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liaock
05-25-2012, 04:22 PM
Hi ..
I just bought the R1 ( jan/12) .. and since then i am trying to set up the R1 without sucess ... I am using Sigma 8mm f/3,5 for Nikon ... 04 shots ... at 0 degree ..

In the user guide manual ( http://www.nodalninja.com/Manuals/R1_QRG.pdf ) it is wrote to use NPP value 1.2 ...... but in this post ( http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/showthread.php?3603-R1-NPP-sigma-8mm-F3.5 ) it is wrote to use 2.25 and in the same post Heinz wrote that he used 2.2

I tried all the settings above ( 1.2 / 2.25 / 2.2 ) and also 1.2 / 1.3 / 1.4 / 1.5 / 1.6 / 1.7 / 1.8 / 1.9 / 2.0 / 2.1 / 2.2 / 2.3 / 2.4 and 2.5 ... and all settings i have stitching errors !!

Any idea ?
Thanks
Liao

John Houghton
05-25-2012, 11:35 PM
Liao, Stitching errors aren't necessarily due to poor setup of the head; your use of the stitching software might well be the problem. You can set up the R1 head accurately and easily in no more than 5-10 minutes, without shooting any images. See http://www.johnhpanos.com/epcalib.htm .

John

Hugh
05-26-2012, 03:56 AM
Hello Liao,

I use an R1 with a Sigma 4.5mm and stitch with PTGui - 4 shots round with Nikon DX, so with a Sigma 8mm 4 shots round should be OK for FX, but 6 shots round for DX (personally I would use 8 shots round for DX as it gives more overlap for using the Mask tool).

For a Sigma 8mm I would use the gold ring for the NNP
http://hugha.co.uk/NodalPoint/Index.htm#Sigma%208mm

Hope this helps, Hugh.

liaock
05-29-2012, 12:45 PM
Hi John and Hugh ...
I calibrated my R1 according to http://www.johnhpanos.com/epcalib.htm .... and i got the NPP at 3,40 ...( my lens is sigma 8mm f/3,5 and Fuji S5 -based on nikon d200 ) .... so i shooted 4 and 6 shots ... and i stitched with PTgui ... even 4 or 6 shots i got stitch errors ..
the photo are here ....( sorry .. i do not know how to attach photo here ) ... http://www.mediafire.com/?je7mfsiq6j47a17 and http://www.mediafire.com/?w7b0w90fiusob1i ... if you use the devalvr to see it .. you will notice that the first one the nadir is a perfect square and the second one is perfect six sided ... but in the zenith i have stitching errors ...
Any suggestions ?
Thanks a lot .
Liao

DennisS
05-29-2012, 01:55 PM
Add control points at the top of each image pair. I seldom get a great stitch relying only on automatic generated control points.

Also, delete all control points that are on image pairs that are not next to each other. That can throw off a stitch.

I usually do not see a panorama stitch properly on the very first try. It usually takes a couple of extra control points to set things right.

It would also help if you provided the full set of images so we can do a test stitch.

You can tilt this camera up 5 degrees and remove the need for the Zenith shot. 4 around + a hand held Nadir patch shot and you have captured the entire sphere.

liaock
05-29-2012, 02:50 PM
Add control points at the top of each image pair. I seldom get a great stitch relying only on automatic generated control points.

Also, delete all control points that are on image pairs that are not next to each other. That can throw off a stitch.

I usually do not see a panorama stitch properly on the very first try. It usually takes a couple of extra control points to set things right.

It would also help if you provided the full set of images so we can do a test stitch.

You can tilt this camera up 5 degrees and remove the need for the Zenith shot. 4 around + a hand held Nadir patch shot and you have captured the entire sphere.



Hi Dennis ..
In the PTgui i use automatic control points .. and after that i add some couple extra points .. but still i get stitching errors ..
I will try 5 degree up ..
anyway .. the original photos are here ... http://www.mediafire.com/?7342b848n9vb2h7 and here http://www.mediafire.com/?jf026o9uwsv69a8 .... 04 and 06 photos..
Thanks a lot ..
Liao
P.S. I will be off town this week .. i will back here to the forum in the next week .

DennisS
05-29-2012, 03:14 PM
Liao,

Both sets stitched just fine on the very first try with no extra control points needed.

I opened PTGui, dragged over the image set, went to the crop tab and set the crop circle, Project Assistant tab, align images, deleted worst control point (only 1) and got a maximum error of 1.4 with the 4 pictures and a maximum error of 2.2 with the 6 pictures.

I would say your issues are not hardware. You are doing something when you stitch. There is a very slight parallax issue, but not enough to cause the stitching errors you are seeing. Try following the few steps I did.

Dennis

Hugh
05-30-2012, 10:43 AM
Hello Liao,

Like Dennis, I see no stitching errors.

I am using PTGui Pro 9.1.3 and I used the following process with both the 4 and 6 image sets, then with all 10 images together:
1. Load images...
2. Align images...
Click the "Optimizer" tab and use "Heavy + lens shift"
3. Create panorama...
Check that the Width is 2 x the Height and enter a file name at "Output file:" and then click the "Output Panorama" button
I used no other steps and did not even look at the Control Points or Crop because the "Optimizer" results suggested that these were fine.

The results running the "Optimizer"were all "very good" and as follows:
AverageControl Point Distance 4 images (0.86) 6 images (1.04) 10 images (1.06)
MinimumControl Point Distance 4 images (0.06) 6 images (0.02) 10 images (0.07)
MaximumControl Point Distance 4 images (1.88) 6 images (2.51) 10 images (2.89)

It appears to me that your setup is "spot on" looking at the nadir.

Personally I would go for the 6 images round.
I did go back and look at the Control Points after creating the Equiractangulars and it is clear that the coverage is much better with the 6 images than the 4, but both cases have worked fine here.

I can email the Equirectangular and PTS files to you if you wish, or send them by WeTransfer if you prefer.

I hope this helps, but, like Dennis, I cannot see that there is anything wrong with your set up.

All the best, Hugh.

liaock
06-16-2012, 05:10 PM
Hi Hugh ,
Thanks for replying ... I did step by step what you described and i still getting stiching error ... i will write you a PM with my email addr ... please , can you send me the files ?
Thanks a lot
Liao



Hello Liao,

Like Dennis, I see no stitching errors.

I am using PTGui Pro 9.1.3 and I used the following process with both the 4 and 6 image sets, then with all 10 images together:
1. Load images...
2. Align images...
Click the "Optimizer" tab and use "Heavy + lens shift"
3. Create panorama...
Check that the Width is 2 x the Height and enter a file name at "Output file:" and then click the "Output Panorama" button
I used no other steps and did not even look at the Control Points or Crop because the "Optimizer" results suggested that these were fine.

The results running the "Optimizer"were all "very good" and as follows:
AverageControl Point Distance 4 images (0.86) 6 images (1.04) 10 images (1.06)
MinimumControl Point Distance 4 images (0.06) 6 images (0.02) 10 images (0.07)
MaximumControl Point Distance 4 images (1.88) 6 images (2.51) 10 images (2.89)

It appears to me that your setup is "spot on" looking at the nadir.

Personally I would go for the 6 images round.
I did go back and look at the Control Points after creating the Equiractangulars and it is clear that the coverage is much better with the 6 images than the 4, but both cases have worked fine here.

I can email the Equirectangular and PTS files to you if you wish, or send them by WeTransfer if you prefer.

I hope this helps, but, like Dennis, I cannot see that there is anything wrong with your set up.

All the best, Hugh.

liaock
06-16-2012, 05:12 PM
Hi Dennis ,
thanks for replying ... i did not get what you did ... please , can you describe step by step ?
Thanks
Liao



Liao,

Both sets stitched just fine on the very first try with no extra control points needed.

I opened PTGui, dragged over the image set, went to the crop tab and set the crop circle, Project Assistant tab, align images, deleted worst control point (only 1) and got a maximum error of 1.4 with the 4 pictures and a maximum error of 2.2 with the 6 pictures.

I would say your issues are not hardware. You are doing something when you stitch. There is a very slight parallax issue, but not enough to cause the stitching errors you are seeing. Try following the few steps I did.

Dennis

DennisS
06-17-2012, 07:54 PM
Open PTGui,
Drag and drop the image set,
Crop tab,
Set the crop circle,
Project Assistant tab,
Align images,
Select "Control Points" on the main menu,
Delete worst control points.

Alex Duffield
07-01-2012, 02:00 PM
To respond to the original question about the NPP for the R1 with a Sigma 8, it would seem that the recommended setting of 1.2 is just incorrect. I just recently got the R1/Sigma8 and in my tests it seems like closer to 3 gets the results we are looking for. Here is a quick test image I did, shooting 3 shots for each setting (1.2 and 3). I used the my Pole Series A on a tripod in my office about 3 feet in front of camera, aligned this with a straight light out side the window at about 5o feet and then the garage on the house across the street. Center shot is straight on, then left and right are from peripheral view from 45deg each way. Clearly we can see that 1.2 is not what we are looking for. At 3 its still not perfect but a hell of a lot closer.

http://www.incontrolsolutions.com/Forum-Images/R1-Sigma8mm-Npp-Test.jpg

Alex Duffield
07-01-2012, 02:27 PM
A few more tests and 2.9 is the sweet spot for me. (at 0 deg)

Alex Duffield
07-02-2012, 12:06 PM
Nick or Bill, can you comment on why my results differ so much from the recommended setting of 1.2 that is here. http://www.nodalninja.com/qr/r1-r10/nodal-ninja-ultimate-r1/17/ (Sigma 8mm f/3.5 DG for Nikon - 4 shots around)

liaock
07-02-2012, 06:03 PM
Hi Hugh ..

Sorry for the latte reply ... i was off the town ... i came back these days ...
Thanks for your email and the attached files ...

I opened your file ( 4 images ) ... and i done step by step what you did .. but i still getting stitching errors ...

I sent you a email with attached my pts file and the print screen of your file settings and my file settings .

Thanks
Liao

liaock
07-02-2012, 06:05 PM
Open PTGui,
Drag and drop the image set,
Crop tab,
Set the crop circle,
Project Assistant tab,
Align images,
Select "Control Points" on the main menu,
Delete worst control points.


Hi Dennis ,
Thanks ... i will try it again ...
Liao

liaock
07-02-2012, 06:09 PM
A few more tests and 2.9 is the sweet spot for me. (at 0 deg)

Hi Alex ...
I got my closer to 3.4 .... i do not know why in the recommended setting are 1.2 ....
Liao

Hugh
07-03-2012, 11:31 AM
Thanks for the files Liao

I'll be back to once I have had a good look, Hugh.

Hugh
07-04-2012, 11:11 AM
Hi Hugh ..

I sent you a email with attached my pts file and the print screen of your file settings and my file settings.

Thanks
Liao

Hello Liao,

Thanks for the files, which I have looked at, and I think that the problem is to do with Control Points because of the message in the "Control Point Assistant".

If you open PTGui with "Liao.pts" there are some 182 Control Points, which are mainly around the centre of the images with very few in the Zenith and Nadir parts, which I think is "pulling" the images too much.
If you open PTGui with "Hugh.pts" you will see only 52 Control points much more evenly distributed.

To investigate this I opened PTGui with "Liao.pts" then used "Delete All Control Points"
then "Generate Control Points"
then I ran the "Optimizer"
then used "3. Create panorama..."
which gave me a much better Equirectangular and SWF, but still with a small displacement at the Zenith.

So, the question is "How are you generating all the Control Points?"

The physical set up of your kit is, in my opinion, good, so PTGui can use "2. Align images..." to generate the required Control Points without any manual intervention.

My installation is set up as:
Generate at most 15 control points per image pair
Generate at most 2500 control points per project
and this works fine with you images.

I noticed that in the "Liao.pts" file the "Optimizer" is set at "Heavy".
I would recommend using it at "Heavy + lens shift".
You can see that in the "Lens Settings" the values in "Image shift:" are 0 with "Liao.pts" and in "Hugh.pts" they have values, which make the a. b and c values much smaller.
When I set up the R1 I found it difficult to get a perfect orientation for the camera and find that using "Heavy + lens shift". compensates for any slight rotation off the the perfect and any minor errors in leveling when taking the images.

Personally I would recommend 6 shots round with your kit as this gives more overlap between images giving a better spread of Control Points, but four does work OK as in this example.

If you are still getting problems it may be worth you asking for help on the PTGui forum:
http://groups.google.com/group/ptgui
If you do post on this forum please attach your PTS file as it is probably what Joost will ask for.


A few more tests and 2.9 is the sweet spot for me. (at 0 deg)


Nick or Bill, can you comment on why my results differ so much from the recommended setting of 1.2 that is here. http://www.nodalninja.com/qr/r1-r10/nodal-ninja-ultimate-r1/17/ (Sigma 8mm f/3.5 DG for Nikon - 4 shots around)


Hi Alex ...
I got my closer to 3.4 .... i do not know why in the recommended setting are 1.2 ....
Liao

Hello Alex and Liao

I don't wish to dissemble my R1 to investigate as my set up is working just fine as it is, but suggest that is is possible that the differences are down to where exactly you have the lens in the clamp when you tighten it.
Maybe Bill or Nick can clarify this, but the important thing is to find the NNP (Nodal Ninja Point) about which the unit rotates to minimise parallax and although there is a theoretical correct setting the general opinion that appears to be expressed on this forum is to find your own setting that suits you rather than rely on numbers as there are a few factors which can influence the final position.
One example, is where exactly is the Entrance Pupil (No Parallax Point) for your lens.
Some lenses do actually have a single point but fisheye lenses do not and choosing the right setting is what works best for your set up.
In theory you should use the point where the rays at the "join" between your images meet the principal ray and this will depend on the number of images round.
e.g. With a Sigma 8mm lens and 4 shots around the "join" ray is 45 either side of the principle ray which meets it approximately 4mm in front of the gold ring, but for 6 shots round the "join" ray is 30 either side of the principle ray which meets it approximately the gold ring.
http://www.hugha.co.uk/NodalPoint/Index.htm

Hugh.