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View Full Version : Help naming new lens ring mount spherical pano heads



nick fan
06-21-2012, 09:56 AM
People have been requesting a multi-row lens ring mount pano head. I think it is time to make them happy. :biggrin:
The first model use the vertical rail from NN3 and QRC-40B from the Ultimate line. A new upper rotator is made to fit QRC-40B. Lower rail from NN3 can also be used. But I decide to make a shorter rail to use with the new rotator mini. The result is a compact spherical lens ring mount pano head.
https://fanotec-public.s3.amazonaws.com/A1.jpg
https://fanotec-public.s3.amazonaws.com/A2.jpg
https://fanotec-public.s3.amazonaws.com/A3.jpg

Can you suggest a good name for it? what about one that utilize the lower rail of NN3?

Here is a bigger model using the vertical rail and upper rotator of NN4.
I also make a shorter lower rail for it. For camera and lens above 1.25kg, this model is needed. Of course, rails from Ultimate line can also be used. So it can be a hybrid of NN4 and Ultimate M series.
https://fanotec-public.s3.amazonaws.com/B1.jpg
https://fanotec-public.s3.amazonaws.com/B2.jpg
https://fanotec-public.s3.amazonaws.com/B3.jpg
Can you suggest a good name for it? what about one using the original long lower rail of NN4?

Thx a lot in advance.

Nick

DemonDuck
06-21-2012, 01:18 PM
Those are well engineered products.

But all you had to do was put this:
http://store.nodalninja.com/index.php/lens-ring-for-zuiko-olympus-8mm-f3-5.html
on this:
http://store.nodalninja.com/index.php/arca-swiss-camera-plates-and-clamps/camera-mounting-plate.html

And then we wouldn't have to buy a new upper rotator and install it and then buy a quick release clamp.
Just saying....

That new smaller lower rail looks useful but won't fit on my NN3 rotator.

Terrywoodenpic
06-21-2012, 02:19 PM
The problem here for naming, is that you are doing a mix and match of components from the various systems.
No doubt people will come up with their own selection depending on the camera and lens, that they need to match.

You could have a a section of combined special purpose components.
offering the components that the customer would need to make up a particular configuration.

This would show the various configurations and parts lists ( existing users would only need to purchase additional parts that they did not have)
New users could buy the whole kit.
Naming would then be limited to the full kits. Kit A B C etc.

nick fan
06-21-2012, 08:31 PM
The problem here for naming, is that you are doing a mix and match of components from the various systems.
No doubt people will come up with their own selection depending on the camera and lens, that they need to match.

You could have a a section of combined special purpose components.
offering the components that the customer would need to make up a particular configuration.

This would show the various configurations and parts lists ( existing users would only need to purchase additional parts that they did not have)
New users could buy the whole kit.
Naming would then be limited to the full kits. Kit A B C etc.

Hi Terry,

Yes, naming is challenging in this case. That is why I ask. We will at least have 2 models as shown. They do not include lens ring or upper rail.

Nick

nick fan
06-21-2012, 08:43 PM
Those are well engineered products.

But all you had to do was put this:
http://store.nodalninja.com/index.php/lens-ring-for-zuiko-olympus-8mm-f3-5.html
on this:
http://store.nodalninja.com/index.php/arca-swiss-camera-plates-and-clamps/camera-mounting-plate.html

And then we wouldn't have to buy a new upper rotator and install it and then buy a quick release clamp.
Just saying....

That new smaller lower rail looks useful but won't fit on my NN3 rotator.

The lens ring plate for NN3/4/5 is also ready. So you should also be happy. :-)
Price is $30.

Nick

DemonDuck
06-21-2012, 11:28 PM
Ah... I'm starting to smile....

Terrywoodenpic
06-22-2012, 07:00 AM
Hi Terry,

Yes, naming is challenging in this case. That is why I ask. We will at least have 2 models as shown. They do not include lens ring or upper rail.

Nick

What ever you end up calling these, you must also list the components separately, existing users are always thinking up new unexpected ways to use things.
For naming...
I would invent a new category of "Special component based heads" and name these as multi row ring heads" within that category. adding light duty or heavy duty as required.

DemonDuck
06-22-2012, 09:14 AM
This just popped into my head --- Ring mount adapter kits for XXX --- 'cause that's what they are.

Actually, there is not a general name for the three arm style pano head.

KevinM
06-25-2012, 08:02 AM
How about MRR, pronounced "em are squared" for multi-row ring.
Numbers could be added to the end for different models like MRR3 and MRR4. Not sure about the model using modular parts, maybe MRRM.

Kevin.

DennisS
06-25-2012, 09:26 PM
Does this mean that I don't need to make any more adapters? Darn.

A lens ring mount pano head. Finally a factory option has arrived. Good job.

Nice to see that you put the Arca clamping knob opposite the lens ring clamp. I can't tell you how many times I grabbed the wrong knob. Although for right handed people, it is just a bit awkward. I removed the lens ring knob and replaced it with the bolt that hold on the lens ring knob. Problem solved.

DemonDuck
06-25-2012, 10:07 PM
Does this mean that I don't need to make any more adapters? Darn.
A lens ring mount pano head. Finally a factory option has arrived. Good job.

I remember a lot of nay sayers.

nick fan
06-26-2012, 10:29 AM
Does this mean that I don't need to make any more adapters? Darn.

A lens ring mount pano head. Finally a factory option has arrived. Good job.

Nice to see that you put the Arca clamping knob opposite the lens ring clamp. I can't tell you how many times I grabbed the wrong knob. Although for right handed people, it is just a bit awkward. I removed the lens ring knob and replaced it with the bolt that hold on the lens ring knob. Problem solved.

the smaller model really shines with the Sony Nex system. I guess the lens ring works for lots of Nex lens. I may need to make a longer lens ring plate though.

Nick

DennisS
06-26-2012, 01:59 PM
Does the camera need to be so high? Shortening the vertical arm will make the unit more compact and lighter. With a hand held Nadir patch shot or a Nadir adapter shot, having the camera closer to the rotator should not present an issue. You could even make the clamp and rotator scale all one piece instead of two. Smaller and lighter still.

DennisS
06-26-2012, 05:44 PM
Nick,

You are still thinking too big. A Pano Head for the NEX type of camera can be much smaller. The size difference between the largest fisheye and smallest standard lens cannot be much more than 3/4". Since you will be grabbing onto the lens, that translates into a maximum sideways adjustment of only 3/8" or so. Think inside the box, really small. Size does matter.

Dennis

http://www.dlsphoto.net/Samyang75PanoHead/MiniNN3A.jpg

DemonDuck
06-26-2012, 08:20 PM
I use an SPH2 on my monopod. It's even smaller than the NN3 and there's still dead ends of metal hanging off the lower rail and tilt rail. The vertical rail could be a little shorter depending on which lens.

The NEX cameras are really tiny and light. All current panoheads are way over kill for them.

nick fan
06-26-2012, 10:47 PM
Does the camera need to be so high? Shortening the vertical arm will make the unit more compact and lighter. With a hand held Nadir patch shot or a Nadir adapter shot, having the camera closer to the rotator should not present an issue. You could even make the clamp and rotator scale all one piece instead of two. Smaller and lighter still.

Well, I don't want to make too many new parts. The rig is suitable for most cameras with lens ring clamp.

Nick

Bill Bailey
06-30-2012, 08:11 AM
The number 1 question still continues to be what configuration pano head is best suited for me? We get many phone calls and emails daily from folks overwhelmed with the selection process so they find it find it easier to simply contact us direct. Some calls will go on for 15+ minutes with one answer leading to 2 more questions. Finally after running through every model for their camera and workflow they will leave knowing which is best suited for their needs. And we can tell by talking to them they hardly even bother going through all the information on the website to learn about each model.
We need selection process easier to understand.
IMO since we already have base configurations for each series and most understand the rotator options we could offer a "custom" build option for each series i.e. - NN3 MKII-C, NN4-C. On line when they custom build they start with base components and build as needed with price determined by combination.
The second most visited webpage on our site is the product selector. We're working on next generation interactive product selector as we speak and hope to have it completed in coming weeks.
I would like to see the selection process kept simple so adding C for custom would allow allow those requiring very specific configurations to build to suit rather than selecting from additional models.
We could even have simply NN-C for total custom build.
Bill

nick fan
06-30-2012, 08:26 AM
IMO since we already have base configurations for each series and most understand the rotator options we could offer a "custom" build option for each series i.e. - NN3 MKII-C, NN4-C. On line when they custom build they start with base components and build as needed with price determined by combination.


We could even have simply NN-C for total custom build.
Bill

NN-C sounds good. But I want to create a bundle with R1/10 with the smallest config. So maybe it is better to give it a model name. we can use NN4-C for the NN4 variants because their components are from stock part list.

Nick

Bill Bailey
06-30-2012, 08:37 AM
for each base series:
NN3-C
NN4-C
R-C
M-C

Bill

DemonDuck
06-30-2012, 11:31 AM
In my mind, that only makes it more complicated. And I'm very familiar with your products. A newbie would think that an NN3-C is an entirely different product than the NN3. Like the NEX 3 vs. the NEX c3 -- different product with similar name.

You have the NN3; NN4; R1/10 and M series. Leave it at that and then clearly list the options for each. I think that's the flaw in your web store. The options are sort of all in a pile even though there is a link from each product to those options, once you get into the options, they are not well categorized and segregated.

I could go through a step by step critique of your web site if it would help. The first thing to do is get rid of all those annoying moving introductory pictures. And be more complete for example, on your nodalninja.com site, you only mention the NN3 MKII and the M1 in the sliders. Then in the menu, your Products and Store are all out of sync. And on the Products, you still show the NN5/5L and the NN180 as products when they are discontinued and should be in the discontinued category only.

I could go on but there's really a lot wrong with your store and web site. You should contract a good web designer.

nick fan
06-30-2012, 01:27 PM
About product selection guide.
Let's face the fact. Despite the detailed specs and product brochures, how much time did you spend on selecting a camera, a phone, a printer........
The choice may be very simple - any current one will be fine for you. But if you want the best value for your current and future need, you need to do some home work. Usually, I search for reviews and forums.
our product line is still quite simple, if a customer just want a model suitable for him/her, I can easily make a recommendation. But only he/she can make the best choice for himself/ herself.


Nick

nick fan
06-30-2012, 01:30 PM
for each base series:
NN3-C
NN4-C
R-C
M-C

Bill


An alternative for C (custom) is BTO (built to your order).
What about NN3 BTO? Does it sound better?

Bill Bailey
06-30-2012, 02:21 PM
About product selection guide.
Let's face the fact. Despite the detailed specs and product brochures, how much time did you spend on selecting a camera, a phone, a printer........
The choice may be very simple - any current one will be fine for you. But if you want the best value for your current and future need, you need to do some home work. Usually, I search for reviews and forums.
our product line is still quite simple, if a customer just want a model suitable for him/her, I can easily make a recommendation. But only he/she can make the best choice for himself/ herself.
Nick
I'm sure this is what the majority of people are doing but we still get the questions coming in on phones, emails and FB that we need to answer and certainly don't mind doing so. 99.9% of customers are friendly and a real pleasure to work with. We usually fit most into the NN4 and go up or down from there depending on equipment and workflow.

We will be working on doing up some videos that show all models and maybe even show some side by side comparisons.
Having a display room at our offices is great too for those that live close by and those passing through. We have one customer that enjoys driving up from Tucson (2 hrs) every couple of months just to have hands on with new stuff.
If anyone is every passing through the Phoenix area you're welcome to stop by our offices to see our lineup. It is advisable to call first (480-659-9899) so we make sure we have the time set aside to show you things. Our offices are on ground level and handicap accessible.
Excuse any messes - we are a working office :-)

Bill

Bill Bailey
06-30-2012, 02:23 PM
An alternative for C (custom) is BTO (built to your order).
What about NN3 BTO? Does it sound better?

IMO if it was between C or BTO I would vote for C

DemonDuck
06-30-2012, 03:31 PM
It should just be NN3 and on the NN3 page there should be an Options menu. The NN3 is the base kit and the options are replaceable like the rotator and/or plate. You are making it more complicated than it needs to be.

With your new web site, you don't even need your store anymore. Each page should be the gateway to the product purchase with options. Amazon doesn't have a store -- it is the store. Be like Amazon.

Here's what your first page should look like:

Nodal Ninja full spectrum provider for all your panoramic photography hardware needs. Sold World wide to begining amateurs and leading edge professionals. Our clients include (Google, NASA etc. etc)

Then below that blurb telling people who you are you have a small section on each of NN3; NN4; M series and R series.

For example:

NN3 is a small, light versatile conventional mount panoramic head for single row and multi row panoramas for cameras from compacts to small DSLR's and the new mirrorless cameras.

When the user clicks on that section, he's taken to the page where he can configure and purchase the NN3 and any accessories and go directly to checkout.

Your web site is an implicit questionnaire where the user answers implicit questions and is lead through to the final determination of his needs. You don't need a product selector either.

I think I've probably said too much so I will leave it here .....

Hugh
07-01-2012, 03:24 AM
I think that DemonDuck has a good point here.

Whilst I agree totally with Nick that most prospactive purchasers will do their homework I do think that lots of different suffixes can be confusing and DD's suggestion is used on car websites where the user starts with a model then choses the configuration (e.g. trim, wheels, engine size, fuel, etc.).

As DD suggests, listing the main products with a good description lets the prospective purchaser home in on a product then good explanations of the features and options enable them to decide if this the right choice or to go back and focus on a different product, which is what I do when looking at lenses for example.

Hugh.

Terrywoodenpic
07-01-2012, 08:18 AM
The NN range of heads and components has increased vasltly over the last few years.
The difficulty for a user now, is what can fit to what.

I suspect components need to have a simple way of indicating "what" they can be made to fit.
Such as this componet can fit "A" "b" "C" head, or only "A" "C" Where "ABC" are included in the codes of the heads.

I expect there is doubt in the minds of every one, including the resellers.

Bill Bailey
07-01-2012, 08:34 AM
Great feedback guys and much appreciated. We'll work over the coming months to fine tune things a bit.
We're also monitoring visitor paths with in-depth onsite tracking and advanced analytics. I want to point out also that "most" find what they are looking for. But it's a percentages thing and there will always be a small percentage that still need a bit of guidance with product selection.


Bill

DemonDuck
07-01-2012, 10:16 AM
The NN range of heads and components has increased vasltly over the last few years.
The difficulty for a user now, is what can fit to what.

I suspect components need to have a simple way of indicating "what" they can be made to fit.
Such as this componet can fit "A" "b" "C" head, or only "A" "C" Where "ABC" are included in the codes of the heads.

I expect there is doubt in the minds of every one, including the resellers.

This is why I suggested an Options menu on each specific page. For example, on the NN3 page, only those options and accessories that actually fit and function on the NN3 are listed. Simple decision by exclusion.

More A's and B's and C's and Ultimates and Marks and all that other descriptive verbiage only confuses and becomes even more hard for the web site to stay consistent.

andybryant
09-09-2012, 03:03 PM
Given the current line-up I'd say this looks like a Nodal Ninja 2 to me ;-) Or a NN3-LensMount.

I'm certainly interested... for my OM-D E-M5 + Samyang 7.5mm system, to give me something lighter than the NN3 for back-country hiking and capturing the full 360x180.

Looks like the nadir adaptor would work with this config as well.

Any idea when this will hit the market?

Andy.

andybryant
10-04-2012, 03:38 PM
Hi guys,

Any news on when this will be available?

Cheers, Andy.

nick fan
10-05-2012, 08:06 AM
Hi guys,

Any news on when this will be available?

Cheers, Andy.

US customers can buy it next week. Customers in other area need to wait for resellers to stock it.

Nick

andybryant
10-12-2012, 01:23 PM
US customers can buy it next week. Customers in other area need to wait for resellers to stock it.

Hi Nick,

Is it up on the site yet? I've not been able to find it... (I've got family in the US).

Andy.

Bill Bailey
10-12-2012, 03:22 PM
Hi Nick, Is it up on the site yet? I've not been able to find it... (I've got family in the US). Andy.

Hi Andy - Fanotec's Nodal Ninja RS-1 is now available for purchase.
http://store.nodalninja.com/index.php/pano-heads/nodal-ninja-rs1.html
we'll be tweaking the listing a bit over coming days and adding option to purchase without rotator. If you need RS-1 without rotator let me know through email (bill_at_nodalninja_dot_com) and we can set you up.

Bill

DemonDuck
10-13-2012, 12:14 PM
How many people leave a strap on their camera when they shoot panos? Your web page shows a camera with a strap on the RS-1.

Bill Bailey
10-13-2012, 12:31 PM
How many people leave a strap on their camera when they shoot panos? Your web page shows a camera with a strap on the RS-1.
While this isn't my camera I for one leave a strap on the camera. Even while shooting a pano the strap is still wrapped around my neck as I walk in circles shooting. I would venture to guess many others also leave a strap on their camera.

andybryant
10-24-2012, 03:23 PM
Ok... So I thought I had it sorted... but I'm still confused.

80% of the time I shoot spherical VR / 360x180s with a fish eye lens, but occasionally I come across a scene where I want to put a longer lens on and do a manual-gigapixel style shot. This is the sort of stuff I shoot - http://andy.bryant.name/pano

I'm currently using an Olympus OM-D E-M5 with a Samyang 7.5mm fisheye, and have also used Olympus 12mm, and 45mm lenses for more detailed panos.

My current system is NN3MkII + QR plate + nadir adaptor - which does the job, but to pack it down small in my bag I usually have to break down the upper rail from the lower rail - which takes extra time.

I'd like the ability to pack a smaller & lighter unit for VRs (including nadir coverage) with no assembly required (just attach the lens-mount for the Samyang 7.5mm), with the ability to occasionally add a short upper rail to mount the camera base-plate with say the 45mm for a manual gigapixel shoot.

I think I need the Nodal Ninja RS-1 + rotator mini + nadir adaptor + the upper rail & QR clamp in this picture
https://fanotec-public.s3.amazonaws.com/B3.jpg

Will this work? Which upper rail & QR clamp would I need? Or can I reuse the one from the NN3Mk2?

Will this actually be smaller/lighter than the system I have?

Although actually I'm beginning to think that the NN3MkII is actually pretty close; and I've already got one of these ;-) so perhaps I should just stick with what I've got.

Thoughts?

nick fan
10-25-2012, 09:06 AM
Ok... So I thought I had it sorted... but I'm still confused.

80% of the time I shoot spherical VR / 360x180s with a fish eye lens, but occasionally I come across a scene where I want to put a longer lens on and do a manual-gigapixel style shot. This is the sort of stuff I shoot - http://andy.bryant.name/pano

I'm currently using an Olympus OM-D E-M5 with a Samyang 7.5mm fisheye, and have also used Olympus 12mm, and 45mm lenses for more detailed panos.

My current system is NN3MkII + QR plate + nadir adaptor - which does the job, but to pack it down small in my bag I usually have to break down the upper rail from the lower rail - which takes extra time.

I'd like the ability to pack a smaller & lighter unit for VRs (including nadir coverage) with no assembly required (just attach the lens-mount for the Samyang 7.5mm), with the ability to occasionally add a short upper rail to mount the camera base-plate with say the 45mm for a manual gigapixel shoot.

I think I need the Nodal Ninja RS-1 + rotator mini + nadir adaptor + the upper rail & QR clamp in this picture
https://fanotec-public.s3.amazonaws.com/B3.jpg

Will this work? Which upper rail & QR clamp would I need? Or can I reuse the one from the NN3Mk2?

Will this actually be smaller/lighter than the system I have?

Although actually I'm beginning to think that the NN3MkII is actually pretty close; and I've already got one of these ;-) so perhaps I should just stick with what I've got.

Thoughts?

In your case, I can't see much advantage for changing to NN RS1. It may not fit your camera with rails and QR system. The RS1 is just make big enough for the lens rings. The picture shown is an NN4 variant.
with rail stops, you can setup and break down NN3 easily.

BTW, Nice panos on your site.

Nick

andybryant
10-25-2012, 12:16 PM
In your case, I can't see much advantage for changing to NN RS1. It may not fit your camera with rails and QR system. The RS1 is just make big enough for the lens rings. The picture shown is an NN4 variant.
with rail stops, you can setup and break down NN3 easily.

BTW, Nice panos on your site.

Hi Nick,

Many thanks for confirming what I had suspected, and thanks again for the comment on the panos :)

Andy.