Nodal Ninja 4

[Destiny]

Unfortunatly, we haven't had any paid jobs yet, the hobby shop we did was unpaid to get something for our web site.. Not sure what we would have changed for it anyway... We have sent out heaps of emails and been to see people but its very hard.. When I do a search on Google I am there for 360 Virtual Reality Tours and Destiny Photography studio as well as other searches.. I even have a paid advert "AdWords' to the right of Google ads part but not one single person has gone to our web site according to Google data for AdWords.. We are trying lots of things.. Soon our business card will arrive we hope.. Had to wait on a ABN number from the Tax man... We are hoping that the Car VR might be a good earner.. We have a good rig so we live in hope...

Today I contacted David Jones and Dick Smith to do a pano for free.... Having them on my web site would be nice but so far they have not replied.. Can't even give it away....

Bill Bailey gave me a hot link and there were only two others there who just said, ya I can do that.. We put a link to our web site and gave a nice intro letter but they didn't even respond.. When our card arrives we will do the walk about to business with our lap top... I guess if we try hard enoungh it will happen in the end.. Hope so...

I tried to do the car VR today but it need more thought... I want to make a really nice one and it will be.... guaranteed...

Destiny, No. One Ninja..

D...

did you try "control points" >delete worst control points after the first run of optimize? You should get a result around 2 max distance. I only shoot 6 around with -30° cause the panohead is the only thing I am interested in.

DennisS got it! "We only need the best results"

Think of taking your tours with a bad set up and bad stitching results. "We beat every price" on your website might then lead to you are paying the salary on your own by spending a lot of time to correct this.

Anyway, we like to see your car.

Enjoy and success.
Heinz

[DennisS]

2!!! oh man.. you are a hard man to please

Destiny,

I am referring to those who obsess about the numbers instead of looking at the final stitched panorama. After you do several panoramas and start to nail down your workflow, do not be surprised if you find the maximum control point distance always falls between 2 and 3 the first time you do "delete worst control points". After tweaking some more, the distance often falls below 2 with little effort. Not always, but on occasion. When I shoot panoramas using my monopod, a first crack number of 3 to 5 tells me that the panorama will stitch just fine. If the number starts at 10, I know that I am in for some work. When I bring in a hand held Nadir patch shot, the number always goes up. If the final stitch looks good, I ignore the maximum control point distance.

I look forward to seeing some of your work.

Dennis

[hindenhaag]

D...., that's it. You got it.

Remember to write down your settings. Or tell us, we keep them for you.

I suppose you have to try to get some more "working for nothing jobs" to get reference jobs for your website.

Might be good as well to follow the thread about setting up a good contract on panoguide. This thread began with a pano in a restaurant and at the end there was discussion. The owner thought the restaurant in the pano is too empty. "Who has to bring the "Models" etc and "do you have to do it again for nothing?"

Anyway, success and let us see how it works.

We are free for further questions and we'll try to find an answer if we can.

Regards,
Heinz

[Destiny]

Thank you for all your help.. It just needed tweaking... I am off today to a freebee Mercedes pano.. I have a great rig set up for it.. The most technically advanced part it all is a bucket of water to act like a weight to stop it all falling over....

My dad bought me my camera bag after I got my NN3 so it all fitted so nicely in my little bag.. But... the NN4 is longer so now it will not fit... .. Not to worry... its a much better pano head so one day I will buy a new bigger bag.. To go with my new full frame camera when I get rich.... $$$$$$$$$$

I have taken my NN4 apart.. I just love toying with it.. its a really nice thing to hold and fiddle with... and works so well too... I made a cover shock for it... to keep the dust of it...

I hope the car vr works out so I can send you a link... I might even try bracketing ... never done that before...

Destiny No. 1 Ninja

D...., that's it. You got it.

Remember to write down your settings. Or tell us, we keep them for you.

I suppose you have to try to get some more "working for nothing jobs" to get reference jobs for your website.

Might be good as well to follow the thread about setting up a good contract on panoguide. This thread began with a pano in a restaurant and at the end there was discussion. The owner thought the restaurant in the pano is too empty. "Who has to bring the "Models" etc and "do you have to do it again for nothing?"

Anyway, success and let us see how it works.

We are free for further questions and we'll try to find an answer if we can.

Regards,
Heinz

[hindenhaag]

Hi D...

Success.

http://public.fotki.com/haroldro/360.../04810028.html You find some examples from this guy's car photos in the middles of the set up. He uses as a lot do an extra stand directly in front of the door to prevent his horizontal pole from bending down.

http://www.panoguide.com/forums/qna/8087/

Either you use a horizontal pole construction, or you use a mini tripod like this:

http://www.gitzo.us/product/72038.71...Tripod_wG-Lock or a similar one of Benro.

At the moment I would not buy a new camera body of Nikon, D800 < D700 might be out in august and D4? End of 2011 or begin D2012. So a lot of time for nice paid panos. Remember to think of the new lenses too. 16mm/f2.8, 14-24mm/f2.8......

May be you add one of the new poles in between with an R1, which works nicely with D90.

Regards,
Heinz

[Destiny]

Hi there.. well.. my first car pano was not great.. the problem is... my little remote.. I need one with lead I think.. I need more control... at the moment if I set my camera to backeting it will not take the three images one after the other as if I kept my finger on the button.... I have to press the remote button each time and hope I don't miss one... then turn the pano head.. I need it to go click, click click...like when I hold my finder down.. I think my rig has merit but it needs refining.. I did similar to the image you sent but I only have one tripod.. The centre of my tripod comes up and then can drop over at 90 degrees. What I did was to use an extension pole which did not cost that much.. I bought that from Germany... I then bought an L bracket and it screwed at the end.. This way I can keep my NN4 upright as per normal.. It looks great resting on the dinning room table.. a nice long pole with my NN4 siting proudly on the end up the right way.. My tripod is light so someone had to hold it down to stop the weight pulling it all over, which was not an issue.. No problem in that... But... I was hoping to just poke the extension through the care window but it was too high in the car I tried it on. So I opened the door and put it just above the centre console. I did the pano all round using bracketed shots, two rows of 6 shots -30 +30. I then closed the door and took shots of the closed door for my Nadir patch. I took a few images for this.. I also took a few down to cover the extension pole coming over the passenger seat..

No real problems.. BUT.. Its the way my camera takes the bracketed shots.. I have to use my little remote but I have to take each shot pressing the button each time.. If I take a bracketed shot normally I just keep my finger on the button until the 3 shots have been taken.. I think part of the problem is, I have to take too many shots with my lens and camera..

I made the mistake of putting my camera to landscape when taking the Nadir patch shots.. silly me.. not to worry I am sure I can still use them to test it...

When I tried to stitch my bracketed shots in apg it was not that great.. PTGui Pro seems to handle it much better.. but the bracketed shots are not great.. I was about to put it down to my lack of skills in taking bracketed shots. The image below I took just after the pano set to backeting, which was supposed to be the image I use to put a hot spot on where the user clicks to enter the VR Tour.. I love the results.. Pity my Car VR did not come out as good... Not all lost,.. I will play with the images and see what I get..

I used Photomatix to turn my bracketed shots into a hdr image...
I like the idea of the small tripod, I really need to try that, but I need some kind of wireless controller to take the three images without any cables etc.. Then I can open the door and rotate the NN4.. Then I can take one shot for the Nadir patch which I know how to do... There are small bendy tripod which are not that expensive....

My issues are.... I need to work on my bracketing shots and find out how it can work better in apg .. It might be easier to use a neutral backdrop, that way I don't have to worry about outside.. just inside the car.. which by using PTGui I do not think it's a problem.. It detect bracketed shots automatically and made a much better job of stitching than apg.. The problem with the small tripod link you sent, oh wow, expensive.. never ending....!.. It might be better to remove the gear stick and poke my camera through the whole..

Anyway.. here is my hdr of the car I took the pano of...

D...

Hi D...

Success.

http://public.fotki.com/haroldro/360.../04810028.html You find some examples from this guy's car photos in the middles of the set up. He uses as a lot do an extra stand directly in front of the door to prevent his horizontal pole from bending down.

http://www.panoguide.com/forums/qna/8087/

Either you use a horizontal pole construction, or you use a mini tripod like this:

http://www.gitzo.us/product/72038.71...Tripod_wG-Lock or a similar one of Benro.

At the moment I would not buy a new camera body of Nikon, D800 < D700 might be out in august and D4? End of 2011 or begin D2012. So a lot of time for nice paid panos. Remember to think of the new lenses too. 16mm/f2.8, 14-24mm/f2.8......

May be you add one of the new poles in between with an R1, which works nicely with D90.

Regards,
Heinz

[hindenhaag]

D....

to shoot your bracketing shots in one go by pressing the shutter release knob, you have to set the camera to Hi speed or low speed shots. There is the small knob at the right side of the top window above AF : with the pages on it.

Though you have set the BKT settings with the BKT knob at the left side f the prisma, I suppose you now see a S in the right top corner of the small window. This means single shot. press the pages knob and use the back wheel and turn it to the right: 1- pages -L, second stop pages -H.
You have to set this to L or H, for the best L in first case, to shoot your shots in one go by pressing the shutter release and keep it hold down.

I suppose you had to release every single shot cause shoot modus was to set to S.

Always remember to set BKT and "pages" back to "off and S". Otherwise you might kill your next pano because you do not realize you still shooting in bracketing mode. And end up in around with different EV. Always check your pictures on sight after having done the pano. You can do it again. When you realize it on the mac at home, this is too late. I killed some of my work that way.

I serves to do some things before you leave: battery is charged, an extra charged in the box. Memory card formatted, second one in the box. Remote control in the box. Extra batteries for remote in the box. Plus: check the manual of the camera body if you want to do something which is new to you. For example bracketing. Specially when you work with different bodies.

First time I wanted to use Bracketing with D90 I failed, cause I did not know about the bloody "Pages" knob. Felt too secure having used different bodies D200, D700, D3.

Good luck,
Heinz

[Destiny]

hi Heinz...

I know what you mean about the bracketing.. i could not find anything about it on the pdf help manual so I phoned them up. He had a D90 and the first thing the tech help asked me.. "So, where is the bracketing button on this thing"...!!... emmm.. I said its ok I will work it out and I did.. I don't have an issue with setting the bracketing, its the stupid remote.. It will not work on bracketing.. I cannot press the button when the camera is in the car, I need a remote.. Like I said, I probably need a more sophisticated one.. I might even buy the software where I can take the images using the laptop an then, even though its a D90, I can take up to about 12 bracketed shots if I wanted.. The only thing I have to be aware of is the cable .. When I set my D90 for rapid shots I cannot use the little remote..thats the problem.. I have to take them one by one. using the remote, take the three and then move the head.. real pain.... Not sure what wireless remotes there are or how much they cost....

My dad bought be a Canon G3 with Tripod a few years ago and I just dug the tripod out.. It might be good to take my VR with... its small and very adaptable... Now I have my nadir almost perfect I know I can take the images.. and they will stitch well... I just have to work on the issue of how to take the bracketed shots without pressing the button.. and... i have said it before, but I really need an easy leveller.. its so painful trying to level a bubble in a car..

Anyway.. more experimenting needed....

Destiny...

[Destiny]

Hey.. pity the Nikon D90 does not have blue tooth.. Does anyone know of a good remote or wireless remote I can use to take a image with the camera inside the car.... I have mounted my NN4 nicely now on my pole.. My husband did the MacGyver thing.... When on a budget of $0.... its amazing what you can do with a wooden broom handle and a role of duct tape...

My dad is an engineer.. a good one too but now retired... He never liked the NN3 but he really likes my NN4... Well, 90% happy, he did mention a few things he would do to improve on it but thats an engineer talking.. He said that it would be something special to get the NN4 to be robotic in a limited way... he said with all the new small motors it might not be that hard.. I explained what movements I needed and he thought it can be done... He played with the lego robot and said it just needs a command brick similar fitted to the head... with two small motors.. Well.. not sure about any of that but its sounds cool.... Don't laugh but me and my mum made a night sock for my NN4... well.. its keeps the dust off it...!!

Destiny.. No. 1 Ninja.....

[hindenhaag]

there are a lot of remotes:

I use Haehnel:

http://www.hahnel.ie/index.cfm?page=...s&id=35&pId=35

http://www.hahnel.ie/index.cfm?page=...s&id=64&pId=64
Nice to use a bubble leveler or GPS on top

Heinz

[Destiny]

oh, thats a nice one.. Thank you so much for that.. and it is not that expensive.... for what it does...
As I understand, it can take continuos shots.. is that in the bracketing mode too...??

D..

there are a lot of remotes:

I use Haehnel:

http://www.hahnel.ie/index.cfm?page=...s&id=35&pId=35

[hindenhaag]

Yes, hold the shutter release down and the it fires the whole set and stops at the end. The two models mentioned in the links do the job you are looking for. May be you go for the second one, in case you go on shooting panos with flash like cameleer.

Do not take a Giga T Pro, you can shoot bulks but it does not stop at the end of the bracket set.

Heinz

[Destiny]

Hi guys... Well, I managed to turn out a not too bad car VR...

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/C...tinyCarVR.html

My dad has ordered the remote for me so I can do a car VR using Bracketing... The stitching is almost perfect, a REM of 3.7 but I can see just one bit where it did not stitch perfectly above the drivers door.. It can only get better from here on... I tried soooooo hard to achieve this car VR... So I hope you all like it....

So.. what do you think of my little car.. I even cleaned it for my prop...

Destiny No. 1 Ninja

[Bill Bailey]

Hi guys... Well, I managed to turn out a not too bad car VR...

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/C...tinyCarVR.html

My dad has ordered the remote for me so I can do a car VR using Bracketing... The stitching is almost perfect, a REM of 3.7 but I can see just one bit where it did not stitch perfectly above the drivers door.. It can only get better from here on... I tried soooooo hard to achieve this car VR... So I hope you all like it....

So.. what do you think of my little car.. I even cleaned it for my prop...

Destiny No. 1 Ninja

Nice work Destiny! Car interiors can be challenging due to lighting extremes. Also lots of pros and cons as to best placement of camera for the shoot. I have also heard of others laying a white sheet over the entire car to better light the inside and take away any distracting outside elements. If doing the white sheet you could also play around by adding in scenes like the car sitting on the moon :-)
thx for sharing - good to see you enjoying your NN4.

Bill

[Destiny]

Hello Bill.. Nice to hear from you.... Thought you might be really busy promoting your new NN4 and other new products.. Hope they are doing as well or even better than you anticipated... I am sure they will since they just so beautifully made and finished..

Yes, I was thinking of a white background... I bought a Chroma Key Green screen sheet to redo the interactive animated NN4 better, but the green reflected on the paint of the NN4 so it was just too hard to do that way... I have done Green Screen before at school with my students in a very basic way. I have been chatting to a girl friend in Western Australia who has the NN3 and a brand new D700 and 16mm.. Fisheye... The bitch!!.. haha... Soooo jealous of her new camera.. Anyway, she made a white background for her car dealership pano job.. I keep asking her how it went but I do not think it was successful.. I suggested hiring a white marquee, same as they use for weddings. She could get them to drive the cars into it.. Not sure if that would work... Probably have to have some spare white clothe to pin on any shiny metal bits viewable from the windows.. I did think about a white sheet over the car but then I thought that the folds would cause a issue.. I will see if I can buy a cheap white king size sheet... emm.. might have to get my mum involved to do some needle and threading.. oh.. I just had a thought.. they make car covers just for the top to protect from the sun...keep the car cool inside... emmm.. I will check that out.....

Since my Green Chrome Screen did not work, I have ordered a nice poster of Phuket to do my interactive NN4 again... I just hope there is not too much shine in the poster.. ... Plan 'E', find a nice scene around here somewhere.. Probably should have done that in the first place... Or... Perhaps I should do it with a moon background..

Thank you for taking the time to view my first car VR.. Your NN4 was just perfect for this type of pano as was my D90 and 10.5 fisheye.. If I can create them quick enough I might even get steady work doing it... Particularly in the prestige car market, new and second hand since some second hand prestige cars are worth more than my kidneys.. I am saving my kidneys to sell to buy my new 3DX.. Even vintage cars would be good to do.. some of those are worth more than new..... I am trying to find someone with a nice yacht or boat.. That would make a nice pano.... Caravan camper.. so many ideas.... I will try them all....

Take care Bill....

Destiny, Your No. 1 Ninja Fan..

Nice work Destiny! Car interiors can be challenging due to lighting extremes. Also lots of pros and cons as to best placement of camera for the shoot. I have also heard of others laying a white sheet over the entire car to better light the inside and take away any distracting outside elements. If doing the white sheet you could also play around by adding in scenes like the car sitting on the moon :-)
thx for sharing - good to see you enjoying your NN4.

Bill