NN5 + long lenses
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  1. NN5 + long lenses

    #1

    Greetings!
    I'd like to try an NN5+RD16 with a long lens, say a 300mm on full frame, or 200mm on aps. It looks like the RD16 should work fine if I mount the camera in landscape. Problem is, the vertical displacement. As I understand it, the NN5 only has 15 degree stops -- right? Is it possible, and if so, is it a good idea, to adapt a 2nd RD16 to use as the top rotator on the NN5?
    TIA!
    Pedro
  2. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #2

    Hi Pedro,

    NN5 allows you to setup upper arm as you want so it should be fine for you. Installation of a R-D16 on upper arm looks to me very complex and not efficient I think !!

    Vinc?®n



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  3. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #3
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    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
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    Hallo Pedro,

    i think there is a misunderstanding. You can set the upper rail to every degree you like. With NN5 w you have an extra lock, fixed with the silver lever, only every 15 degrees. This prevents the camera from moving with heavy lenses. But you can use 7,5 degree as well.

    So there is no need to place a second rotator. To give you some more help, it would be nice to know what camera lens combination you like to use. Specially for long lenses there are special settings of the rails, which depend on the combination. I use 70-200mm/f2.8 nikkor, which works fine on the NN5W Rd16. Get a EZ-Leveller II as well, which will help you a lot cause specially with heavier combinations. Having mounted these combinations, you have to recheck and rearrange the bubble.

    Heinz
  4. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #4
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    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedro.silva View Post
    Greetings!
    I'd like to try an NN5+RD16 with a long lens, say a 300mm on full frame, or 200mm on aps. It looks like the RD16 should work fine if I mount the camera in landscape. Problem is, the vertical displacement. As I understand it, the NN5 only has 15 degree stops -- right? Is it possible, and if so, is it a good idea, to adapt a 2nd RD16 to use as the top rotator on the NN5?
    TIA!
    Pedro
    the spring loaded detent mechanism does not work well in the upper rotator. Gravity affects the precision of the detent. So a Positive stops is needed.

    nick



    Fanotec
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  5. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #5

    Thank you gents for your replies.

    I was afraid that the spring loaded detent mechanism might not work well in the upper rotator, but was worth asking.
    It is good to learn that the upper rotator has 7.5 degree stops, i didn't realize that. But as I understand it (?), the special locking mechanism only works at the 15 degree stops. So with heavy lenses there might be slippage at any other angles, even with stops, and even worse at other "odd" angles -- right?

    In addition, I think Heinz is right, there is still something I don't understand. Let's say we are using a 200mm on a nikon aps with 96 stops on the rd16. My calculations indicate that camera in portrait would only give about 15% horizontal overlap, which might work in a pinch, but is not ideal for routine work (and it's even less than that on a canon). But with the camera in landscape, the 7.5 degree stops of the upper rotator give no overlap at all. So the vertical rotation would have to be done by eye, not with any click stops. Where is my error?

    Cheers,
    Pedro
  6. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #6
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,741

    Hi Pedro,

    let me try to explain some basics using the nodal ninja products.

    Talking about the rotator, we are talking about a 360¬? panorama.This means one row in horizontal view. Where do i have to place my dentent plungers? You have to use a panorama calculator, like the one on this website from Frank van der Pol, to know how many pictures you have to take for a desired overlap in portrait or horizontal mode. This is based on the HFOV and on the VFOV of your lens, this means what do you see when you look through your viewfinder. (Horizontal/vertical field of view).

    Now you set the rotator to the desired number of pictures, let's say 90¬? for 4 pictures to reach the 360¬?. Ok rotator is done.

    If you like to do a spherical panorama, you have to move the camera and the upper rail to take 4 pictures in every row, which means you have to move the upper rail up and down at a special degree to get the overlap in the vertical. You have to calculate this with a special panorama calculator. Moving the upper rail, you can set all the positions you like which are engraved on the upper rail rosette behind the knob. The silver fixation will give you a stronger fit at every 15¬?.

    So first of all, check the set up for a normal horizontal panorama, the rotator settings, then you might step over for sphericals moving the upper rail up and down. But this is step two and you must not combine these two steps.

    Did i understand your question?

    Heinz



  7. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #7

    I think the main problem with these conversations is often that too much is assumed and not enough explained. For example, I was thinking specifically about multi-row mosaics -- but never said it. I hope that is clear now.

    I have used pano heads before, only not any NN (yet). I know how to calculate the required number of images per row, as well as the number of rows needed, for given overlaps. So, the basics are covered. I also thought I had made it clear that I was talking about long lenses, say a 300mm on full frame, or 200mm on aps, but maybe not.

    I am satisfied that it is possible to use such a camera-lens combo, a NN5+RD16, and use the click stops on the horizontal plane -- using the camera in landscape. I also understand that it is possible to set the vertical rotator of the NN5 itself at any desired angle by eye.

    Trying again to describe my questions: with a 300mm on full frame or 200mm on aps, a NN5+RD16, and anything else reasonable,
    1- it is possible to make multi-row mosaics using click-stops to advance in both horizontal and vertical directions? If so, how?
    2- does the upper rotator of the NN5 hold a large dslr+tele securely at angles where the special locking mechanism cannot be used?

    Again, TIA!

    Cheers,
    Pedro
  8. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #8
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    Location: Hong Kong
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedro.silva View Post
    I think the main problem with these conversations is often that too much is assumed and not enough explained. For example, I was thinking specifically about multi-row mosaics -- but never said it. I hope that is clear now.

    I have used pano heads before, only not any NN (yet). I know how to calculate the required number of images per row, as well as the number of rows needed, for given overlaps. So, the basics are covered. I also thought I had made it clear that I was talking about long lenses, say a 300mm on full frame, or 200mm on aps, but maybe not.

    I am satisfied that it is possible to use such a camera-lens combo, a NN5+RD16, and use the click stops on the horizontal plane -- using the camera in landscape. I also understand that it is possible to set the vertical rotator of the NN5 itself at any desired angle by eye.

    Trying again to describe my questions: with a 300mm on full frame or 200mm on aps, a NN5+RD16, and anything else reasonable,
    1- it is possible to make multi-row mosaics using click-stops to advance in both horizontal and vertical directions? If so, how?
    2- does the upper rotator of the NN5 hold a large dslr+tele securely at angles where the special locking mechanism cannot be used?

    Again, TIA!

    Cheers,
    Pedro
    This review will help.

    http://www.tawbaware.com/nn5_review2.html




    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  9. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #9

    Nick,

    That review, which I had read, and now reread, helps, but. In my last post I asked 2 simple and specific questions and the review does not really answer those. For example, Max was using a rebel, one of the lightest DSLRs with a relatively light f/4 lens. Max also says "I ended up disengaging the lever and the click stops in the upper rotator for all of my shots". In contrast, my questions were (are!) specifically about a "large dslr+tele" combo (not a sigmonster, but at least something like a 70-200mm f/2.8 like Heinz's), and the use of click stops in the upper rotator.
    I have read great things about NN support, but if I can't get these 2 simple questions answered...

    Cheers,
    Pedro

    Quote Originally Posted by nick fan View Post
  10. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #10
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    Join Date: Apr 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedro.silva View Post

    Trying again to describe my questions: with a 300mm on full frame or 200mm on aps, a NN5+RD16, and anything else reasonable,
    1- it is possible to make multi-row mosaics using click-stops to advance in both horizontal and vertical directions? If so, how?
    15 deg stop in upper rotator only supports <100mm eq focal length.
    Our future models will support much finer stops.


    2- does the upper rotator of the NN5 hold a large dslr+tele securely at angles where the special locking mechanism cannot be used?
    There is no easy answer. It depends on length and weight of lens. As far as I know it supports 70-200mm F2.8 and 300mm F4. Why don't you list your combination of camera and lens and ask this question specifically?


    Nick




    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  11. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #11

    Thank you Nick for answering my questions: short and to the point -- but also tantalizing!
    Support for the 2 lenses you mention is enough as benchmark.
    Can you say anything about those "future models"? In particular, can any of it be retrofitted to a NN5? Pleeeaaase?
    Cheers,
    Pedro

    Quote Originally Posted by nick fan View Post
    15 deg stop in upper rotator only supports <100mm eq focal length.
    Our future models will support much finer stops.


    There is no easy answer. It depends on length and weight of lens. As far as I know it supports 70-200mm F2.8 and 300mm F4. Why don't you list your combination of camera and lens and ask this question specifically?


    Nick
  12. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #12
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedro.silva View Post
    Thank you Nick for answering my questions: short and to the point -- but also tantalizing!
    Support for the 2 lenses you mention is enough as benchmark.
    Can you say anything about those "future models"? In particular, can any of it be retrofitted to a NN5? Pleeeaaase?
    Cheers,
    Pedro
    Actually, the weight limit is not imposed by the upper rotator alone. To support large tele lens, all rails have to be strengthened. Long focal length requires much higher stability.

    About the future models. They are the Ultimate models which I have been working on for years. Many ideas have been generated and killed. The result are high quality and extremely versatile pano heads. They are all CNC machined and anodized from aluminum alloy. They are based on Arca Swiss compatible system.
    Sorry no release date yet. I have failed to predict the release date accurately in the past. There are simply too many components. I am designing the whole system.

    Only the advanced rotators (RD4/8/12/16/3L) are compatible with the Ultimate models.

    Nick



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  13. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #13
  14. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #14
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
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    Hi Pedro,

    thx for some more information. Now i know a bit more about the way we talk.

    Using large lenses raises besides the question of weight the question of the position of the NPP. The database about 200mm or 300mm is quite empty. You have to calculate, that the NPP for long lenses lies behind! the sensor. For the nikkor 70-200 it is about some centimeters. But for the nikkor 300/f2.8 it is more than 35 cm behind the senor plane of the camera. This means, you have to bring the camera 35 cm in front of the rotating point. For a 200mm/ f4 round about 25cm. This means you have to get your own special rail to fix it to the upper rail to reach these positions. It works with the 70-200mm/f2.8 and full frame, 18-200 DX.

    But as Nick mentioned, what camera lens combination are you thinking of? A Zoom, an f/2.8 lens? Full Frame or DX?

    This are our open questions.

    Heinz

  15. Re: NN5 + long lenses

    #15

    Thanx Heinz, but I've got all the answers I need now.
    Cheers,
    Pedro

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