The NN Mysteries of Sony NEX-5 for Demon Duck

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  1. The NN Mysteries of Sony NEX-5 for Demon Duck

    #1
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    Hi Demon,

    your problems seem to be solved:

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    The plates stand out 0.65", 16mm. This is done to use full length of the base plate for the upper rail and keep the thin plate moveable to adapt it to your own camera, same as normal CP-2 plate principle.

    The top plate touches the camera bodies front by cutting out the lens circle and a corner for the outstanding button.

    If you like it, IM your address and I can send it on friday. For nothing to get you out of frustration. May be you could send your CP-2 in reverse to me.

    If you like changes, I can try to fit it.

    Cheers,
    Heinz

    BTW: Body arrived at 5.30 pm, now it is nearly 8pm.
  2. #2

    Quote Originally Posted by hindenhaag View Post
    Hi Demon,

    your problems seem to be solved:

    Attachment 327Attachment 328Attachment 329Attachment 330Attachment 331

    The plates stand out 0.65", 16mm. This is done to use full length of the base plate for the upper rail and keep the thin plate moveable to adapt it to your own camera, same as normal CP-2 plate principle.

    The top plate touches the camera bodies front by cutting out the lens circle and a corner for the outstanding button.

    If you like it, IM your address and I can send it on friday. For nothing to get you out of frustration. May be you could send your CP-2 in reverse to me.

    If you like changes, I can try to fit it.

    Cheers,
    Heinz

    BTW: Body arrived at 5.30 pm, now it is nearly 8pm.
    I like the idea. I think you've made a reasonable prototype that could be turned into a useful camera plate for a lot of cameras. The final version would be shortened a bit and the mounting screw that holds the camera to the plate could be moved back a bit. The torque is from the lens so more plate in front of the tripod mount would be a more stable configuration. Or you could turn the plate around and reverse the sliding plate. That would be a better configuration for an NN3. The NEX + Samyang 8mm is really long and sits very far back on the upper rail.

    Do I want that plate? Maybe. I've ordered an xCP -- the discontinued camera plate. It's smaller but thicker so it gives the lens proper clearance. I've an idea to make that work with the NEX bottom. I want to try my idea first. If that doesn't work, I'll contact you and see if you can make me one like your prototype.
    Last edited by DemonDuck; 09-21-2011 at 08:25 PM.
  3. #3
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    Demon,

    xCP Plate and Cp-2 base plate have the same dimension and CP has same height as xCP. So lens clearance is the same in height. This construction keeps the lens flange free at the connection side. So there should not be any problem in touching the lens.

    This "bloody camera body bottom" is curved all around the tripod screw. So the camera front site besides the lens flange is the only point to fix a anti rotation connection and this has to be as wide as CP-2 thin plate. You can not use the camera bodies side either cause your have a connection - usb or something - close to the bottom. Everything in front and behind the "small tripod mount Hill" is curved and even the spaces are not square. I think there is a possibility to change the tripod mount position to the lens flange site and shorten the base plate to cameras back. I'll think about it and will contact Nick. The base plate is hollow at several places and there is only little room for new threads. I have to get a BWS thread in 3/8 and 1/4 anyway on friday. So let us see. Looking forward to your solution.

    I am still waiting for the lens and adapter, so I can send you mine and make a new one for me.

    Heinz
  4. #4

    Yeah, the bottom of the NEX looks like an after thought. The NEX was not designed for tripod use.

    And that's why I suggested, "...make a lens ring adapter for the NN3/4/5 you would save a lot of people a lot of grief. Mounting a camera on an NN3/4/5 is still the weak link in your product line...."

    and

    "...just a camera plate like the xCP that has four holes in it that can be used to attach to the lens ring -- which has four holes in it?..."

    A lens like a Samyang 8mm fisheye is a lot heavier than the NEX. I worry that all that torque would stress the tripod hole too much on the NEX which doesn't look like it has a very tough body.
  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDuck View Post
    And that's why I suggested, "...make a lens ring adapter for the NN3/4/5 you would save a lot of people a lot of grief. Mounting a camera on an NN3/4/5 is still the weak link in your product line...."

    and

    "...just a camera plate like the xCP that has four holes in it that can be used to attach to the lens ring -- which has four holes in it?..."

    A lens like a Samyang 8mm fisheye is a lot heavier than the NEX. I worry that all that torque would stress the tripod hole too much on the NEX which doesn't look like it has a very tough body.
    Such a lens ring will have the same cost of our regular one. Is that what you want? I can try make a few.

    nick



    Fanotec
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  6. #6

    Nick, what I'm suggesting is an NN3 camera plate that is compatible with your standard lens ring. The lens ring has 4 holes which screw into the lens ring plate. The plate fits into the Arca QR.

    What I'm suggesting is an xCP style plate with 4 holes in it like the existing lens ring plate. The xCP with the lens ring attached can then be mounted in the usual way on the upper arm of the NN3 attaching the lens ring to the NN3. The lens ring costs $80 and the plastic insert costs $15. The xCP plate costs $15.

    What I don't know is if the xCP plate and the lens ring will give enough clearance between the NEX and the upper arm of the NN3.

    I'm not suggesting a different lens ring. I'm suggesting a different lens ring plate.
  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDuck View Post
    Nick, what I'm suggesting is an NN3 camera plate that is compatible with your standard lens ring. The lens ring has 4 holes which screw into the lens ring plate. The plate fits into the Arca QR.

    What I'm suggesting is an xCP style plate with 4 holes in it like the existing lens ring plate. The xCP with the lens ring attached can then be mounted in the usual way on the upper arm of the NN3 attaching the lens ring to the NN3. The lens ring costs $80 and the plastic insert costs $15. The xCP plate costs $15.

    What I don't know is if the xCP plate and the lens ring will give enough clearance between the NEX and the upper arm of the NN3.

    I'm not suggesting a different lens ring. I'm suggesting a different lens ring plate.
    xCP is too wide. It will interfere with the lens ring knob. Anyway, to adapt it to work with lens ring will require a new mold which is not viable for the small number of users. So CNC machining is the only option. Lens ring with such plate will cost $109.95.

    nick



    Fanotec
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  8. #8
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    Hi,

    Think it is something like this what he is looking for: I changed 3/8 rail plate

    http://store.nodalninja.com/products...%7D8-inch.html

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    As Nick said, you have to cut out the lens ring knob besides drilling 4 holes.

    I have to get some different screws tomorrow and fine tune.

    So actually a normal lens ring could come with an additional plate to either fix it to R1/R10 with the normal plate or to NN3, NN4, NN5 with an extra plate similar to the one shown.

    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 09-22-2011 at 11:10 AM.
  9. #9

    Yes, that's what I'm suggesting. It's a one piece part with a slightly unusual shape. The critical thing is to position the four holes accurately so the lens is perfectly aligned with the upper arm pivot. If I had the tools and a work shop, I could do it myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by hindenhaag View Post
    Hi,
    So actually a normal lens ring could come with an additional plate to either fix it to R1/R10 with the normal plate or to NN3, NN4, NN5 with an extra plate similar to the one shown.

    Heinz
    Finally, somebody gets the idea that I've been talking about for years.
    Last edited by DemonDuck; 09-22-2011 at 12:19 PM.
  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hindenhaag View Post
    Hi,

    Think it is something like this what he is looking for: I changed 3/8 rail plate

    http://store.nodalninja.com/products...%7D8-inch.html

    Attachment 332Attachment 333Attachment 334

    As Nick said, you have to cut out the lens ring knob besides drilling 4 holes.

    I have to get some different screws tomorrow and fine tune.

    So actually a normal lens ring could come with an additional plate to either fix it to R1/R10 with the normal plate or to NN3, NN4, NN5 with an extra plate similar to the one shown.

    Heinz
    Hi Heinz,

    you seem to have some rapid prototyping tools available.
    Welcome to join the World DIY Alliance. LOL

    nick



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  11. #11
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    Demon,

    What sort of lens do you like to use? Samyang 7.5? I used a Samyang 8mm/f3.5 to test it. The length of the plate is just at the border to be seen in the lens. I think it has to be shorter for most of the fisheye lenses similar to the one of the original plate of the lens ring.

    The basic part of the lens ring foot, part with the knob, adds round 1cm up to the plate connection. Tripod mount of NEX-5 is in line with lens flange. So this system will add around 13mm space to upper rail. So it should work with free space.

    I just checked my fisheye lenses with lens ring. The original foot of Nikkor 10.5, 16 has a length of 35mm, Sigma 8/f3.5 has one of 40mm. Samyang 8 is longer too. I tested several Nikon camera bodies on NN3, NN4, NN5 with CP-2 camera plate. It worked from D3100 - D3. But not on D5100, because the LCD is moving. This was the first time I had to alter the top plate of CP-2 to fixit to the camera body. Similar to the changes for NEX-5 for the front side.

    What I do want to explain: It is not just " a plate with four holes" to add to the lens ring. Obviously there have to be different lengths for different lens rings for the 4/3 footplate. To make a "universal one" Nick has to check all the different camera bodies and lenses. Most of the time he has to buy them and sell them later with loss of money. To make an over all design.

    Right now the 4/3 market seems to boom. So might be there is more need for special 4/3 equipment.

    Another argument that has not been mentioned in all these discussions on NN forum and on Panoguide: We "expect" that a good reseller like our three brilliant EU distributors Andrew, Mauro and Vincen have "everything in stock" or deliver within a week or two. They do!! When I ask my best NL NN reseller, most of the parts besides basics have to be ordered specially. 4-6 weeks and hopefully I get what I wanted. Right now it is around 20 lens rings our big 3 have in stock, plus 8-15 Canon, Panasonic was new, now Samyang 7.5, in some time a ring for Samyang 8mm for NEX-5-7-x? I believe you can follow my argument. All this stand behind a "simple plate with 4 holes".

    Demon, I understand you, your wishes and I think I did not miss a single post of you about this theme. I am sure a lot of people are following this discussion. Before I stepped a bit deeper into this theme of panos, trying to find out right settings, how do you use this and that accessory, which QRS? Etc. I dare to say now I understand both sides of the coin. The user who wants to get parts for his own equipment, on the other side the work to set up a manual, get the right pics on e-store, videos, and to update the whole hardware. Not only for Nick and Bill, but also for all distributors and resellers.

    This is not personally to you, I understand you very well, but I feel something I'd like to explain to a lot of other users as well.

    Now Demon, which lens? And I try to find a solution for you. And me as well. I have a xcp, cp-2 and some spare parts to try to find a solution. May be we should try to find some friends with a "garage" in our countries to do some very specials. DennisS mentioned he would set up some lens rings for NEX-5 when I remember well.

    And thx to you and all the others to take the time to listen to talk about "the making of a simple plate with 4 holes". 'The making of..." shows us a lot of background and work plus invested money in advance both for NN, Fanotec, as well as for distributors and resellers.
    But believe me, the basic people involved in this system do there best to serve us two, normal users. But based on economics.
    All of us learn from these discussions and this is the reason why I like this forum. Let's try to establish a NN-App community for very special solutions? Thread : "unused garage at home ready to machine exotic parts for NN basic exotic add-on cause I like to do this work"? I know there are several colleagues in NL that have a "garage".

    Anyway, tell me what combination you want to use and we'll try to find a solution for you Demon.

    Have a nice evening, and thx for your engagement.
    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 09-22-2011 at 01:49 PM.
  12. #12

    I understand all you said about parts not being universal and that some customization has to be done to fit all the lenses to all the cameras. But your simple camera plate prototype is a very good start. Given all the different accessories for all the different pano heads NN makes, I am surprised that adding 4 holes to an existing plate and grinding a small portion of the plate away is so difficult. And why don't you take the knob off and use a hex bolt? Then you wouldn't have to grind anything.

    Right now, I have a Samyang 8mm and a NEX 5. I don't know if I will keep either of them. Or I might keep the NEX 5 and get Samyang's next version of their 8mm for NEX. Samyang says they are about to release a NEX version (E-mount) version of their 8mm fisheye that is different from the E-mount version that was built for the Sony VG10.

    Or I might get wide angle lens for my NEX 5. Samyang makes an interesting 14mm fisheye which is even bigger than the 8mm. I think a short lens that is not a fisheye gives better image quality although it takes more shots. Or I might find a good deal on eBay for a lens that I don't even know about. There's all kinds of adapters for the NEX.

    Or I might sell everything and take up knitting....

    So I'm in a state of flux (change) right now trying to figure out which way to go. And I don't have a lot of money. Pano's are just a hobby -- I'm not a pro.
  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDuck View Post
    Given all the different accessories for all the different pano heads NN makes, I am surprised that adding 4 holes to an existing plate and grinding a small portion of the plate away is so difficult. And why don't you take the knob off and use a hex bolt? Then you wouldn't have to grind anything.
    why didn't I make it? It is because I only receive one single customer requesting it. Many are satisfied with QR clamp+lens ring option. I have an impression that you are looking for more universal and affordable options.
    Modifying a current camera plate and attach it to the lens ring just ruin the lens ring design. Something too ugly for me. We will make a new plate for your purpose. But I think only a few customers will want this. We will be offering NN4 with QRC-40B at upper rotator to use lens ring directly without upper rail. Same can be done for new NN3. Old ones will be difficult because there were a few variations in NN3 upper rotator dimensions.


    nick



    Fanotec
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  14. #14

    Quote Originally Posted by nick fan View Post
    We will make a new plate for your purpose. But I think only a few customers will want this. We will be offering NN4 with QRC-40B at upper rotator to use lens ring directly without upper rail. Same can be done for new NN3. Old ones will be difficult because there were a few variations in NN3 upper rotator dimensions.
    nick
    I thought I was working with Heinz on this but I appreciate that you would take the time to do it. But if you could quote me a price for this custom work first, that would avoid any financial shocks. I don't have a lot of money. The price for a lens ring is already very expensive for me.

    This is the first I've heard about the ORC-40B being used directly on the NN3 upper rotator. That sounds like a very good solution -- but I have an old NN3 and the custom camera plate will probably be cheaper I hope -- I would rather use the camera plate.

    Heinz -- what about taking off the knob and using a hex head screw instead?? Then maybe no grinding?
    Last edited by DemonDuck; 09-23-2011 at 04:10 AM.
  15. #15
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    Demon, this screw has a built in system: it opens and closes the lens ring, so not just a single screw but a assembled system of parts. So you should leave this as it is designed. Grinding is no problem. Let's just wait for the samyang 7.5 lens to arrive to check your plate design. I hope end of next week.

    Send an IM with your email address.

    Nick has mentioned this before that he will change to QRC-40B to be usable on all NN's.

    Heinz
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