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  • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

    Originally posted by DennisS View Post
    CNC = Computer Numerical Control. A computer and servo motors are hooked up to a mill or lathe. A machinist writes a program to make a part. The machine is very accurate at positioning the tool repeatedly at the same point. You still have to know how to machine a part.

    Cast aluminum is a way of constructing parts using a hollow cavity and melted aluminum. Engine blocks are about the best example of a cast part. Casting, when done right, yields very good parts. I think all of the NN3 and NN5 rails are cast (Nick, correct me if I am wrong here).

    The cost of CNC is much higher than casting for production parts. Prototypes are almost always cnc'd. The quality is not necessarily lower with casting. Many small gun parts are high precision castings. Car rims are a lot of times cast. Casting is a good way to manufacture quality parts at the lowest costs possible.

    Unless you now what to look for, a non machinist will probably not be able to tell the difference between the CNC made swivel and a casted swivel. No worries.
    Thanks for that DennisS - we need a post with good explanation of the processing. Many people do not realize why some things have higher cost than others. And then you have to also factor in the cost of buying these machines - they are not cheap!
    cheers
    Bill

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    • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

      Originally posted by nick fan View Post
      CNC machined version can be anodized and has better and more durable finishing.
      Die cast version use an alloy which is not good for anodizing. so they are painted. Finishing is less durable.
      As a matter of fact, we continue to tweak the design based on feedback and suggestions from early users. It is not uncommon that a product gets minor enhancements in later batches.
      Nick
      And we also get the occasional customer asking if our pano heads come in different colors

      Bill

      Comment


      • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

        Originally posted by Bill Bailey View Post
        Thanks for that DennisS - we need a post with good explanation of the processing. Many people do not realize why some things have higher cost than others. And then you have to also factor in the cost of buying these machines - they are not cheap!
        cheers
        Bill
        (This is not really directed at Bill, but more for information sake.)
        The biggest reasons one of your competitor’s pano head is so expensive is because they do not make enough pieces each time they set up the CNC machine in order to bring the final cost down. There is a cost in just setting up the machine. The more pieces you make, the more you spread out the cost of the set up between each piece. Once a machine is set up, you can run 1 part or 10,000 parts. The set up cost is the same. Unfortunately if you do not sell all the parts, you end up sitting on the inventory for longer than planned. That is something called planning.

        The same thing is true for casting. The time it takes to set up the casting machine is the same, no matter how many parts you run. The difference is that casting a part is so much cheaper than machining a part. If you design a casted part correctly, it comes out of the mold completed (except for deburring and painting).

        Nick has made a small run of the swivels using CNC fabrication. That gets the part to market. If enough people buy the swivel, and demand continues, casting becomes a very attractive alternative. Making a mold can cost $10,000 (+ or - a few K) and up. That cost needs to be spread out over the parts that get made during the life of the mold. Some molds do wear out and need to be repaired or replaced.

        The previously mentioned competition (whose name cannot be said) CNC everything. Nothing is cast. While I have never used one, I am quite sure their pano head is a thing of beauty and works great. The cost, however, puts the price out of way too many people's hands.

        For those of you who have seen my pano head, it takes me two days to manually machine the parts on my old WW2 Bridgeport mill. If I had a modern day mill, I could get that done in 1/2 the time and probably make 5 of them at once. For me to take the time to play in my garage in order to make my own stuff, time is not an issue. To start producing the pano head for market, that is a completely different story. Who out there would pay me for two days worth of labor plus the bit you would still have to purchase from Bill? Nobody would. About a dozen people have asked me, but are not willing to pay. No biggie. Nick has finally produced the design (ring mount, 180 swivel). I can't wait until it finally goes on sale. I may just break down and buy one.

        Sorry to go on and on about machining parts. Machining is a hobby of mine (it was my profession for over 15 years). Photography is a hobby but does not pay the bills. I am just not good enough and there is way too much competition.

        Comment


        • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

          Thanks DennisS, for these explanations!

          Most of it I already knew. But it is very interesting for me (German) to read all these specific, not daily used, idioms in English.

          I guess that there is another competitor in Germany with the same problem regarding the price and low amount of pieces in cnc production. But this is another story.

          Cheers,

          Andreas

          Comment


          • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

            It's probably inconsequential to the design and usage of what we're talking about but my impression was that machined parts are generally more durable than those that are from casting?

            George

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            • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

              Originally posted by gt_nninja View Post
              It's probably inconsequential to the design and usage of what we're talking about but my impression was that machined parts are generally more durable than those that are from casting?

              George
              true for our products.

              nick
              Fanotec
              We listen. We try harder.

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              • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

                OK. I just got my nadir adapter just arrived and I have it on the NN5. Any tips on its use? How far do you move the tripod? Is it critical that the camera is "restored" to its original position when taking the nadir shot? Any & all tips appreciated to cut down on the trial & error cycle.

                George

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                • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

                  Measure from the center line of the pivot point to the center line of the lens. Double that and you have the amount you will need to move the tripod over. Using your favorite graphics editing software, you will need to rotate the patch shot 180 degrees so it will line up with the Nadir shot.

                  http://www.dlsphoto.net/Tutorials/NadirPatch2/index.htm

                  Make sure you orient your tripod and pano head correctly before you start. Go to the above link and you will see what your pictures should look. In order to orient my pano head, I had to use some paper shims between the tripod and head.

                  You may need to get a short center column, as a normal length column may extend down into the picture and overlap the tripod leg in the Nadir shot.

                  Before moving the tripod over, put a lens cap or something on the ground directly under the tripod. Use this as a reference when sliding the tripod over. Practice a few times and you will see you do not have to be precise, but you do need to pay attention to what you are doing. I carry two small rulers with me. After taking the Nadir shot, I put them on the ground next to the tripod legs, move the rig over, then pick up the rulers. Piece of cake.

                  It will be very interesting to see how this device impacts people's workflow. Some may embrace it, others may dismiss it without even trying it, still others may decide that hand held patch shots are quicker. Whatever gets the job done.

                  Comment


                  • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

                    Originally posted by DennisS View Post
                    http://www.dlsphoto.net/Tutorials/NadirPatch2/index.htm
                    Thanks for link that explains easily how to process nadir shots for seamless stitch
                    French Nodal Ninja Distributor
                    Blog: http://www.skivr.com
                    Online shop: http://magasin.skivr.com
                    Photo gallery: http://flickr.com/skivr
                    Support website: http://support.skivr.com

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                    • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

                      Another question, what is the speed screw for? It doesn't seem to control the friction when swinging the adapter. Thanks.

                      George

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                      • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

                        Originally posted by gt_nninja View Post
                        Another question, what is the speed screw for? It doesn't seem to control the friction when swinging the adapter. Thanks.

                        George
                        You mean the screw handle? It tightens the nadir adapter, prevents it from moving.


                        nick
                        Fanotec
                        We listen. We try harder.

                        Comment


                        • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

                          Originally posted by nick fan View Post
                          You mean the screw handle? It tightens the nadir adapter, prevents it from moving.


                          nick
                          I can open the adapter with the same effort when the screw handle is hand-tightened as when it's loose.

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                          • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

                            Originally posted by gt_nninja View Post
                            I can open the adapter with the same effort when the screw handle is hand-tightened as when it's loose.
                            Might be that your screw isn't tightening because the handle isn't in the right position. It's a progressive screw-handle - you "lift it up" and turn it the opposite of the tightening direction (then drop it back onto the screw) to allow it to fully tighten the screw without hitting the post.

                            Just a thought...

                            Mine is as tight as a drum, and I can't open the adapter with it locked (which is handy when I pick up the whole rig and move it).

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                            • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

                              Originally posted by panoguy View Post
                              Might be that your screw isn't tightening because the handle isn't in the right position. It's a progressive screw-handle - you "lift it up" and turn it the opposite of the tightening direction (then drop it back onto the screw) to allow it to fully tighten the screw without hitting the post.

                              Just a thought...

                              Mine is as tight as a drum, and I can't open the adapter with it locked (which is handy when I pick up the whole rig and move it).
                              Actually on mine the thumb screw doesn't hit the post when mounted on the adapter. The pivot point also feels like it's spring-loaded. There's resistance between "click" positions and the "clicks" are at 45 degrees. Maybe I'll make a video with my 7D and post

                              Comment


                              • Re: NEW NODAL NINJA PRODUCTS

                                Originally posted by gt_nninja View Post
                                Actually on mine the thumb screw doesn't hit the post when mounted on the adapter. The pivot point also feels like it's spring-loaded. There's resistance between "click" positions and the "clicks" are at 45 degrees. Maybe I'll make a video with my 7D and post
                                And here's the video: http://misc.sinugba.com/adapter. I was right behind the camera during this presentation with the flash mounted Rode SVM right under my nose so excuse the breathing

                                George

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