Longer Vertical Rail for M1

View Poll Results: Should Fanotec make longer vertical rail for M1?

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  • yes, lighter, cheaper, the better

    5 62.50%
  • no, I like using the nadir adapter.

    3 37.50%
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Thread: Longer Vertical Rail for M1

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  1. Longer Vertical Rail for M1

    #1
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
    Posts: 2,462
    Question

    Dear NN Ult M1 users,

    I need your input here. Currently, the vertical rail of M1 is not long enough for zenith shot. It requires the nadir adapter to increase the head room. This is my original design intention. The nadir adapter however, is quite heavy at 160g and comes at a price ($50 in a bundle, $89.95 separately). If I make the vertical rail longer, it should weigh just 30-50g more and cost $10-$20 more than the current vertical rail for M1S and M1L.
    I wonder if you will prefer a longer vertical rail instead.

    Thx a lot.

    Nick
    Last edited by nick fan; 01-09-2012 at 02:57 AM.



    Fanotec
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  2. #2

    Voted :) for longer rail ;)

    Vincèn



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  3. #3
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,741

    Hi Nick,

    I'd prefer a longer vertical rail because of weight.

    Heinz
  4. #4

    Since I use it for mosaics and not spherical panoramas, I prefer the shorter rail to keep down weight. But I would be no disaster if it was a little longer of course...
  5. #5
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Saddleworth UK
    Posts: 242

    It would seem reasonable to supply both alternatives. As the longer rail would be better for 360x180 and the shorter for mosaics.
    The fewer separate components and Joints used and the more compact the total device, the sturdier the function.
  6. #6
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,741

    Hi Terry,

    I think it is not a big problem to supply both alternatives. Plus Nick already has the shorter version in production. I just think of our distributors and resellers. What do they think of it? Just think about the great amount of lens rings they should have in stock.

    I agree with your comment about function. Might be the normal standard delivery is the new longer vertical rail, plus the vertical rail we have now with the hint " for Mosaics in first instance". Then the resellers only needs to have 1 "short vertical Rail" in stock, in case...

    I think most users will order the longer vertical rail.

    I tested a lot of Nikon bodies and lenses on M1-L. Most of them worked with the vertical rail we use right now Plus! Nadir Adapter. There are only some camera lens combinations where you can not shoot the Zenith at +90º Zenith because the camera bumbs on the side of the lower rail. If you want to avoid this, Nick has two chances: make a higher Nadir Adapter or a new longer rail. I would prefer the new longer rail.

    So it might be a good add on to ask: Do you have problems to shoot +90º Zenith with the normal M1-L vertical rail + Nadir Adapter? Which combination do you use?

    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 01-09-2012 at 07:10 AM.
  7. #7

    Quote Originally Posted by nick fan View Post
    Currently, the vertical rail of M1 is not long enough for zenith shot.
    This needs some sort of qualification, i.e for which lens on which camera, and just how long is long enough? It's certainly long enough for all the zenith shots I have wanted to take. For example, you can get up to around 100mm using a 70-100mm Canon lens on a 5DII. Assuming you were shooting a 360x180, this would produce a maximum equirectangular image size in excess of 4GP. Do many people really want to take such panoramas? I am sure many people will have good reason to prefer a longer rail while others would be happy with the present length. It might be a good idea to ask those who want a longer rail how much longer they need it to be. While I am generally content with the current length, I think a longer rail should be available as an alternative. If it has to be one or the other, then I suppose I would opt for the longer rail.
    John

    John
  8. #8
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Sep 2009
    Location: Los Angeles, CA
    Posts: 359

    Since I only use a Nikon 10.5 lens, I could use a SHORTER vertical rail. A longer rail would only add weight and put the camera even further up in the air.

    If you shoot with the hand grip part of the camera up, is it not easier to rotate for the Zenith? If you shoot with the grip part down, I can see where there would be clearance issues.

    You could make the vertical rail modular just like the other two rails.
  9. #9

    IMO just making a block similar to Nadir Adapter that secures itself (arca?) to base of vertical rail or to lower rail. A few customers now merely purchase the Nadir Adapter for the sole purpose raising height of vertical rail.

    Bill
  10. #10

    It would also help if the Arca clamp knob at the end of the upper rail didn't stick out quite so far. For my camera, 15mm shaved off the knob would allow the camera to be shifted back 15mm, which would be a useful improvement. (The nadir adapter gives an extra 35mm). A smaller knob would probably only be practical if it was operated with a hex key, or maybe a fold down wire finger grip as used on Manfrotto adapters, or a coin slot would be ok.

    John
  11. #11
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,741

    Bill et al,

    for me the basic question behind this is the question "Do you order the Nadir Adapter to take the Nadir Shots in an easy workflow?" Or do you order it "Because of Raise in Vertical Height in the first point of view"?.

    Second Question: Using the Nadir Adapter, with which camera lens combination do you need a longer vertical rail to be able to shot a +90º Zenith shot without the camera being stopped by lower rail? With the consequence to shoot 2x with around +60º Pitch?

    Two Basic Questions: Whom of those using the current vertical rail have problems to shoot a +90º Zenith shot without using the Nadir Adapter which will add space in vertical height. Please add info about the equipment used. They will need a longer vertical rail because they do not like to use the Nadir Adapter to increase vertical Height. They would prefer to spend up to 20$ instead of buying a Nadir Adapter with Higher Price.

    Those who have decided to use the advantage of the Nadir Adapter: How many of you will ask for a longer vertical rail to be able to shoot the Zenith at +90º because the camera is bumping against the side of lower rail? Plus:will longer vertical rail solve this problem? What combination has been used?

    Till now I succeed in most situations besides some very special Nikkor Lenses.

    The choice, "I prefer to take the Nadir Adapter" for me does not answer the basics of the question. Basically I prefer to use a Nadir Adapter on all sorts of NN Panoheads. NN3 - M1-L. But there are a few cases left with Nikon Equipment I would love a longer vertical rail to be able to shoot +90º Zenith. I would prefer the choice of a longer vertical rail. The only alternative for me would be an "Add on Vertical Height Plate" below the present Nadir Adapter. I personally would prefer a longer vertical rail I would buy separately as add on in case I need it. But this is me personally and my personal equipment

    A basic question around this would be: How many percent of your customers prefer a Nadir Adapter to shoot Nadir1 and Nadir2 besides other preferences in vertical height options to take the Nadir Shots?

    Do we like Nick to produce a higher Nadir Adapter or do we prefer him to produce a longer vertical rail to solve the Zenith Shot problems in some few cases?

    Regards,
    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 01-09-2012 at 10:49 AM.
  12. #12

    A long neck ball head can take the place of both a leveler and a nadir adapter.
  13. #13
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,741

    Demon,

    This thread's question tries to solve the question about preferences of users about these two questions: what should Nick produce: higher Nadir Adapter in place of a higher Vertical Rail. We do not talk about the use of a ball head.

    All the best to you for 2012.

    Cheers,
    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 01-09-2012 at 11:15 AM.
  14. #14
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
    Posts: 2,462

    Quote Originally Posted by hindenhaag View Post
    Bill et al,

    for me the basic question behind this is the question "Do you order the Nadir Adapter to take the Nadir Shots in an easy workflow?" Or do you order it "Because of Raise in Vertical Height in the first point of view"?.

    Second Question: Using the Nadir Adapter, with which camera lens combination do you need a longer vertical rail to be able to shot a +90º Zenith shot without the camera being stopped by lower rail? With the consequence to shoot 2x with around +60º Pitch?

    Two Basic Questions: Whom of those using the current vertical rail have problems to shoot a +90º Zenith shot without using the Nadir Adapter which will add space in vertical height. Please add info about the equipment used. They will need a longer vertical rail because they do not like to use the Nadir Adapter to increase vertical Height. They would prefer to spend up to 20$ instead of buying a Nadir Adapter with Higher Price.

    Those who have decided to use the advantage of the Nadir Adapter: How many of you will ask for a longer vertical rail to be able to shoot the Zenith at +90º because the camera is bumping against the side of lower rail? Plus:will longer vertical rail solve this problem? What combination has been used?

    Till now I succeed in most situations besides some very special Nikkor Lenses.

    The choice, "I prefer to take the Nadir Adapter" for me does not answer the basics of the question. Basically I prefer to use a Nadir Adapter on all sorts of NN Panoheads. NN3 - M1-L. But there are a few cases left with Nikon Equipment I would love a longer vertical rail to be able to shoot +90º Zenith. I would prefer the choice of a longer vertical rail. The only alternative for me would be an "Add on Vertical Height Plate" below the present Nadir Adapter. I personally would prefer a longer vertical rail I would buy separately as add on in case I need it. But this is me personally and my personal equipment

    A basic question around this would be: How many percent of your customers prefer a Nadir Adapter to shoot Nadir1 and Nadir2 besides other preferences in vertical height options to take the Nadir Shots?

    Do we like Nick to produce a higher Nadir Adapter or do we prefer him to produce a longer vertical rail to solve the Zenith Shot problems in some few cases?

    Regards,
    Heinz
    Yes, that is my question. With the nadir adapter, the vertical rail is tall enough. For some rare cases, I can make taller nadir adapter. But if the nadir adapter serves no other purpose than raising the head room for the user. Then we should look for more economical solution. Either by means of a light weight extender or a longer vertical rail.

    Nick
    Last edited by nick fan; 01-09-2012 at 08:16 PM.



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  15. #15
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Jan 2012
    Location: Fort Worth, TX USA
    Posts: 4

    I really need the longer rail. I just bought the M1L and the nadir adapter is not in stock. I have no way of getting my zenith shot with this unit. Not good. This is critical for the technical type of sphericals I shoot inside of various aircraft compartments. I have a shoot next week and it seems I'm screwed. Access to the aircraft is very time-limited and this is not going to make me look good in front of my clients. Also, it seems the upper rail should be a 210mm unit to accommodate more lenses. These are two very limiting factors in my opinion. I wish I had known about them before I purchased.

    Steve

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