund, yes but I think the added resolution will be worth it. Also I think the lens will be more useful outside of pano-ing). My R1 kit lands Friday. Now let's see if I can find the proper settings hereabouts. . .
  9. #9
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Sep 2009
    Location: Los Angeles, CA
    Posts: 348

    Mosleyh,

    Guess how many shots (including a hand held Nadir patch shot) were used to create this panorama? If I remember correctly the camera was a 12mp camera. No far coaching if you know the answer.

    http://www.dlsphoto.net/FallColors20...akes/index.htm

    If you feel the "resolution" is good enough, I will share with you the equpiment I used. (hint: it was done with an R1 head)

    Dennis
  10. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by DennisS View Post
    Mosleyh,

    Guess how many shots (including a hand held Nadir patch shot) were used to create this panorama? If I remember correctly the camera was a 12mp camera. No far coaching if you know the answer.

    http://www.dlsphoto.net/FallColors20...akes/index.htm

    If you feel the "resolution" is good enough, I will share with you the equpiment I used. (hint: it was done with an R1 head)

    Dennis
    I'll guess 4. I know that in most cases, lots of resolution is overkill for VR panos. The problem is that I come from shooting multi-row panos with a robotic head, where resolution and detail are everything. Just looking for a happy medium, given that this is the kind of resolution I'm used to:

    http://imagesoftheupstate.com/KRPano/FP360/FP360.html

    yes, lots of uncorrected stitching errors. . .
  11. #11
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Sep 2009
    Location: Los Angeles, CA
    Posts: 348

    Mosleyh,
    .
    If you are going to use a 16mm lens, the R1 is NOT the pano head for you. You would be much happier with a NN5 style pano head (including the Nadir adapter). The R1 series is best used as a single row pano head. I own both and am speaking from experience. The R1 and your Sigma 8mm lens is great for pole panos. The NN5 (M1, NN4 etc...) is best for the 16mm lens.
    .
    My example is 4 around tilted up 5 degrees plus a hand held Nadir patch. It shows just how much detail you can retain with a single row pano.
    .
    Dennis
  12. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by DennisS View Post
    Mosleyh,
    .
    If you are going to use a 16mm lens, the R1 is NOT the pano head for you. You would be much happier with a NN5 style pano head (including the Nadir adapter). The R1 series is best used as a single row pano head. I own both and am speaking from experience. The R1 and your Sigma 8mm lens is great for pole panos. The NN5 (M1, NN4 etc...) is best for the 16mm lens.
    .
    My example is 4 around tilted up 5 degrees plus a hand held Nadir patch. It shows just how much detail you can retain with a single row pano.
    .
    Dennis
    Thanks Dennis. I have 2 questions:

    Are you shooting with a full frame sensor or a cropped sensor? Wondering if we're talking about the same FOV.

    Forgetting pole shooting for a moment, using a tripod, what do you see as the shortcomings of the R1/16mm combo?

    Thanks
  13. #13

    Mosleyh, If you are wanting to shoot full 360x180 panoramas indoors and out with the 16mm lens, then Dennis is right to suggest that a NN5 style of head would be the better choice. This would give simpler shooting and stitching. The spherical head is designed to rotate the camera about the no parallax point (entrance pupil) both horizontally and vertically. The R1 is only able to do this for horizontal rotation. You might try stitching a sample set of images taken with a D3 camera that can be downloaded from http://www.360precision.com/360/inde...amlensinfolist .
    .
    John
  14. #14
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Sep 2009
    Location: Los Angeles, CA
    Posts: 348

    Quote Originally Posted by mosleyh View Post
    Thanks Dennis. I have 2 questions:

    Are you shooting with a full frame sensor or a cropped sensor? Wondering if we're talking about the same FOV.

    Forgetting pole shooting for a moment, using a tripod, what do you see as the shortcomings of the R1/16mm combo?

    Thanks
    Mosleyh,
    .
    I use both a full frame (D800, D3s) and a cropped sensor (D300, NEX 5,7).
    .
    When shooting 4 around tilted up 5 degrees I use a combination that gives me a cropped circular image. With the full frame sensor I use a shaved Tokina 10-17mm lens set to 12.5. With the cropped sensor I use a Sigma 8mm. The circular image touches the top and bottom of the screen (180 degrees straight up and down) but has the two sides chopped off. The R1 or R10 is best for this method of shooting.
    .
    When shooting 6 around +Zenith + Nadir I use a Nikon 15mm lens on my D800 or a Nikon 10mm lens on my D300. The image is 180 degrees diagonally across the screen. The NN5 style pano head is best for this type of shooting.
    .
    If I understand correctly the 16mm lens on a full frame sensor creates a diagonal 180 degree image. Using an R1 makes absolutely no sense if you want to shoot full spherical. If all you want to shoot is single row, the R1 will work just fine. If you ever want to tilt up or down as a normal way of shooting, the NN5 type rotates the lens around the proper point in space making it much easier to stitch your images.
    .
    You can get the R1 to work for spherical panoramas, it is just a whole lot of effort when compared to a NN5.
    .
    Dennis
    Last edited by DennisS; 02-01-2013 at 09:07 AM.
  15. #15

    After having tried the R1 for a few days, I've concluded that Hindenhaag was right - the RS-1 is what I should have purchased. I think I might have figured that out sooner if the RS-1 was more prominently displayed on the store website. Oh well - live and learn. When all's said and done it looks like the cost will be roughly the same as the R-1 package too.

    Now all I have to do is wait for customer service to contact me about the return. They seem to have been MIA today.
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