R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

Share/Bookmark
  1. R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #1
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Jan 2010
    Location: Freiburg, Germany
    Posts: 12

    Currently I am using a Manfrotto panorama head, which is quite heavy and bulky a load to carry. I am therefore considering to buy a R1. On the website I found, that the +/- 90 degree shots are off the NPP. So I thought about some different setup. Could you please comment on whether this is at all realistic/possible? BTW I am using PTGui as a stitcher.

    The 5D with the Canon 15 mm lens will cover nearly 180 degrees when rolled diagonally. So I am considering to mount the camera/lens diagonally in the R1. When the camera is then tilted upwards 7.5 degrees, there should no zenith shot be needed. It would then take 6 shots around. There should be an area of approximately 15 degrees missing in the Nadir. The nadir shot could then be taken with the -90 degree off NPP setting.

    So, is there anyone, who has got some experience with a similar setup, or will this setup not work anyway? Thank you very much for comments on this.
  2. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #2

    You should set up a simulation in PTGui with dummy images. The zenith would be covered (just), but there is a star shaped nadir hole of slightly more than 60 degrees. The zenith quality might not be great.

    John
  3. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #3
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,741

    Just talked about this problem with the australian team member of nodal ninja shop. He is shooting the zenith with 7.5 degree as well and he told me it works with the nikkor 10.5. Just use the camera in portrait mode. You still stay with the nadir problem, so mirror ball, logo, or handheld.

    Otherwise i was thinking of adding a moving plate of RRS below the R1 to move the lens back to the nnp in 90 degree position...

    Heinz
  4. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #4
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
    Posts: 2,462

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrees View Post
    Currently I am using a Manfrotto panorama head, which is quite heavy and bulky a load to carry. I am therefore considering to buy a R1. On the website I found, that the +/- 90 degree shots are off the NPP. So I thought about some different setup. Could you please comment on whether this is at all realistic/possible? BTW I am using PTGui as a stitcher.

    The 5D with the Canon 15 mm lens will cover nearly 180 degrees when rolled diagonally. So I am considering to mount the camera/lens diagonally in the R1. When the camera is then tilted upwards 7.5 degrees, there should no zenith shot be needed. It would then take 6 shots around. There should be an area of approximately 15 degrees missing in the Nadir. The nadir shot could then be taken with the -90 degree off NPP setting.

    So, is there anyone, who has got some experience with a similar setup, or will this setup not work anyway? Thank you very much for comments on this.
    For full frame fisheyes, R1/10 should be used for outdoor pano only where parallax is not a problem for the zenith shot. It also works for indoor with flat ceilings. Ptgui Pro will stitch it with viewpoint correction.
    I would suggest to take shots at 0 deg or -7.5 deg tilt. larger nadir is more difficult to deal with than larger zenith. Since you have Manfrotto pano head, R1/10 will be a great companion. Keep the Manfrotto for difficult indoor pano, use R1/10 for outdoor. :-) We will also release multi-row Ultimate pano head to work with the lens rings in the future. At that time, you can sell your Manfrotto. :-)

    Nick



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  5. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #5
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Jan 2010
    Location: Freiburg, Germany
    Posts: 12

    Thank you very much for your swift responses and tipps. I has become quite clear to me, that I do need a R1. As soon as it is in use, I will start to try out different setups.

    I actually did not bother too much about the nadir shot, since with the manfrotto pano head I quite often had to take this shot free-hand. And this did nearly always result in some fiddling around. So in this regard any Nodal Ninja solution is superior anyway due to its small footprint.

    Carsten
  6. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #6
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Jan 2010
    Location: Ottawa, Canada
    Posts: 13


    I used a R10 with 10 degree pitch with a Nikon D300 with a 10.5 mm lens rotated so the diagonal was vertical. I was recording the setup of equipment outside so the nadir hole was not an issue but the zenith is important for overhead obstructions. I took handheld zenith and nadir shots but only used them in one panorama so far. Below is a small example of how it worked out.

    [ftp=ftp://ftp.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca/ad/murnaghan/Pano-6shot.jpg]ftp://ftp.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca/ad/murnaghan/Pano-6shot.jpg[/ftp]

    In the future I would try a smaller pitch angle. I am interested in how the new Nodal Ninja product will work. My idea would be six shots around alternating +10 and -10 pitch.

    Kevin.
  7. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #7
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Jan 2010
    Location: Freiburg, Germany
    Posts: 12

    Alternating shots with pitch up and down are on my schedule as well. I had found this idea at http://www.lightspacewater.net/Tutor...per/index.html. Other very interesting theoretical considerations and tests I did find at http://michel.thoby.free.fr/. But for the time being I will have to be patient until the lens ring for the Canon 15mmm will be available in Germany.
  8. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #8

    Hello ctrees,

    Shooting in a slanted camera position to maximize the VFOV is one of my favorites.
    On this forum I posted an article with examples about the slanted position:

    http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=958.0

    Although it will be possible to use the slanted camera position with a 5D+15mm fisheye I think the large star shaped hole in nadir you will get is a bit of a bummer.
    To fill the hole you need a large nadir patch and therefore I didn't find a focal lenght of 15mm myself not very useful.
    To avoid the large hole and to get a reasonable small footprint it is better to limit the focal lenght to 14mm but of course you need a zoom lens (like the shaved Tokina 10-17) to do this.

    Success,
    Wim
  9. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #9
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Jan 2010
    Location: Freiburg, Germany
    Posts: 12

    Hello Wim!

    Your posting is very inspiring indeed. IMHO it would be a great if the team of Nodal Ninja could add a menu like "Tipps and Tricks" to their website, where contributions like yours would be listed.

    Finally I have received my R1 with the ring for the Canon 15mm lens. And I have tried to shoot a panorama with both tricky zenith AND nadir setting - my little home office - lots of lines and a nasty object in the zenith.

    I have slanted the camera close to the optimum of 33.7 degree. Here the iPhone application iHandyLevel comes very handy, just hold the iPhone to the bottom of the camera and you will get the slant angle with high precision. So I shot 6 pictures around plus one zenith with the camera facing up in the R1 plus one nadir freehand shot. The camera was pointing up 5 degrees.

    My first atempt was, to stitch without the additional zenith shot (all stitching done in PTGui). This did not work out, since stitching errors in the zenith occured. I then stitched a panorama using all 8 pictures. Only in the freehand nadir shot some control points were edited manually. This setup did work out extremely good, as you can see at:

    http://www.rees.cc/r1test/test.html

    This is just the panorama as it is stitched by PTGui - no retouche has been made. Only minor stitching errors occured, that can be retouched easily. You can download the 8 pictures plus project file at:

    http://www.rees.cc/r1test/r1.zip

    My conclusion: For me the R1 did work out extremely well. In difficult zenith conditions, a zenith shot will help. In normal oudoor conditions with skye or cloud in the zenith the additional shot will not be necessary.

    Viele Gr??e

    Carsten

  10. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #10

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrees View Post
    ........
    My conclusion: For me the R1 did work out extremely well. In difficult zenith conditions, a zenith shot will help. In normal oudoor conditions with skye or cloud in the zenith the additional shot will not be necessary
    ........
    Hello Carsten,

    The result looks very good and I am glad that the R1 worked so well for you in this indoor pano.
    In fact I am supprised that the off-set NPP zenith shot worked so well for you, when shooting indoor and so close to objects at the ceiling then an off-set NPP zenith shot often gives stitching errors due to parallax.

    Just for fun, load your PTGui project, open the Panorama Editor, leave it open and go to the Create Panorama tab.
    Then reorder/resize the windows so you get both windows at the same time in view.
    Then in the Create Panorama tab, under Include images, uncheck/check/uncheck/check/etc. the tick boxes of image 6 and 7 and looks what is happening in the Panorama Editor.
    You will see that a lot of objects of the scene are moving in the panorama, this is because the zenith and nadir shots are not exact in NPP with parallax as result.
    But thanks to the fact that the blender is working fine and that there are no critical elements on the seems you got away with it.
    Life is good

    Wim
  11. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #11
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,741

    Hi Carsten,

    wie ich sehe hast du sehr schnell gelernt, top pano.

    viel spass fuer die Zukunft.

    Heinz
  12. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #12

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrees View Post
    My first atempt was, to stitch without the additional zenith shot (all stitching done in PTGui). This did not work out, since stitching errors in the zenith occured.
    The reason the zenith was poor was the complete lack of control points in the ceiling area. In this configuration, the automatic control point assignment gives points clustered very much in the middle of the images. I assigned some points manually on the light fitting in the ceiling and also on the floor, and you then get a very good alignment and can manage without the zenith shot.

    John
  13. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #13
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Jan 2010
    Location: Freiburg, Germany
    Posts: 12

    Thank you very much to all of you for your helpful comments and hints.

    Wim, this trick of yours to view the resulting panorama with and without a specific image is amazing. Seeing the offset of the up-image, I realized, that there was another possibility for optimization. In PTGui I first optimized without up and down shot. Then I optimized for up-shot with viewpoint-correction and then for down-shot with viewpoint-correction. This did improve the quality of the stitch and the movement viewing the panorama with your trick was reduced a great deal also.

    John, your comment set me off for a set of tests with additional control point both on the floor and on the light fitting. But somehow I always ended up with some seems or curves in the light fitting. I even tried to reduce the control points in the middle of the images in order to give more weight to the control points on floor and ceiling. But this ended up in panoramic desaster.

    Since I only recently switched from Realviz Stitcher to PTGui, I assume that these problems are due to my lack of experience with control points. John, could you please send me your settings file, so that I can have a look at your control points?

    Once again thank you all and

    viele Gr??e

    Carsten
  14. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled

    #14

    Carsten, I have emailed the project file to you.

    John
  15. Re: R1 setup - Canon 5D - Canon 15mm - camera rolled - summing up

    #15
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Jan 2010
    Location: Freiburg, Germany
    Posts: 12

    Summing up and getting a perfect stitch.

    John was so kind, to mail me the project file (http://www.rees.cc/r1test/r1_john.pts.zip) with his control points. There were actually 2 valuable tipps included in his mail:

    • He uses an alpha-mask with the freehand nadir shot, as he describes on his page http://www.johnhpanos.com/ptgvpt.htm. This way the elevated parts on the nadir shot will not get in the way of a good stitching result.
    • A carefull choice of additional control points is essential for a good stitch. In the attached project you can see, how he is strategically positioning the additional control points in the nadir and in the zenith region.


    So indeed the need for an additional zenith shot was solely due to my low experience with PTGui.

    My conclusion: The combo Canon 5D, with Canon 15mm lens, slanted 33,6 degrees on an Nodal Ninja R1, images stitched with PTGui is a dream team.

    Many thanks to all of you for your kind support and especially to John for getting a PTGui novice straight on some important (control) points.

    Carsten

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •