Nikon 14-24 2.8 Spherical Pano's [Archive] - Nodal Ninja Forum

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Kidraver
09-09-2013, 02:09 PM
i have spent 15 minutes using the search feature but could not get a relevant response, although i know there are threads regarding this issue, which is how to take spherical panoramas using a nikon 14-24 2.8 zoom lens, i have a M1 with the rd16 base, am keen to upgrade both upper and lower rotators at some point, i have to get the nadir accessory, so if someone can point me to a guide or something that would be great.

nick fan
09-09-2013, 08:53 PM
what is your camera? do you have a nadir adapter?

nick

Kidraver
09-09-2013, 09:27 PM
what is your camera? do you have a nadir adapter?

nick
Cheers Nick, i have a D800e, i do not have a nadir adapter, is there a difference in the vertical expander and the nadir adapter? i have the m1 ultimate and the 14-24 lens, saw a spherical pano someone did with the same kit and am dead keen to have a go, lol, good money to be made with that trick, if you know of any good starting point instructional stuff would like that.

hindenhaag
09-10-2013, 12:08 AM
Hi,

You should use the Nadir Adapter plus the spacer you can order from Nick for your lens.

http://www.easypano.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=4162
http://www.johnhpanos.com/epcalib.htm
http://www.frankvanderpol.nl/fov_pan_calc.htm
http://www.vrwave.com/panoramic-lens-database/nikon/
http://dofmaster.com/doftable.html

http://www.panoguide.com/howto/;jsessionid=AECEFDF292A5003A87793A1995E94079

It's not that easy shooting a pano to go out and do it like plug and play. You have to learn a lot.
The links will help you.

Heinz

Kidraver
09-10-2013, 12:36 AM
Thanks for that, i will start with getting the kit from Nick, i seem to remember a year or so ago that there was a thread specifically about the issues faced with making spherical pano's with the 14-24 and M1 that i thought would be a good place to start my research, anyway i am sure it will be ok.

nick fan
09-10-2013, 07:43 AM
Cheers Nick, i have a D800e, i do not have a nadir adapter, is there a difference in the vertical expander and the nadir adapter? i have the m1 ultimate and the 14-24 lens, saw a spherical pano someone did with the same kit and am dead keen to have a go, lol, good money to be made with that trick, if you know of any good starting point instructional stuff would like that.

What camera plate are you using? The vertical extender is lighter and cheaper. But it only add extra vertical clearance. The Nadir adapter however allows you to quickly swing out the camera to take an unobstructed view. Excellent accessory for taking nadir image at low light.
You don't need to replace the rotators.

Nick

Kidraver
09-10-2013, 09:39 AM
ok Nick i will upgrade the rotators later, must say i am very impressed with the new items, puts NN in front of the pack i think, i am looking for specifics about what angles to use on the M1 with the 14-24 and any other specific info for that setup, so if anyone has anything to help would like to hear it, thnaks

hindenhaag
09-10-2013, 10:52 AM
I think this is what you are looking for:

http://ge.tt/6MiZpUp/v/0

http://vimeo.com/65994333

http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/showthread.php?4550-Settings-for-M1-sorry-only-for-Nikonians&highlight=settings

Heinz

Kidraver
09-10-2013, 11:27 AM
Thanks Heinz, you have a comprehensive educational package you could market, can i start practising without the nadir adaptor? also do NN make a monopod setup like some other firms do? that would need an 8mm fe lens though, thats another barrel of monkeys to sort out, thanks, have been focusing on getting a timelapse kit together recently but am keen to add spherical pano's to the list of products on my web page, cheers.

hindenhaag
09-10-2013, 11:53 AM
I would add the Nadir Adaptor definitely. For 14-24mm you have to ask nick for the spacer as well to get in zenith position without bumping into the rail.

For panos you should really go for a fisheye lens to be able to shoot in busy places. 14-24 gives a higher resolution. But it takes time to shoot. The best for you would be the 16mm/f2.8 to shoot 6 plus around or a shaved 10.5 to shoot 4 around plus Zenith and 2 Nadir.

There is an 8mm lens, the Sigma 8mm/f3.5. It goes soft very soon and to my oppinion you'll be better off with the Nikkor lenses. In first case I bought a Sigma to be able to shoot 4 around, but being disappointed I changed to Nikkor lenses. Before I would get another Sigma I'd get a Samyang
8mm/f3.5. A manual lens but I fell optical quality is better, and it's around 300€.

http://ge.tt/7OBB1El/v/0
http://ge.tt/4gs9DPk/v/0
http://ge.tt/4FhsdIk/v/0

The pics are taken with 0°, +5°, +7.5° around, 2x +60° 180°visa versa. You can use them to test stitching in PTGuiPro for example.

Instead of a monopod Nodal Ninja Fanotec have decided to develop the Pole System. You can use this as a monopod as well without raising it.
I would recommend in first case a Pole 2 Lower Unit to begin with and add an RS-1 as panohead with the NN3, NN4, NN5 Nadir Adapter added to it.
You can use it with the fisheye lenses I mentioned, add a lens ring for your lens, and off you go shooting in NPP so no problems shooting Zenith and Nadirs.

http://ge.tt/4U6LheQ

So right now I believe you got a lot of information enough for the whole weekend.:th_wink:

BTW: would be nice to add your country flag.

Heinz

Kidraver
09-10-2013, 12:10 PM
yea making fast sphericals is the aim with the monopod, getting in and out of some places is key, shopping malls are like that, i will see about a new lens in a bit, i will stay with nikkor, so i can practice without the nadir and stitch in ptgui or photoshop for a spherical without a top or bottom? thanks for the fast response and the benefit of your experience,

hindenhaag
09-10-2013, 12:17 PM
I've send pic for you to test with.
You need another panohead on the pole, the RS-1.

Re read my post because it takes time to add all the links.

Concerning Nadir Adapter use you have to test the DPD = double pivot distance for the D800 yourself. It is important that you have free space bet the tip of the leg in Nadir1 and the corner of the Nadir Adapter in Nadir2. It depends on the tripod you use as well.

http://ge.tt/1lIJsUb/v/0

This is part of Nodal Ninja and Fanotec Service with which I try to get you on the road. Though I am a private person. Pleasure.

Feel free to ask,
Heinz

Kidraver
09-10-2013, 01:17 PM
i have saved the links to my tutorial favorite folder, i downloaded the 16mm sigma bathroom shots, how do i read those? i have read your posts, i will have to have a go then, without the nadir shots, cheers

Kidraver
09-10-2013, 05:43 PM
do i have to load the images from the 16mm folder you gave me the link for into ptgui? i just read the michel thoby tutorial, that is exactly the gear i need, his shots are awesome, i am a bit confused about the kind of files that are made and if any special software is need to play them, cheers.

hindenhaag
09-10-2013, 10:07 PM
Use PTGuiPro. You can download a trial. www.PTGuiPro

Heinz

Kidraver
09-10-2013, 10:19 PM
thanks Heinz, do ptgui have tutorials about using this stiching technique, i should google that, am absolutely new to this, i have used ptgui for single row stuff, i attached a shot i took using NN stuff, just single row though, i just got a new gitzo series five tripod and am keen to use the M1 ultimate on that, thanks for the info, i was sure there is stuff already on threads but if i put the lens name into the search engine here nothing happens, cheers

John Houghton
09-10-2013, 11:53 PM
thanks Heinz, do ptgui have tutorials about using this stiching technique, i should google that, am absolutely new to this, i have used ptgui for single row stuff
If you can stitch single row panoramas with PTGui, then you can stitch multi-row panoramas too. There is no essential difference, as PTGui's stitcher has no concept of rows and columns. Nor is there anything special about zenith and nadir images that are shot simply by rotating the camera up/down whilst maintaining the no-parallax viewpoint. All that's required is that the images overlap to provide complete coverage and control points are assigned between immediate neighbouring images. For a nadir shot taken with the camera offset from the position used for the main set of shots, then you can invoke viewpoint correction to apply perspective correction to ensure good alignment. There are viewpoint correction tutorials at the PTGui web site and on my site at http://www.johnhpanos.com.

John

Kidraver
09-11-2013, 12:42 AM
you have nailed my newbie fears John, the bit about nadirs and whether you have to line them up or something or other has been a a source of confusion, lol, as an old technophobe i will have to do some reiki or something then relax and do some real practical stuff then the tips and stuff will make more sense, will be ordering my nadir extender and shim and will hopefully be producing within a week or so, if all goes well, i have had the M1 for over a year and have not made a multi row pano yet, just viewed some of your shots, they look really great, the Ilfracombe shot really is wonderful, what a beautiful place England is, i would be really happy producing that quality, the sigma lenses are really very good, i had a look at the big fast 50mm they make, lots of glass.

Johnytuono
09-11-2013, 01:51 PM
Hi Kidraver
I am just starting out on this long voyage of panography and (so far) I am shooting with a D800 and 14-24mm. My first few panos I thought I had the NPP spot on but on closer looking I was a little out. I am still experimenting and so far am now undecided whether the UPPER rail is best at 154 or 155mm. I'm pretty sure the LOWER rail is 136mm, this is with the vertical rail on the Nadir adapter in the 'normal' position (the vertical rail can be mounted 2 ways on the adapter to give more clearance). Heinz and a few others have measured the LOWER (LRS) rail at 135.5 but I am using a Kirk 'L' bracket so I'm assuming it's a different thickness. Also the mark on my Kirk bracket I feel is slightly confusing me because it doesn't 'seem' to run down the centre of the lens axis. In fact, since I've re-positioned the plate my alignment seems to be great, and the last 2 indoor 360's I did had no stitching errors. I am thinking of buying the U3 camera plate though to eliminate me having to 'think' when mounting the camera to the Ninja.
Any UPPER (URS) setting above 154mm will need the adapter that Heinz mentioned to heighten the vertical rail, although, I did a Zenith shot not quite straight up and it stitched great.
I am using a Manfrotto 055xproB tripod and when set at the average height it probably would be better with a shorter centre column as there isn't much room for error, although, again, I moved the tripod further than necessary for the Nadir2 shot and the stitching was great.
Software-wise I've tried both Autopano and PtGui and, for me, PTGui is way more user-friendly and the masking tool (just like Photoshop) is easy to use.
I do feel the Nikon 16mm is an easier option though, certainly for indoors and that will probably be my next purchase, along with a shorter column, a camera plate a..............................lol
I hope this information can be of use, and indeed, these forums are full of people willing to assist you, learning has never been so much fun!!
Happy pano-ing
John

Kidraver
09-11-2013, 02:03 PM
Cheers Johnytouno, that is indeed very helpful, i have used some of the test shots and have managed to make a spherical pano with them in ptgui, what happens after that? how do i turn that into a scrollable spherical pano, need to research a bit more, will be getting the nadir attachment delivered next week, then i will start, hope you dont mind if i ask simple questions, i think the fast pano's from a monopod has commercial appeal, car interiors for flash dealers, knock out some sphericals for 100aud a pop, min 5, lol, anyway nice to meet you and i have added all the guys who assisted on this thread as my new best friends, lol, cheeers

Johnytuono
09-11-2013, 02:23 PM
I use Pano2VR for the 360 spherical pano. Download the program and drag your stitched pano onto the Pano2VR icon (or you can load from inside the Pano2VR program). Then in the centre window there is an 'add' button ( I add it as Flash) and it then creates the 360 where you can look around the scene. I haven't got my head round Pano2vr yet so that is a simplified version.
I did as you did though and practised on Heinz and John H photos, it made life a lot easier when I took my own pictures. As I said before, basically you, like all of us, are learning quite a few things, shooting panos, PTgui and I suppose Pano2vr (or other software) for presentation.
I was really puzzled about the Nadir and Zenith shots ( what language is this I thought), but once you actually take the shots it all fits in to place........eventually lol. I am no way an expert btw but I feel I am learning...a lot.
Most of all.....Have fun!
John

Kidraver
09-11-2013, 02:36 PM
Thanks so much for that, that really clears things up a bit, will get pano2vr, yea the learning curve is steep, am really into timelapse atm as well which has been a journey as well, with spherical pano's i will have a few commercially viable features for my upcoming website,have ordered the nadir adaptor, can i make a spherical without the nadir using my 14-24? it is two rows of 6 at +/- 30degrees with one zenith and two nadirs, i have read a tute from michel thoby, he says you can do a spherical with 8 shots using a 14mm lens, is that right? cheers.

Johnytuono
09-11-2013, 02:48 PM
Hi
I've always done the 2 rows around at +/- 30. I bought the M1 with the adapter so I can't answer with certainty about the Nadir. Try and swivel it so it points straight down for the Nadir (I think it clears the rail) then take another (after moving the tripod) but obviously at angle ( this is called Nadir2 or N2), then in PtGui make sure you 'check' the Viewpoint Correction (VP) box. The Zenith shot won't be pointed straight up because the Nadir adapter gives you that extra (although not enough, hence the additional plate) clearance but I feel it probably will still stitch. If you decide not to take a Nadir shot all it will leave (in a spherical pano) is a black round hole. Some people fill this with their own logo etc. Same with the Zenith.......it just leaves a small(ish) black hole. You can still look around the spherical.
Hope this helps...............and I'm in the UK...so I'm off to bed lol.
John

Johnytuono
09-12-2013, 10:31 AM
Hi Kidraver
Well, today I tried the 6 around at 0 degrees and a zenith and Nadir shot and got slight misses where the nadir and zenith didn't quite meet the other images. I turned the head round halfway like Michel Thoby advised (for the zenith) and to be honest there's very very little margin for error. On an important job I certainly wouldn't risk it. I also tried pointing down at 7.5 degrees and obviously this fixed the bottom half but left a bigger gap where the zenith met the rest of the photos. Unless I'm doing something wrong it seems a bit risky, and as you know, other websites advise 2 rows at +/- 30.
Hope this helps.
John

mosleyh
09-12-2013, 11:22 AM
If you're shooting at the wide end of the zoom range, try 6 around at -10 (or -7.5), the zenith at +65 and nadir -90 as normal.

That pattern works well with the Nikkor 16mm, which would be in the same range. The reason I say +65 instead of +90 for the zenith is that +65 gives the stitching program more common image with the 6 roundshots which helps your stitch, especially with outdoor images where a +90 zenith can be almost entirely sky.

John Houghton
09-12-2013, 11:55 AM
Unless I'm doing something wrong it seems a bit risky,
You're not doing anything wrong. You can trial different shooting configurations very simply without taking an photographs. Just add a number of fullframe images into PTGui (it doesn't matter what the images contain). Then lie on the Lens Settings tab about the lens that was supposedly used - 14mm rectilinear at a crop factor of 1. Then set the panorama editor to 360x180 equirectangular, and assign yaw and pitch angles on the Image Parameters tab to test particular shooting patterns. Use Fill Yaw to set a row up quickly. It's easy to see how the images overlap (or don't, as the case may be). Of course, you can also drag the images about. Switching images on/off via the Include Images table on the Create Panorama tab will help in assessing the amount of overlap.

John

smsheridan
09-13-2013, 11:27 AM
I shoot a lot of spherical panos with the Nikkor 14mm f/2.8 on a D4 and shoot 3 rows of 6 shots (every 60 degrees) at 0 degrees, plus 60 and minus 60 degrees plus a nadir shot. You don't need a zenith shot. It works out very well. FYI. If you're pre-processing your images in Adobe Camera Raw, do not use any lens distortion correction in the lens profile. It will crop out some of your overlap and seems to confuse PTGui. I hope this helps.
Steve

Kidraver
10-27-2013, 11:42 AM
this post has been viewed by nearly 700 people, like me they may have found it difficult to get all the info including software and post production in one place, i would find a sticky that gives all the info on all the software necessary for creating Spherical pano's very helpful not just for that lens, i did a fair bit of googling in my search but did not find all the specifics in one spot, am sure Johnny could do a good job, after i get the extender i will be practicing and then i will have a go myself,thanks and happiness to all.:clap:

Johnytuono
10-28-2013, 11:26 AM
Hi Kidraver
I agree a sticky would be very very useful. On the software side, I only 'know' little bits of what I've used through trial and error (and info off here of course) and am no way an expert. Even after the tour (or single 360) is made there's the how-to's of publishing onto your website, which I'm trying to get to grips with at the moment. I am currently trying out Panotour Pro (instead of Pano2VR) and it seems far easier to make a tour (the adding of hotspots and links to other panos etc).
It's a long road my friend, but lots of friendly, informative people on here to give you a lift to your destination.
I like the shot you've posted btw, nice subtle colours and obviously an interesting subject shot well.
Most of all......have fun!
John

Kidraver
10-28-2013, 12:21 PM
Cheers Johnytouno, sphericals are a fairly compex issue, but back in the day when i had a medium format darkroom and was studying Ansel Adams zone system, now that was really tricky, trying to get two stops of extra dynamic range from BandW had to be a chemist almost, in the last few years i have learned how to use cubase which is a music production program that is very complex, anyway i will be receiving my nodal thingy for my 14-24 and will be practicing and probably hassling everyone here for fast info, maybe we could co-produce a piece and use on our websites, guaranteed to get a lot of attention i bet, yea fun filters into the shots, i did read something about adding hotspots recently, that sounds cool, also have you any tips on doing sphericals inside cars, i think there is a market for them in luxury car dealers, i am going to sydney soon and there is a street with all the top dealers, with my new ipad i can blow their minds with some demo pano's and maybe charge 150 each, min 5, could be easy money, i saw one of a vw interior, was very impressive,

Johnytuono
10-28-2013, 02:17 PM
Hi Kidraver
Unfortunately I haven't looked into photographing car interiors but can recommend a view of a Landrover Discovery by Will Pearson (willpearson.co.uk mods if i'm breaking any rules pointing to a site then please delete), he does 360's and Gigapixel images........absolutely superb. John Houghton, who's a regular on this site and has given input on this thread has another excellent site with tutorials too.
I'm currently in the process of emailing a few places (churches etc) to get more material for my site.
Anyway, if I can help, I will, as I too need lots of help/info off the more knowledgeable on here.
John

Kidraver
11-04-2013, 03:14 PM
thanks for that Steve.