NN3 + Ricoh

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  1. NN3 + Ricoh

    #1

    Hello Ninja Users,
    I shoot with a Nikon D2X and 360 Precision heads, but recently have decided to attempt making panoramas with a more portable set up for those awkward situations. So I've invested in a Nodal Ninja 3 Mk II to use with my portable camera of choice, the Ricoh GR Digital II - with the GW-1 wide converter making it into a 21mm lens. I've spent my first afternoon trying to locate the NNP and think I'm just about there. A few more tests to go yet. Just wondered whether anyone else is using this set-up? Maybe you have some alignment marks? Maybe you want mine?
    Must admit, my first reaction is that it feels like going back to all the messing about I had with the old Manfrotto. 360Precision does spoil you. But, I bought it for its compact size and you can't have it all.

    Marcus
  2. Re: NN3 + Ricoh

    #2
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
    Posts: 2,366

    hi Marcus,

    is the tripod socket in line with the lens axis? if not you need to use a T-20 (20mm offset) or T-30 (30mm off-set) adapter to compensate the off-set.


    nick



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  3. Re: NN3 + Ricoh

    #3
  4. Re: NN3 + Ricoh

    #4

    I am using the T-20 adapter, so all should be fine. Just one thing, PTGui recognizes the EXIF information, fine, but there is a box for 'Wide angle or tele converter' which asks for a conversion factor. As I AM using a wide angle converter, should I be entering a figure here and ticking the box? At the moment I'm testing without ticking that box, but I imagine that will be using the EXIF from the camera which will assume NO wide angle converter. Or as it is electronically linked to the camera, maybe the EXIF is automatically updated? Any ideas anyone?
    Will post again to say how my tests go in case anyone wants the settings.

    Thanks,

    Marcus
  5. Re: NN3 + Ricoh

    #5

    Marcus, It should be obvious from the data in the Lens Settings tab whether PTGui has taken account of the wide angle adapter. Without the adapter, you should have either a focal length of 5.9mm and a crop factor of 4.75, or a focal length of 28mm and a crop factor of 1. They both amount to the same thing as far as PTGui is concerned. Apply the adapter factor, or not, accordingly.

    John
  6. Re: NN3 + Ricoh

    #6

    Thanks John.
    WITH the adapter I have a Focal Length of 4.456mm and a Focal Length Multiplier of 4.842. So I guess this means the EXIF has taken into account the wide angle adapter. That's good.
    As for my results: Not too bad. I always try to have no more than 3.6 pixels as my maximum CP distance, and with the 360P I only usually have to delete a few CPs to get there. With this new set up with the Ricoh and NN3, PTGui is starting off with CP distances of 20 plus pixels. I'm deleting like mad, then maybe adding a few by hand. I end up with a good stitch, but wonder if this gap means I haven't quite got it set up right. I would have thought that had I NOT found the NNP I wouldn't get a good stitch at all, so I'm assuming I must be pretty close
    Getting there....

    Marcus
  7. Re: NN3 + Ricoh

    #7

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    I'm deleting like mad, then maybe adding a few by hand.
    You need to retain a good spread of points in the overlap areas. It's easy to get a good but valueless optimization report when the points are clustered together in the middle, and with all the difficult-to-align points near the edges deleted. If everything is reasonably far from the camera, then the setup of the camera on the head isn't at all critical. You should do some tests specifically to check for parallax when there are things in the overlap areas close to the camera seen against a distant background.

    John
  8. settings

    #8

    Received the NN3 MKII and trying to find the correct settings with my old Ricoh GR Digital with GH-1 wide lens. And the good combination with Hugin for stitching.

    I was once told the HFOV is 58.63, but that results in a focal length of 23.12mm... Could it be correct? With the multiplier at 1x.

    I did not forget to acquire the T20 and set it at 1.7. The lower slider at 5.1 and the upper slider at 7.9, however I'm not sure about this one. And even the lower slider...

    Stitching is pretty good already but longer horizontal lines in the upper section of the image tend to break a bit here and there, so it's not perfect yet. Nearby objects aren't the problem and he didn't mess up the tiles in the floor.

    Does anyone have the correct settings or advice? Didn't try the grid trick yet, just followed the video's at Red Door. But they're very simplistic and not realistic .
  9. #9
  10. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by otioti View Post
    I was once told the HFOV is 58.63, but that results in a focal length of 23.12mm... Could it be correct? With the multiplier at 1x.
    Shoot a full 360 degree panorama. The stitch will evaluate the true HFOV parameter. The focal length is irrelevant; it's only use is to enable an initial value for the HFOV to be estimated.

    Stitching is pretty good already but longer horizontal lines in the upper section of the image tend to break a bit here and there, so it's not perfect yet. Nearby objects aren't the problem and he didn't mess up the tiles in the floor.
    Stitching of the most distant parts of the panorama should be perfect, since parallax effects will be effectively non-existent. Put control points only on far away features and then you should see stitching artifacts on the nearby objects due to parallax if the head setup is poor.

    John
  11. #11

    I did shoot many iterations to find the correct positions on both the lower and upper arm, with my Ricoh GR Digital I + GH-1 0.75x lense.

    Finding the lower arm position by trying to find the perfect circle was more or less doable, although it still looked a tiny bit bumpy in the end (without seeing the direction of the tiny saw teeth). Trying to find the upper arm position with this method doesn't really make sense i think, as the axis of tilting the upper arm up results in a wider or more narrow black spot in the middle...

    So in order to find the good upper arm position I tried the trick with the sticker on the window, focussing on a object in a further distance. Later on when I tried it again with a object within a closer distance, it seemed like I had to recalibrate again.

    Many iterations later I'm still at a point that shooting by hand often gives better results than shooting with a tripod and the NN. Although the camera dimensions should fit the NN3 MKII, I'm really starting to wonder if this is ever going to work. I'm stitching with Hugin, I tried others but they gave worse results.
  12. #12
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,734

    Please send us a full set of pics on www.ge.tt for example.
    Heinz
  13. #13
  14. #14
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Aug 2008
    Location: Netherlands
    Posts: 1,734

    Hi,

    You have chosen a difficult room to stitch. Long lines on the ceiling, most empty walls, especially between pic 10 and 11. So I placed some extra CP in pic 10 / 11. In first case I had a look for something special on the wall. I could only find some near the bottom. At the ceiling you will only find horizontal lines. When you have more than 3 CP, you can try to place them on the plain wall and wait what PtGui does with it. The most easiest way is to place some "Post It" or similar stickers to the wall and remove them later on in photoshop or something else.

    I used a PtGuiPro Trial version which you can download, which is on the computer in my office. In first case I through out the last image, aligned, > advance > optimizer. In optimizer in "minimize lens distortion" I have chosen for "Lens shift + heavy".I said "ok" to the result and went to top tab and have chosen for "Delete Worst control points". Within one go max dist changed 1.2. So your settings seam to be OK.

    When you have problems in stitching, just do it step for step, specially using "Control points" tab and have a look for the spread of CP. Actually you need 4 in horizontal as well as in vertical to get a good stitch.

    I send the Projects file. Open it up and have a look through without changing anything.

    http://ge.tt/7ELQr0o/v/0

    I've left a small stitching error in the 1/3 of the window on the left part. The one in the middle. So open up the two corresponding pics in Control points and place two CP along the line of the frame right and left from the stitching error.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	R0028968 Panorama.mov.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	90.8 KB
ID:	999Click image for larger version

Name:	R0028968 Panorama - PTGui Pro trial version.jpg
Views:	74
Size:	259.6 KB
ID:	1001Click image for larger version

Name:	R0028968 Panorama - PTGui Pro trial version-1.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	254.7 KB
ID:	1000

    Hope this helps, fell free to ask.
    Heinz
    Last edited by hindenhaag; 08-05-2013 at 04:01 AM.
  15. #15

    Quote Originally Posted by otioti View Post
    So in order to find the good upper arm position I tried the trick with the sticker on the window, focussing on a object in a further distance. Later on when I tried it again with a object within a closer distance, it seemed like I had to recalibrate again.
    If you change the focus setting of the lens, the position of the entrance pupil will probably change too, depending on the lens design. So you may need to work out settings for the focus settings you intend to use.

    I stitched your images perfectly without any breaks in the line features. There's a big problem in that the overlap between images 11 and 0 doesn't contain any clear features for control points. nevertheless, I was able to use an advanced technique for getting good alignment of the lines at the top of the wall. This involved placing special line control points and using the alternative PanoTools optimizer from the PTGui web site. I also selected automatic adjustment of exposure and white balance to get a good blend. When faced with blank walls etc, it's possible to stick a few post-it notes in strategic places to act as temporary features for control points. These can be easily cloned out in Photoshop after stitching.

    I've uploaded a copy of the final stitch and project file to: http://ge.tt/37UVS1o/v/0?c

    John
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