Nikon D7000 + Sigma 10-20

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  1. Nikon D7000 + Sigma 10-20

    #1

    Hiya

    I am new here, so thanks for reading and hopefully sorting out

    I am looking at getting a Nodal Ninja NN3 MK II will my Nikon D7000 along with the Sigma 10-20 be okay for this set up, and if so just so that I do not have to check back again what would my settings be.

    Thanks so much

    Steve
  2. #2
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    Steve,

    Hi and welcome to the forum,

    http://wiki.panotools.org/Entrance_Pupil_Database

    In this database you can find the data you can use for settings. LRS = Lower Rail Setting is H + offset of NN3 vertical rail mark from CP-2 Position. H = 43 + 13 = LRS 56. This is also what I found with my equipment. URS = Upper Rail Setting: L1 = 40 for D7000 + L2: @zoom 10: 62, @zoom 14: 64, @zoom 20: 68. URS sigma 10-20 /Nikon D7000 : zoom 10 = 102mm, zoom 14 = 104mm, zoom 20 = 108mm.

    Always test settings with your own equipment:

    LRS: http://www.easypano.com/forum/displa...1&TopicID=4162
    URS: http://www.johnhpanos.com/epcalib.htm

    I am not quiet sure about the 108 mm LRS for Zoom 20 setting. This setting is right at the end of the rail and it might be too short. I'll test it tomorrow for you.

    You have to use the short end of the CP-2 Plate to the end of the rail.

    http://www.nodalninja.com/Manuals/CP2_qrg.pdf

    May be you should think about NN4 instead.

    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 03-10-2012 at 09:01 AM.
  3. #3

    Hello Steve,

    Informationon the NNP (Nodal point for the Sigma 10-20mm lens is here:
    http://www.hugha.co.uk/NodalPoint/Index.htm#Results_

    Best regards, Hugh.
  4. #4
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    Hi Steve,

    The last setting you can reach on NN3MK II upper rails is 106,5mm, which is too short for your lens @ zoom 20. Last setting for NN4 is 139mm, for NN5 is 149mm.

    May be you should contact Andrew Badders, The! Address IN UK For NN et al:

    UK Nodal Ninja Distributor
    My eCommerce Store: www.360tacticalvr.com
    My eBAY UK Store:http://stores.eBay.co.uk/360tacticalvr

    Give him a call and may be you can test both and send one back when there is no damage.

    Success,
    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 03-12-2012 at 05:42 AM.
  5. #5

    Thanks very much Heinz and Hugh, I do appreciate that.

    My NN3MKII arrives tomorrow.

    If at 20mm Heinz the upper rail is too short by 1.5mm is there any adapter I could add for that extra 1.5mm.

    How on earth did you come to those figures, Heinz, thanks for working it all out.
  6. #6
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    Hi,

    You could try to expand the range of the upper rail by using the T-Adapter Adapter: http://store.nodalninja.com/products...mm-offset.html.

    Another useful database for you: http://www.vrwave.com/panoramic-lens-database/sigma/

    To check the clicks around you need for you camera lens combination: http://www.nodalninja.com/pano_calculations.html

    The basic of databases was this one:http://www.swissarmyfork.com/lens_table_1.htm

    Most of the lenses are Nikon ones. Use "Entrance Pupil" as "NPP". A negative result means the NPP lies behind the sensor. Just study this table. Different lenses at different zoom settings. And the change of NPP to it. This will help you to find settings on your own. Begin at the front of the lens and work backwards. Try to use red or golden rings of the lenses to begin with.

    Using the Nadir Adapter on NN3, you have to reduce the LRS = Lower Rail Setting by 6mm. 61mm > 55mm.

    I have learned a lot from my colleagues: John, Hugh, Michel Thoby, Smooth, etc. And I follow forums. And I play around with Nodal Ninja and Nikon Equipment to try to get you on the road as soon as possible with less frustration specially in the beginning.

    That's what the forum stand for.

    I do not know about your general experience and knowledge. Cambridge in color is always worth the time to spend to improve: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/

    Feel free to ask, success,
    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 03-12-2012 at 09:39 PM.
  7. #7

    The key is to rotate the camera/lens around the imaginary point that all the rays theoretically converge at in the front of the lens (NNP).
    You may like to refer to:
    http://www.hugha.co.uk/Acrobat%20PDF...int-Clouds.pdf
    and
    http://www.hugha.co.uk/Panoramas/Panoramas4HDS.htm
    Although these are aimed at people using panoramic photography to add colour to HDS (Laser Scanner) point clouds they do contain quite a lot of general information that may be useful.

    I tend to take more images than most as I like a good overlap so that the software (e.g. PTGui) can generate lots of Control Points, so my suggestions tend to be more shots round than most of the tables recommend.
    My philosophy is that I have taken the trouble to get to the site with my gear and a few extra shots is not going to take much longer or much longer to process.
    My recommendations for 10mm and 20mm "normal" lenses is at:
    http://www.hugha.co.uk/NodalPoint/Sp...ormal-Lens.htm

    When your Nodal Ninja arrives it needs some assembly and setting up.
    I suggest that you start with an 8 (45°) detent ring and experiment at the 10mm end of the lens as this will give you less images to take and process.
    The important thing is to set it up so that the vertical axis of rotation passes through the centre of the lens when viewed from the front.
    I do this by eye (sometimes with some sort of makeshift plumb bob) and if you do this with a light source (e.g. window) behind the view finder, the centre of the lens appears as a bright dot of light.
    Also, that the vertical axis of rotation passes through the NNP when viewed from the side.

    Sigma makes two 10-20mm lenses and my data is for the f4-5.6 EX DC HSM lens.
    If this is the same as yours then the NNP is 6mm back towards the camera from the gold ring for the 10mm setting and on the gold ring if using it at 20mm.

    It depends on what you are making the panos for, but I would suggest that using the lens at 10mm will give you all the resolution you need to start with.

    The advice from Heinz is always good and I see he has mentioned using a T Adaptor to use the D7000 at the 20mm end of the zoom.
    From looking at the Internet it would seem that the D7000 is a little smaller than my D300.
    From what I can gauge with images from the Internet, the 1/4" fixing thread is a millimeter or two closer to the lens flange and the lens centre a millimeter of two closer to the base plate so you may be able to get good panoramas by having the camera right at the back of the top rail with the lens at 20mm.

    Although it is the generally accepted that it is important to get the lens so the NNP is exactly at the centre of the sphere of rotation I have found that it can sometimes be a matter of scale.
    If you are taking panos of small space, such as inside a car, then it is important that the camera is set up as accurately as possible, but if the subject matter is a least several meters away then the odd mm along the top rail may not be important.
    This is the case when shooting landscape panoramas hand held as described at:
    http://www.hugha.co.uk/Panoramas/PanoramasCreate.htm
    I cannot get my D300 back far enough along the top rail with the lens set at 20mm so that the gold ring lines up with the axis of rotation, so will set it up and have a look to see what the results are like when I have some time to play.

    There are three dimensions that govern the settings:
    One on the lens - the distance from the lens flange to the NNP, which is fixed for any given lens irrespective of camera body;
    Two on the camera - the horizontal distance from the lens flange to the 1/4" thread and the vertical distance from the base plate to the central axis of the lens, which varies from body to body.
    If there was a table for the two camera dimensions it would be easy to set up a body and lens and calculate the settings for a different body and same lens, but I asked Nikon if they had this data and was told they do not, but thought it might be a good idea for the future!
    I have started a new thread for this topic.

    Best regards, Hugh.
  8. #8

    Thanks very much everyone for all your help, someone in passing told me that at 10mm the 10-20mm might have difficulties in stitching the frames, so was thinking of using my 24-70 sigma instead. So my next question and sorry to bother you, could you please give me my upper rail setting for the 24-70mm set at 24mm only.

    The Sigma 24-70mm is 1:2.8 EX DG

    Thank you, you are very kind.

    Steve
    Last edited by BestLightImages; 03-15-2012 at 01:17 AM. Reason: added lens type
  9. #9
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    Steve,

    I personally should begin with the 10-20mm lens. For 24-70 you have to take much more pictures and that might rise the stitching problems with a lot of other problems that might occur shooting more shots or several rows.

    10-20 at zoom 10 gives an overlap of 22% with 6 shots around. To be sure the overlap should be around 25-30%. The amount of overlap depends on the sight you are shooting in case of lot of information in the area of overlap, 22 or even 20% might be enough. In case of blue sky you might get into trouble. To get more overlap you could shoot 8 stops around. Consult VRwave database.

    I am afraid there won't be too much info about NPP of Sigma 24-70mm lens. I could not find any info about this lens.

    Sucess,
    Heinz
  10. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by hindenhaag View Post
    Steve,

    I personally should begin with the 10-20mm lens. For 24-70 you have to take much more pictures and that might rise the stitching problems with a lot of other problems that might occur shooting more shots or several rows.

    10-20 at zoom 10 gives an overlap of 22% with 6 shots around. To be sure the overlap should be around 25-30%. The amount of overlap depends on the sight you are shooting in case of lot of information in the area of overlap, 22 or even 20% might be enough. In case of blue sky you might get into trouble. To get more overlap you could shoot 8 stops around. Consult VRwave database.
    Heinz
    Hello Steve,
    I concur with Heinz, start with the 10-20mm @ the 10mm end.
    I am not sure why you have been advised that the 10-20mm can have stitching difficulties as I have not experienced any such difficulties.
    One thing to be aware of is not to change the focal length between shots and a length of insulating tape holding the zoom ring in place will prevent it changing.
    Also, in theory the Sigma lens should be ideal for stitching as it has a single point where the rays entering the lens theoretically converge unlike fisheye lenses.
    On the previous subject of using the lens at the 20mm end, I have tested my Nikon 10.5mm fisheye with the lens 10mm in front and 10mm behind the correct top rail settings and they have stitched fine although the Control Point Results in PTGui are a little larger so I reckon you will find that the 1.5mm you cannot get on the top rail will not be a problem.
    The best thing is to get some images and see how you get on.
    By the way, what will you be stitching the images with?
    As mentioned, if you need help getting over the initial hurdles, just send an email.
    All the best, Hugh.
  11. #11

    Hiya Guys

    Thanks for that info....well I went out and shot some landscapes in the Lake District, the largest pano being 55 images (5 rows of 11) with the Sigma 10-20mm set at 14mm and using Autopano Giga they all have stitched together perfectly so thanks for all your help on this.

    My other concern now is the number of activations that my Nikon D7000 will be doing so will now be using my Nikon D200 along with the Sigma 10-20mm and you know what's coming Would you please be so kind as to give me my settings for this camera and the lens.

    One thing I would like to add that when attaching the upper rail to the base is the base setting taken from the middle of the upper rail upright or from one of the flanges where it joins the base.

    Thanks again and sorry I can't work out my settings for the D200 but would be so grateful for your help.

    Steve (now addicted to panos)
  12. #12
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    Steve,

    The foot of the vertical rail has longer and a shorter side. The longer side has to be put towards the lower rotator. The end of it is the reference point on the lower rail.

    The D7000 has an estimated lifetime of shutter release of 150000 releases.

    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 03-26-2012 at 06:09 AM.
  13. #13

    Many thanks Heinz much appreciated...you couldnt please work out my settings for the D200 and Sigma 10-20mm please.

    Thanks in advance.

    Steve
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