5D+16-35LII problems

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  1. 5D+16-35LII problems

    #1
    Unhappy

    Hi,

    I chose the NN5 mainly due to the tables of nodal points that NN provide. The one for the Sigma 8mm is spot on perfect. With the 16-35L the supplied figures were out (they don't say which focal length they are for anyway) and using both the methods described here (http://www.johnhpanos.com/epcalib.htm) I found it to be 128mm on the top rail, 10mm more than in the NN table.

    Problem is that I can't get a good stitch using either Autopano or PTGui, they both come up with the same alignment problem in the same place with a very near object alignment with a far object and nothing I can do with the software makes any difference (I know AP very well).

    The same panorama in exactly the same spot is perfect using the fisheye. I've spent 7 hours already trying different configurations, etc but not getting anywhere. I had assumed that with the correct nodal point having very near/far objects would be irrelevant, it's why I bought the NN5, Can anyone help me?
  2. #2
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
    Posts: 2,386

    there are 2 sources of stitching errors. one is incorrect NPP, the other is wrong lens parameter. If you follow John's tutorial, you should trust your NPP. Have you try to add some manual control points to force the images to stitch? Can you provide some sample images for others to inspect parallax or try stitching?

    here is a good free online storage (5GB free account) that will allow you to backup files and share them
    https://www.sugarsync.com/referral?rf=d3jzjvp4emhag



    Nick
    Last edited by nick fan; 04-04-2011 at 10:04 AM.



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  3. #3

    Tried with manual points, no luck. Here are the pics if anyone wants a go, the problem is with the kitchen cupboards and the beam above (please excuse the mess!).

    www.studio-beni.net/pano.zip

    If anyone has some figures that I should be using for a 5D with a 16-35LII @ 16mm instead which will give me better results I'd be happy to try and report back.
  4. #4

    The images stitched without any trouble using PTGui (control points automatically generated + a few manually placed ones to improve the spread). Project file and stitched output is at: http://www.johnhpanos.com/pano-beni.zip.

    John
  5. #5

    That is indeed perfect, I'm not an expert with PTGui but I have to work out why the image needs manual control points, does that not usually point to a nodal point error or is it just a difficult image for software to deal with automatically?
  6. #6

    I've spent a few hours now trying to get it to work in Autopano Pro. Looks as bad as when I was trying to do interiors without a nodal point solution. Very disheartening as this is what I bought the NN5 for, I shouldn't have to buy new software (I'm using PTGui as trial) to get a stitch when I'm stitching with nodal point rotation. Not sure where I go from here...
  7. #7

    Ben, It often happens that the distribution of auto generated control points is less than ideal. For the images to align well all along the overlap areas, you need control points spread all along those areas, so that the optimizer can calculate the distortion correction parameters a,b, and c effectively. Frequently the control points generator neglects the corners of the images, so it's advisable to make good any deficiencies by manually assigning a few points. Once the lens parameters have been evaluated reasonably well, these can be used in subsequent projects, thus relieving the optimizer of having to calculate them, in which case the ideal spread of points is no longer necessary. In fact, with good lens parameters applied either manually or with a template, you can manage with only two points per overlap, though a few more will usually be helpful. (Any saved project file can be used as a template for presetting image and lens parameters).

    You might like to refer to this short description of how PTGui's optimization process works: http://wiki.panotools.org/Optimization.

    John
  8. #8
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
    Posts: 2,386

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    I've spent a few hours now trying to get it to work in Autopano Pro. Looks as bad as when I was trying to do interiors without a nodal point solution. Very disheartening as this is what I bought the NN5 for, I shouldn't have to buy new software (I'm using PTGui as trial) to get a stitch when I'm stitching with nodal point rotation. Not sure where I go from here...
    No an Autopano Pro user, is there a way to pre-calibrate the lens or to input the lens parameter?

    You can also try to correct for the lens distortion before stitching. DXO Pro has good lens correction. Ptlens should have the lens parameter for your camera and lens. PS CS5 has lens profiles too but not sure how accurate they are.

    After reading many reviews and user manuals, I conclude that Ptgui is the easiest stitcher to use for fisheye and wide angle lenses.

    Nick

    PS You can try to increase the overlap by shooting more images. It may help AutoPano to find better lens parameter.
    it seems that Kolor is working on the lens profiles/ parameters
    http://www.autopano.net/forum/t10427...rection-plugin
    Last edited by nick fan; 04-05-2011 at 03:38 AM.



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  9. #9

    The images provided are very noisy - maybe enhanced by the processing. This appears to cause problems for the Autopano Pro control points generator. One image (#4) had no points at all. I applied the noise reduction option in CS5 and that enabled a decent stitch to be obtained, though not without a few minor stitching errors. The control points were very heavily clustered in the middle of the images, which is no doubt the reason for the stitching errors. Unfortunately, it's difficult to persuade Autopano Pro to place additional points exactly where you want them. Producing cleaner images in the first place would help a lot, I think. f/11, ISO800 were the settings used.

    John
  10. #10
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,740

    Ben,

    I got the same frustration yesterday evening using Autopano Pro to stitch your pictures. But in first case I am a PTGuiPro user. Your pics stitched very easy as John already told us - for experienced users.

    I think the best way to solve your questions is to place this special problem to autopano forum. You could also ask mediavets, who is moderator on the forum:

    http://www.mediavets.co.uk/

    I believe he can easily help you.

    @Nick, they seem to use lens profiles of PTlens or profiles of Adobe. Adobe lens profiles are set up by customers.

    http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/lensprofile_creator/

    Cheers,
    Heinz

    BTW: I added the Canon modules of your set to my DxOPro and corrected them with the standard set up: Correct CA, lens distortion, Vignetting, EV, DxO denoise.

    Pics are available in Jpeg and Tiff.

    http://homepage.mac.com/hindenhaag/f...anoDXOPics.zip
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 04-05-2011 at 09:01 AM.
  11. #11

    I've been trying this afternoon with multilayer and 50% overlap. Still no joy. I don't want the noise to be a problem as that means I'll be limited to only lower ISO's which would be a problem. I've tried in Autopano both with the Adobe lens profiles being applied and without (these ones are without) but it doesn't seem to help.

    I think next stop is to ask on the Autopano forum, the nodal point seems to be correct so it's a software issue. Rather fustrating.
  12. #12

    I've been trying this afternoon with multilayer and 50% overlap. Still no joy. I don't want the noise to be a problem as that means I'll be limited to only lower ISO's which would be a problem. I've tried in Autopano both with the Adobe lens profiles being applied and without (these ones are without) but it doesn't seem to help.

    I think next stop is to ask on the Autopano forum, the nodal point seems to be correct so it's a software issue. Rather fustrating.
  13. #13

    Ben, I would be interested to see a RAW image for IMG_4678. Would it be possible to upload it? It may be possible to do something about the noise.

    John
  14. #14

    I've already deleted them, I'll shoot a new set and upload both iso 100 & 800 RAW's tonight if that's ok. Kids having supper right now and would prefer not to be decapitated by the wife... :-)
  15. #15

    I wouldn't want you to lose your head over this.

    John
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