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Originally Posted by hindenhaag
Hi Heniz,
Thanks a lot for spending your time make the tutorial videos. It will help a lot of people learning how to use the nadir adapter and nadir patching in general.
A suggestion. Maybe you can reduce the video resolution to help people with slower internet connection.
Nick
Last edited by nick fan; 07-29-2010 at 12:37 AM.
Fanotec
We listen. We try harder.
Hi Nick,
I will try to make a revision next weekend and follow some hints I got from John. Actually I did not mingle around with ghosts and CA in first case, just wanted to show the workflow. But seeing this discussion, I will try to add a part on how to use the tripod to get enough room to reach the area below the tripod.
Cellarman, what sort of head are you using on your tripod. I would not have expected such a big plate.
Heinz
Hi Everyone
Just a quick note to say thank you to you all. Nick & John I understand your comments and will try later over the weekend. I must admit that I had not tried the shots without the tripod quick release. Although I cannot quite understand how some of you are getting perfect shots using the coin under the tripod, and then swinging the nadir arm out, moving away and re-aligning. Nick one of your suggestions was to make the Nadir arm extend further, forgive me but I am puzzled with that one.
Heinz the large base under the NN is the quick release head.
Looking forward to trying out your ideas soon, I really do want this to work.
Brian
Brian,
Take a very close look at this picture, which was posted early in the thread:
Now take a look at your images:
I can see why you are having issues. I will try to address each one here. Even though my home made pano head has 50mm more offset, what follows still applies to your situation.
1) Your tripod uses a second set of braces on each leg. My Manfrotto tripod does not. The second set of braces MIGHT be getting in the way of the patch shot.
2) I use a very short center column. It would appear you are using a standard length one. When the center column extends down, it will interfear with the tripod leg in the patch shot.
3) Your quick release clamp is way too wide and is overlapping the two tripod legs in the patch shot. I use a Manfrotto 394 quick release system mounted directly between the tripod and pano head. The orientation puts the clamping lever away from the tripod legs, so there is no overlap.
4) As John has suggested, you are not moving over far enough. Swing the camera out, then measure the distance from the center of your lens to the center of your rotator. That is the distance you need to move over. Until you get very comfortable at moving your rig, I would suggest you put two rulers on the ground before you move your rig. I can see a little rotation in your rig after you moved it over. Rulers on the ground will help eliminiate this rotation.
Using a coin is another way to help make sure you moved over far enough. Before you start moving things, place a coin direcly below the very center of the tripod. After you have moved over, look down into your camera to see if the coin is in the middle of the shot. If not, adjust as necessary.
When you are practicing moving your rig, bring both the Nadir and patch shot into the same image in Photoshop. Set the opacity of the patch to 50%. You will quickly see any overlap. Make sure there is no overlap before you start stitching. If there is overlap, you will not be happy with the resulting stitch.
One more thing, get a wireless remote control. Your feet will never be in the shot (unless you are doing the patch shot hand held).
I am glad you posted some images. It goes a very long way in helping you get it right. I would first move over the correct distance before purchasing another tripod that does not have the second set of braces. You will probably need a shorter center column.
Dennis
Hi Brian,
I shot some test pics with D90 NN3 today and now I understand your problem.
As the others already mentioned, two problems, an additional leg system in your tripod, big quick release plate interfering the nadir shots.
2x distance rotation center to pivot point of the adaptor reads 2x 10.8cm = 21.6cm with my equipment with a lower rail setting for D90 NN3 with the adaptor is 50.
Trying this with NN3 Ez-Leveller II there is no problem to stitch. May be it even works with reducing blending parameters in PTGui besides alpha masking.
I got the same problem like you with QRC2, which measures 6x6 cm. I did not stitch the arca swiss style clamp which is smaller.
First quick conclusion: because of the offset of the adaptor dealing with torque and weight of the equipment, we have to be aware, that nothing of our equipment interferes with the small room in between the two nadir shots. No big quick release plates, or long center columns as Dennis mentioned several times.
Till now, I had no problem with NN3 or NN5 Ez-LevellerII with adaptor NN mounted directly to the tripod. Tested with FX and as well as with DX Nikon cameras.
Conclusion: Check your PD = Pivot distance from rotation center of rotator to pivot of the adaptor of around 21 cm to slide your tripod backwards for D90 NN3, if this is right, move further backwards and use View point correction in PTGui if necessary, if this does not help, try to change or remove your quick release plate.
I will try to place the pics tonight cause I only have a PS version on my PC at home to let you see the results.
BTW Nick, might be handsome to have a white mark for pivot point on the adaptor to measure the PD more easily cause this varies with LRS . I have already marked mine as you can see on the pics later on..
Regards
Heinz
Last edited by hindenhaag; 08-01-2010 at 06:47 AM.
Dennis/Heinz/everyone
Thanks to all of you for taking time with me on this. Despite numerous attempts over the weekend trying different variations it would seem that the problem is more to do with my tripod than the adapter. I stripped the tripod down to the bare essentials, unfortunately I cannot remove the braces as they are riveted, but could not produce anything of consistency. Having spent hours on this now I have come to the conclusion that I shall have to put my hand in my pocket and purchase a new tripod. Suggestions would be welcome, I have always gone for a sturdy well balanced tripod, hence the Velbron, but it would now seem that I was perhaps wrong with this. If there is something lightweight and sturdy that any of you can recommend and falls into the criteria that has been mentioned, then please let me know. Once again many thanks for your help.
Brian
Glad to hear you are making progress. Keep at it. All this effort will pay off as you start producing great panoramas.
I use the Manfrotto 055XB. No issues. Make sure you can get a short center column. Do not cut the one that comes with the tripod, as you may need to use it later for something else other than panography. Don't get one with a center column that pivots. Your Nadir adapter eliminates the need to pivot the center column.
Brian,
and all new users of the new Nadir Adaptor. I did test shots with D90 10.5 NN3 Nadir Adaptor Gitzo GT1541. Normal shot is ok. Then I placed the QRC-2 clamp on top of the rotator, and this simulates one of Brians problems with his quick release clamp. The clamp is nearly 6x6cm. Third test is with the arca style clamp. It is smaller and may be if you use it visa versa it may work. Especially cause I had to place the plates on top of the rotator. At this moment there is no camera plate availible from my dealer. There should be a little bit more space with the plates below the rotator.
I add a pic of my tripods, left to right Feisol CT-3372LV NN5, Gitzo GT1541 NN3/R1, Manfrotto 055ProB which I used before the Feisol with NN5. Feisol comes with a plate as well as a centre column. Very light, rock solid.
Heinz
next pics,
Heinz
Hi everyone
The story so far. Well after trawling my local photo establishments it would seem that no one had a decent tripod to sell to me, indeed they were rather vague when I asked for one with a short centre column. So I decided to attack my Velbron and strip it right down. I removed the stabilizers, and took out the centre column support leaving me with a much lighter tripod and with more versatility without losing the stability (I do not recommend this treatment to your beloved three legged rig, but needs must in my case) To cut a long story short, my first shot with the Nadir adapter after all this butchery was incredible. A perfect stitch, no holes, everything blended into place. I did a few more just to make sure and all was well. To be honest I didn't even use the coin to line up, I just slid the tripod to a point that I thought was passed the centre line and used viewpoint correction. The difference was amazing, less time was involved , no retouching, its like I had just woken up and won the lottery.
I shall upload pics when I have given it a proper test in a proper working environment. I am sure you do not want to see any more images of my garden, because after all those test shots I am sick of the site of it. I am indebted to this forum and especially certain members who have done so much to aid me with my problems, you know who you are. To any new users I say listen to these guys, they know what they are talking about because they have had similar problems and have worked through them together.
And to you Nick, sorry if I sounded so negative about this adapter, it was only frustration, keep up the good work all of you.
Brian
Hello Everyone,
What a great, informative thread. Unfortunately I haven't had enough experience to fully understand it! I've just bought an NN5 and used it for the first time yesterday. I haven't yet worked out how to deal with the Nadir. On my first attempt it appears as a black hole in an otherwise reasonable image. I'm sorry if this has been asked a hundred times but can anyone point me to a basic tutorial on how to patch up the nadir?
Many thanks
John
Fanotec
We listen. We try harder.
John,
if you download the new beta version of PTGui, trial possible, you can mask the tripod directly in PTGui. This works similar to alpha mask in PS. Import the images to PTGui, > Source images, click the nadir shot, turns blue, >Mask, use the red button to take out the tripod etc. Do the same with the second nadir shot, by clicking source images.
Then stitch...
Heinz
Thanks Nick and Heinz,
I went through the information you provided and went out yesterday and got the correct shots for the Nadir. I've downloaded the beta version of PT Gui but haven't yet processed the images. The main thing is though I'm now understanding the comments in the thread beginning to make sense. I shot my first outdoors panorama yesterday and shot on aperture priotity with auto white balance - oops! When I achieve something not too embarrassing I'll post it up to request critical comments.
Thanks again,
John
uupppssss John,
You are using wrong settings. You have to set everything to manual mode: focus, aperture, WB. The best aperture for panos and lenses is F8 or F11. There are several methods to find the right shutter speed. Most times I set mode to A, walk around my stops and watch the shutter speed. Specially have a look to highlight and shadow areas. Then make a choice, better underexpose then overexpose and set mode to M. A burnt out sun cannot be repaired. Set focus to hyperfocal distance.
Camera has to be set to manual cause otherwise you get a mix of everything, a mosaic of apertures, WB's, focus , etc.
What camera lens combo do you use? Feel free to ask whatever you like. Everybody on forums started as a beginner. And was eager to take his first shots as soon as possible. But this business is not a plug and play combo.But we try to get you on the road as soon as possible.
Regards,
Heinz
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