Re: Newbe Problems

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  1. Re: Newbe Problems

    #1

    Hi All,

    Firstly I am new to this Panorama and Quicktime VR photography.

    I purchased a NN5L and it arrived to other day did some tests yesterday and have varying results, this has generated some questions....

    My set up
    D200 - MB-D200 Grip (This is why I could not go for the NN3 - did not want grip on/off all the time on my D200's)
    Manfrotto 55 Pro
    NN5L + CP
    Sigma 10-20mm On 10mm (Want to try others such as my Nikon 17-55mm 2.8 but sticking with one lens for now!)

    My technique
    I am obviously fixing the aperture (and currently shutter speed for entire pan - would software cope with exposure change in half the images?).
    Focus currently on Auto and offset to avoid focus on NN head - Should this be on Manual? (Do you use depth of field to gain max sharpness area?)

    If I shoot at 0deg tilt (6 images) I then need to shoot a zenith image and two nadir images 180deg or 90deg out. I took these outside and with a windy day it appeared impossible to stitch with the zenith shot as the clouds had moved? Is this a common problem?

    I have also tried shooting 6 images at +60deg up then -30deg or -60deg down but this has not been very successful. (Gaps and problems with clouds in sky)

    I have tried bracketing to shoot as HDR but left this for now until pano is perfected.

    The most success I have had is an internal church shot taken 8 images at +30deg then 8 images at -30deg then a zenith (roof) image and two nadir (floor) images, In PTGui this was almost perfect, apart from one small misalignment.

    I realise that I have several questions here and some answers may be obvious to some (maybe I should know as a semi pro!) but any answers and tips would be greatly appreciated in this exciting new area (for me).

    Regards,
    Steve.



  2. Re: Newbe Problems

    #2

    Hi Steve,
    Once setup properly your NN5L will work flawlessly. I believe your issues may be isolated to the techniques you use, especially because of your varying results.
    You do not want to change your focus between shots as this creates all sorts of problems. All exposures/focus should be the same throughout the shooting sequence. I believe most (myself included) find using an aperture of no less than f/8 (f/16 for outdoors) to work best for increased depth of view.
    With the D200/10mm you could shot 6 around (with slight tilt up approx 40 degrees to catch zenith) then one shot down.
    Try these suggestions and let us know how you go.
    Thanks
    Bill

    [edited to reflect 40degree tilt]
  3. Re: Newbe Problems

    #3

    I am 99% sure when I shot with 30 deg up tilt I still had a black hole at the top of the shot?
    (Yes the lens was on 10mm)

    Shooting with 6, 8 or more images I guess if I shot at 20mm some time then I would need 8 or 12 to cover everything, but sticking with 10mm for now is their any disadvantage in shooting a few more images or is more always better?

    Thank you for your time.
    Steve.
  4. Re: Newbe Problems

    #4

    Steve, You are right about a tilt upwards of 30 degrees. It isn't enough to close the zenith hole. You need 40 degrees. You can test possibilities using the Panorama Editor. Just start a new project and add a few images (contents unimportant). Set the lens parameters to 10mm rectilinear with appropriate crop factor. Set output to 360x180 equirectangular. You can then just drag the images into different positions or enter pitch, yaw and roll values on the Image Parameters tab. (The Fill Yaw button is useful for setting incrementing yaw values to a selected set of images).

    John
  5. Re: Newbe Problems

    #5

    Quote Originally Posted by John Houghton View Post
    Steve, You are right about a tilt upwards of 30 degrees. It isn't enough to close the zenith hole. You need 40 degrees.
    John
    40 degrees - wow - this much? I never really looked other than just through the viewfinder to make zenith was covered. But then I find the old rule of 6 around 1 up and 1 down the best for the 10.5mm. You get stuck with the old pattern of what works.
    Thanks for the input John - you're certainly a valued member.
    Cheers
    Bill
  6. Re: Newbe Problems

    #6

    First of all I tried shooting up at 10deg but was unable to attach a nadir image as I had to few points.

    I have then tried shooting again at 30deg up tilt then 30deg down tilt. All 16 images (2 rotations) is a real mess in PTGui, I have for test purposes tried to join just 8 at a time, one pano at 30deg up and the other at 30deg down. This joins ok BUT... The 30deg up still has a black hole, its small but is there, I have shot a zenith but wanted to try without first.

    I need to make sure I am using PTGui correctly and maybe upload some of my shots to my web space to a clearer explanation of the problems.

    Thanks for your help so far!
    Steve.
  7. Re: Newbe Problems

    #7

    Sorry correction to my last post......

    I did not shoot at +30deg -30deg it WAS +40deg -40deg. But the +40deg still produced a hole in the sky.

    Steve.
  8. Re: Newbe Problems

    #8
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
    Posts: 2,434

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Bailey View Post
    40 degrees - wow - this much? I never really looked other than just through the viewfinder to make zenith was covered. But then I find the old rule of 6 around 1 up and 1 down the best for the 10.5mm. You get stuck with the old pattern of what works.
    Thanks for the input John - you're certainly a valued member.
    Cheers
    Bill

    Bill,

    Steve uses Sigma 10-20mm at 10mm, not your 10.5mm fisheye lens.

    nick



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  9. Re: Newbe Problems

    #9
    Users Country Flag
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Hong Kong
    Posts: 2,434

    Quote Originally Posted by SRPhoto View Post
    Sorry correction to my last post......

    I did not shoot at +30deg -30deg it WAS +40deg -40deg. But the +40deg still produced a hole in the sky.

    Steve.
    Here is the recommended setting from vrwave.com


    Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX DC

    * 1.5x=15-30mm, HFOV: 100¬? - 62¬? | VFOV: 77¬? - 44¬? | DFOV: 111¬? - 72¬?
    * Min. shots (1.5x, 1.6x): N, 6 images every 60¬? at -30¬? pitch, 6 images every 60¬? at +30¬?, Z
    * Recommended (1.5x, 1.6x): N, 4 images every 90¬? at -60¬? pitch, 8 images every 45¬? at 0¬? pitch, 4 images every 90¬? at +60¬? pitch, no zenith image required
    * Alternative (1.5x, 1.6x): N, 8 images every 45¬? at -30¬? pitch, 8 images every 45¬? at +30¬? pitch, Z



    N means Nadir/ -90 deg shot. Z means Zenith/ +90 deg shot.
    for the recommended setting (4 images every 90¬? at -60¬? pitch, 8 images every 45¬? at 0¬? pitch, 4 images every 90¬? at +60¬? pitch, no zenith image required), you are going to use the 45 deg / n8 detent ring.
    Read this post for more info about shooting interval and use of detent ring.
    http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=123.0

    To deal with moving clouds, you need to resort to post editing such as cut and paste and blending. No one will know the clouds are not the ones you saw. The programs such as Enblend and Smartblend should make your life easier. They can be run from many stitching programs. I am no expert, so I hope people with more experience can help.

    Nick



    Fanotec
    We listen. We try harder.
  10. Re: Newbe Problems

    #10

    Thank you Nick Fan.

    The information you have provided is very useful.....

    It does throw you a bit when you try to take 6/8 shots at zero tilt, then zenith and nadir and it does not work!
    I can see how 45 deg would complete the "sky" as 40 deg almost does it.  I will try your suggestion later. 

    Would people still recommend a zenith shot for a church roof etc. with lots of detail?

    Thank you.
  11. Re: Newbe Problems

    #11

    I have tried to shoot as you suggested Nick and it appears to work. (Nadir, 8 Shots @ 0deg, 4 shots @+60deg and 4 shots @-60deg) I did not need to use the Zenith shot.

    I have put a few examples on a web page I know they need a lot more work, but its a start!
    (Garden shot taken with the above set-up)
    http://www.srphotography.co.uk/vr/

    Comments?

    Steve.
  12. Re: Newbe Problems

    #12

    Quote Originally Posted by SRPhoto View Post
    I took these outside and with a windy day it appeared impossible to stitch with the zenith shot as the clouds had moved? Is this a common problem?
    In addition to Nick's advice, the best way I've found to deal with clouds in simply to move fast. Once you get used the equipment, you can get pretty fast at moving through the sequence. The detents and markings on the pano head help you reliably get the head positioned quickly between shots. Working fast also helps reduce the chance that lighting will change (from clouds moving over the sun) or that wind will blow up and start moving objects.
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