Will the NN4 support a 5D MkII and 24-70 lens?

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  1. Will the NN4 support a 5D MkII and 24-70 lens?

    #1

    HI guys... Im putting together a proposal for work to do some panoramas. We've got a Canon 5D MkII body and a 24-70 EF L series lens, and I'm having a hard time deciding if the NN4 or the M1L is the way to go...

    I like the idea of a few accessories as well- specifically the arca plate and quick release, and the Nadir adapter. Looks like the Nadir adapter would be compatible with the NN4 only..

    any suggestions for the ultimate pano head setup for a Canon 5D MkII/ 24-70mm combo would be really appreciated! Pretend you could just put together a christmas wishlist of nodal ninja products

    In my personal time, Im a NN3 user and I absolutely love the product. so, I'd really love to stick with NN for this work proposal.. Any help would be really appreciated! I'd love to get the proposal in and get approval as soon as possible :)
    Cheers
  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by neeko1979 View Post
    HI guys... Im putting together a proposal for work to do some panoramas. We've got a Canon 5D MkII body and a 24-70 EF L series lens, and I'm having a hard time deciding if the NN4 or the M1L is the way to go...

    I like the idea of a few accessories as well- specifically the arca plate and quick release, and the Nadir adapter. Looks like the Nadir adapter would be compatible with the NN4 only..

    any suggestions for the ultimate pano head setup for a Canon 5D MkII/ 24-70mm combo would be really appreciated! Pretend you could just put together a christmas wishlist of nodal ninja products

    In my personal time, Im a NN3 user and I absolutely love the product. so, I'd really love to stick with NN for this work proposal.. Any help would be really appreciated! I'd love to get the proposal in and get approval as soon as possible :)
    Cheers
    The upper rail may not support 24-70mm at 24mm. for this breast, M1L is the way to go. You may want to use MFR-210 for the upper rail. if you use battery grip, you need 2 MFR-210.

    Nick



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  3. #3
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    Hi,

    The problem I see is your 24-70mm lens. I am Nikonian, the Nikkor 24-70 mm lens with D3 has an upper rail setting @ zoom 24 at 147 on the upper rail. I do not know about NPP of the canon lens. I used the nikkor on NN5 without problems, but NN4 rails are shorter. So this models steps down from NN5. Because of this it got the name NN4. Great panohead. To be free for the future, I would go for the M1-L Pre Production + RD16, I got one, it is a great panohead. Special price right now on the M1-L Pre. I am testing settings right now for Nikon equipment, nothing wrong with quality or anything else. Very good design and I feel it will fit to your needs better than NN4. Cause I own NN3 MKII, NN5, NN4, R1, M1-L tested with Nikon FX and DX bodies from fisheye lenses to the big boys 14-24, 70-200, I fell I can give you an advice based on experience.

    There will be a special Nadir Adapter for M1 as well in the near future. I would add an EZ-Leveller II cause not all of the tripods have legs that "fall out on it's own" once the leg clips are opened. Specially when you use Nadir Adapters, this is the easiest way to re level the panohead because of added torque forces.

    Hope this helps a little bit,
    Heinz

    Ups, Nick was quicker..... but in total he mentioned the same problem....

    Nick is right, for nikkor 24-70 the length of the normal upper rail is too short cause the upper rail set needed for Nikkor 24-70 nearly glides out of the clamp for the upper rail, behind the middle of the clamp and behind the safety pin. I will order a MRF210 to test it.

    This is what Nick means: http://store.nodalninja.com/products...ail-210mm.html

    Because it is a modular system, you can use the rails at any place.

    @Nick and Bill: using the shop site, I do not find the code "MRF 210". Only on the link site itself you can see the "SKU". Might be good to change the name to M1-Lower/Upper-Rail-210mm. May be some more lenses need a longer rail. I will let you when my Nikon tests are complete.
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 06-16-2011 at 04:08 AM.
  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick fan View Post
    The upper rail may not support 24-70mm at 24mm. for this breast, M1L is the way to go. You may want to use MFR-210 for the upper rail. if you use battery grip, you need 2 MFR-210.

    Nick
    I think, this is not true. If you want to use Canon 24-70 at 24mm you mast have 24-26sm upper (aka nodal) rail. The exact size depends from size of tilt clamp and size of connector from upper rail to camera (double clamp, for example). But 21 sm it isn't enough.
    I use 30sm rail:
  5. #5

    thanks guys for the quick responses!!
    Ok, this makes sense.. the problem i thought I might have is with the 24-70, which actually extends to its longest at the widest (24mm) focal length. plus its heavy as

    I guess I've got to spend a little time looking at the M1L shop page, because i didnt ralize you could order different upper rails.. but i guess it makes sense, its called "modular" (yes, i just looked up that word on dictionary dot com)

    I dont have the lens in front of me, but Im pretty sure its already at 99mm at 70mm focal length, so it could very nearly double in size at its widest. in which case, I may need a longer upper rail.. I may just have to order both rails if approved!
  6. #6

    hey, just a quick second question... I dont see "MFR-210" availabel from the online store... should i be looking somewhere else?
  7. #7

    ok, so im guessing you mean to use the 210mm "LOWER" rail in the UPPER rail position... perhaps?
  8. #8
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    Valent,
    Thx for your input. if your NPP is correct. Then MFR-210 should fit snugly.

    neeko,
    yes, MFR-210 can be used as the upper or lower rail. If you don't use a battery grip, you just need to use the MFR-170 as the lower rail and use the MFR-210 as the upper rail. To use the max length of the rail you will need to mount the QRC-40A via 2 holes at the end of rail. This give you extra 10mm. You should request QRC-65 for the upper rotator clamp too. We use it for some of pre-production units. but it will be revert to QRC-55 when stock is depleted. if it turns out that you need longer rail, we will be making them for stereo photography too.


    Nick



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  9. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by hindenhaag View Post
    Hi,

    The problem I see is your 24-70mm lens. I am Nikonian, the Nikkor 24-70 mm lens with D3 has an upper rail setting @ zoom 24 at 147 on the upper rail. I do not know about NPP of the canon lens. I used the nikkor on NN5 without problems, but NN4 rails are shorter. So this models steps down from NN5. Because of this it got the name NN4. Great panohead. To be free for the future, I would go for the M1-L Pre Production + RD16, I got one, it is a great panohead. Special price right now on the M1-L Pre. I am testing settings right now for Nikon equipment, nothing wrong with quality or anything else. Very good design and I feel it will fit to your needs better than NN4. Cause I own NN3 MKII, NN5, NN4, R1, M1-L tested with Nikon FX and DX bodies from fisheye lenses to the big boys 14-24, 70-200, I fell I can give you an advice based on experience.

    There will be a special Nadir Adapter for M1 as well in the near future. I would add an EZ-Leveller II cause not all of the tripods have legs that "fall out on it's own" once the leg clips are opened. Specially when you use Nadir Adapters, this is the easiest way to re level the panohead because of added torque forces.

    Hope this helps a little bit,
    Heinz

    Ups, Nick was quicker..... but in total he mentioned the same problem....

    Nick is right, for nikkor 24-70 the length of the normal upper rail is too short cause the upper rail set needed for Nikkor 24-70 nearly glides out of the clamp for the upper rail, behind the middle of the clamp and behind the safety pin. I will order a MRF210 to test it.

    This is what Nick means: http://store.nodalninja.com/products...ail-210mm.html

    Because it is a modular system, you can use the rails at any place.

    @Nick and Bill: using the shop site, I do not find the code "MRF 210". Only on the link site itself you can see the "SKU". Might be good to change the name to M1-Lower/Upper-Rail-210mm. May be some more lenses need a longer rail. I will let you when my Nikon tests are complete.
    Would this also apply to a Nikon D700 w/Nikor 24-70 f2.8 lens, thus making it a poor candidate for a NN4? Not looking to shoot 360 degree panos, just multi-row mosaics to get more megapixels. I've been looking at a NN4 w/RD16 but after reading this thread I have doubts.

    I don't use the optional battery grip, however I do use a Really Right Stuff L-plate on the camera and would like to continue using it with a NN4 or M1. Is that possible?

    Regards,
    Frank
  10. #10
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    Hi Frankster and welcome to the forum,

    Delicate question cause we are talking about the far end rail settings. No problem on NN5, but NN4 upper rail is shorter. Nikkor 24-70mm/f2.8 lens is the only lens I have tested so far up to 70-200mm that asks this far end setting. In combination with your L-Plate I have to check if there is enough room to reach the 147 URS = upper rail setting for D3. So I will check the D700 24-70mm/f2.8 settings this afternoon for you. I will let you know and then we will know which is the right panohead for you. You can use the L-Plate with both of the systems.

    Regards,
    Heinz
  11. #11

    Hi Heinz,

    Thank you for looking into this for me. It seems my camera/lens combination is a borderline case. Never having used a panohead before, I'm wondering if the URS you mentioned becomes more critical as the focal length for this zoom lens becomes shorter, which in turn causes the physical length of the lens to become longer. For example, at a 24mm focal length the physical length of this lens is 15mm longer than when it's set at the 35mm focal length.

    I ask because, unlike most people, I'm not interested in 360 degree panos. I'm more interested in taking mosaics of a scene originally framed with this particular lens, which would require using its longer focal lengths. For example, I may originally frame a scene using 24mm, but would use 35mm or a longer focal length to actually take the mosaics (depending on the megapixels I wanted in the stitched composite). IOW It's unlikely that I would ever use the 24mm setting (or even 28mm) with this lens once the camera is mounted on the panohead. Should I ever have a need to use those shorter focal lengths on the panohead, I could always use my 28mm f2.8 prime lens which is physically much shorter (appx 100mm shorter) than the 24-70 zoom.

    Would this not make a notable difference in the far end rail settings you are looking into? Perhaps even the NN4 would suffice provided I limit the use of the 24-70 lens to 35mm or greater.

    Regards,
    Frank
  12. #12
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    Frank,

    Actually this lens works down with URS while the focal length raises. @zoom 70 LRS is 122 with D3. I have to check the D700 settings for you tomorrow cause of time today. I left the map in the office.

    Yes, this makes the difference. NN4 would fit not using zoom 24 or 28, with the rest well. To use the L-Plate, you have to use the NN Arca Style Clamp on the upper rail instead of the normal CP-2 camera Plate. This will change your LRS = lower rail setting round about +11mm cause it adds thickness.

    http://store.nodalninja.com/products...ase-Clamp.html

    Cause you seem to use longer focus lenses rather than fisheye lenses, I am thinking of the upper rotator intervals of NN4. This will be 15° steps. Longer focal length settings sometimes ask smaller pitch settings, +37.5° for example or a row at +5°. In this case you have to change the basic horizontal set of the upper rail from 0° to +5° for example. Then it steps in 15° intervals from this set up.

    M1 has 7.5° built in upper rotator steps. If you like to be free to set up even xx.2,5° steps on the upper rotator, and be free to use lenses up to 70-200, a very good alternative would be the NN5 irr RD16 for nearly the same price as NN4.

    http://store.nodalninja.com/products...IRREGULAR.html

    Besides your decision, I'd add an EZ-Leveller II to my order. You can do without it, but it makes life so much easier.

    I'll check the D700 settings anyway for you.

    Cheers,
    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 06-19-2011 at 08:52 AM.
  13. #13
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    Frank,

    The last URS for NN4 with CP-2 is 139mm, With NN Arca Style Clamp you need for the L-Plate is 133.5mm.

    Heinz
  14. #14

    Thanks, Heinz. You are beginning to read my mind as I've had several questions about clamping reserved for another time in another thread. I suppose now is a good time to ask them.

    Quote Originally Posted by hindenhaag View Post
    Yes, this makes the difference. NN4 would fit not using zoom 24 or 28, with the rest well. To use the L-Plate, you have to use the NN Arca Style Clamp on the upper rail instead of the normal CP-2 camera Plate. This will change your LRS = lower rail setting round about +11mm cause it adds thickness.

    http://store.nodalninja.com/products...ase-Clamp.html
    Could I use the RRS clamp shown below (with optional reducer bushing) instead of the one in your link?

    B2 LR II: 60mm LR clamp with dual mount
    http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductD...ith-dual-mount

    Although shown on RRS's site as being 15mm thick, once mated with the L-plate dovetail it adds the same 11mm of thickness (4mm less due to dovetail fit judging from my existing RRS lever clamp). So additional thickness shouldn't be a concern.

    The only reason I ask this is because I'm concerned about how well the ASQRC-2 would fit the RRS L-plate. RRS says they have no experience with that clamp and could not vouch for the fit on their L-plate. Although I wouldn't have to worry about the RRS clamp holding the RRS plate insecurely, my new worry would be how securely the RRS clamp would fasten to the NN upper rail, particularly with regard to twisting. Do you have any experience fastening that clamp to a NN upper rail? And if it does fit securely, would it fit all of the NN's discussed so far or just certain models?

    You seem more confident than RRS about the ASQRC-2 and the RRS L-plate fitting securely. I don't want my camera to slip out of the clamp. In your experience do I have any "real" reason for concern? Perhaps the ASQRC-2 fits great but RRS is just trying to sell me another clamp :-)

    Cause you seem to use longer focus lenses rather than fisheye lenses, I am thinking of the upper rotator intervals of NN4. This will be 15° steps. Longer focal length settings sometimes ask smaller pitch settings, +37.5° for example or a row at +5°. In this case you have to change the basic horizontal set of the upper rail from 0° to +5° for example. Then it steps in 15° intervals from this set up.
    Is the offset mentioned in your product descriptions the same as the horizontal set? If so, I've never really understood it. I've assumed 15° is the default upper rotator steps for the NN4. Is this extra horizontal set adjustment a way of adding/subtracting 5° to/from the default so one could end up with a NET 10° or 20° of downward rotation as opposed to being stuck with 15° all the time? And if so, would I be correct in assuming that one would have to change both the horizontal set adjustment (offset?) as well as the rotator position each time the camera is moved downwards to the next row of images? If my thinking is correct, it would come as a pleasant surprise.

    M1 has 7.5° built in upper rotator steps. If you like to be free to set up even xx.2,5° steps on the upper rotator, and be free to use lenses up to 70-200, a very good alternative would be the NN5 irr RD16 for nearly the same price as NN4.

    http://store.nodalninja.com/products...IRREGULAR.html

    Besides your decision, I'd add an EZ-Leveller II to my order. You can do without it, but it makes life so much easier.
    My plan is to use 70mm as the longest focal length, but I won't rule out trying a 100mm lens in the future. From what I gather, 15° upper rotator steps will provide around 27% overlap with a 100mm lens, but starts falling under 25% as the focal length increases. Does that sound accurate? At this time I don't foresee going any higher than 100mm.

    With regard to the leveler. I plan to first try mounting the setup on my RRS ball head, which leads me to my 2nd question about clamping. RRS says the product in the below link is the correct product to fasten to the bottom of the RD16 in order to mount it to my existing RRS lever clamp. Would you agree or have an alternative to suggest?

    MPR-73 3/8ths: 73mm MPR 3/8th threaded
    http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductD...2F8th-threaded

    I look forward to your findings for the D700, and do appreciate the time you spend helping me.

    Regards,
    Frank
  15. #15

    Quote Originally Posted by hindenhaag View Post
    Frank,

    The last URS for NN4 with CP-2 is 139mm, With NN Arca Style Clamp you need for the L-Plate is 133.5mm.

    Heinz
    Heinz,

    Sorry that I don't understand your answer, but you lost me with all the URS and LRS numbers you've been tossing around for a D3. I've never used a NN4 so I don't know if 133.5 URS is good news or bad news for my D700.

    Does it mean that my D700 with L-plate & Nikor 24-70 lens
    a) will work with the lens set at 24mm or longer?
    b) will only work with the lens set at 35mm or longer?
    c) will not work at all?

    Frank
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