PDA

View Full Version : considering R1 for pole pano's



jkovack
02-14-2012, 07:49 PM
already have a nn4 that i love, but considering a R1 just for the weight savings for pole pano's. since i don't need a rotator, i assume i order the R1 tilt head only, ring clamp (canon 15mm fisheye) and the pole adapter???

what degree tilts can the R1 be set too?

nick fan
02-14-2012, 08:05 PM
already have a nn4 that i love, but considering a R1 just for the weight savings for pole pano's. since i don't need a rotator, i assume i order the R1 tilt head only, ring clamp (canon 15mm fisheye) and the pole adapter???

what degree tilts can the R1 be set too?

you'd better get a Quick Mount Mini instead of pole adapter. It is safer and quicker. It works for NN4 with RD8/16, RD3L.
what camera do you use?


nick

jkovack
02-14-2012, 08:50 PM
5D mkII and 15mm fisheye


also, looks like the pole adapter might be my only option. the pole system I'm using has a fixed 3/8" stud to mount on. i can't screw into the top

nick fan
02-14-2012, 11:27 PM
with a camera on a pole, the nadir hole in terms of area on the ground is much amplified. You want to reduce it to make patching easier. So use -15 or -10 deg tilt.

Nick

hindenhaag
02-14-2012, 11:28 PM
Hi,

you can use the Quick Mount Mini System on top of any pole with 3/8" screw on top but without the Anti Twist Screws. On top of your rotator you can use the AntiTwistScrews of QMM.

499500498501

Feel free to ask.

Sucess,
Heinz

nick fan
02-15-2012, 01:46 AM
Hi,

you can use the Quick Mount Mini System on top of any pole with 3/8" screw on top but without the Anti Twist Screws. On top of your rotator you can use the AntiTwistScrews of QMM.

499500498501

Feel free to ask.

Sucess,
Heinz

Hi Heinz,

I take safety very seriously. I don't recommend using the Quick Mount mini without the anti-twisting pin.
I will make an adapter to allow it to be used for Non-fanotec poles.


Nick

jkovack
02-15-2012, 08:58 AM
I'm going to test it out with the NN4 first i think. i just finished modifying one of the manfrotto 269 giant stands, and it has some cables attached for stability. I'm just not sure about the NN4 yet though, how stable it will be. between the camera, lens, promote control and pocket wizard its about 5 lbs that will be up there.

DemonDuck
02-15-2012, 09:10 AM
Here's another wacky idea. Using a pole with a kit that is not a full circle fisheye means you at least have to do a nadir shot. Some kits would force you into two rows + nadir.

A simple way to do this without lowering the pole and camera so that you can adjust the tilt would be a ratchet/release mechanism that could be gravity powered and activated by a simple cable pull. You set the intervals with stops you screw into the ratchet wheel at the degrees you want and then when you pull the ratchet release cable, the camera settles by gravity to the next stop. A simple friction clutch would keep the camera from too rapid a clunk.

This is just a rough idea -- the design is still floating around in my head.

nick fan
02-15-2012, 09:40 AM
Here's another wacky idea. Using a pole with a kit that is not a full circle fisheye means you at least have to do a nadir shot. Some kits would force you into two rows + nadir.

A simple way to do this without lowering the pole and camera so that you can adjust the tilt would be a ratchet/release mechanism that could be gravity powered and activated by a simple cable pull. You set the intervals with stops you screw into the ratchet wheel at the degrees you want and then when you pull the ratchet release cable, the camera settles by gravity to the next stop. A simple friction clutch would keep the camera from too rapid a clunk.

This is just a rough idea -- the design is still floating around in my head.

I discussed this idea with Wim. We are not sure that is up to customer expectation for using a long cable to control the tilt.

Nick

hindenhaag
02-15-2012, 10:43 AM
I'm going to test it out with the NN4 first i think. i just finished modifying one of the manfrotto 269 giant stands, and it has some cables attached for stability. I'm just not sure about the NN4 yet though, how stable it will be. between the camera, lens, promote control and pocket wizard its about 5 lbs that will be up there.

Nothing to do with stability of NN4. NN4 will be stable on it's own. It has to deal with stability of the pole itself. Dealing with the weight which is set on top, center weight, torque which is set to top of pole because the weight of camera lens combination in most cases is not centered to bottom of pole, etc.

For me, the only option would be to use a R1/R10 on top of your pole. Try to close the Zenith with camera lens combination, and shoot the Nadir Handheld. Or come down with the pole, adjust the panohead, and go up again.

I believe there won't be a "eier legende wolf's milchsau". This means, there is no solution to solve all problems in one go. Nick has already discussed the question with Wim. Wim is very experienced with use of poles, footplate is available because of all his inputs to the System. So Jakovac has to decide what he likes to do with his equipment. To avoid coming up and down is a decision between closing the zenith by tilting up by 5 for example or to use -10/15 tilt to get a narrow Nadir and do the Nadir handheld.

I believe if Nick would have found a solution to all these problems in one go, he would already be a rich man. I believe this. He isn't a millionaire I believe, why? Sorry Nick. This is not the way NN and Fanotec are running their business to in first case trying to help us, their customers.Besides the help and service of NN / Fanotec they are presenting very good products.

Just imaging the costs to ask specialists to solve everybodies problem with individual hardware will show you I'll should better pay $150 dollars for you and your "One and Only" for a dinner at night than to "throw away hundreds of dollars" to serve every single question in case I would be the producer. For personal wishes adaptation to equipment. Everybody of us would have to pay higher prices in case this would be the companies philosophy.

I personally feel happy with the philosophy of NN and Fanotec. And the designs upgrading following downgrading Philosophy.

I like the discussions on the forum. Cause I know Nick and Bill are up to date with our questions.

So long,
Heiinz

DemonDuck
02-15-2012, 11:01 AM
I discussed this idea with Wim. We are not sure that is up to customer expectation for using a long cable to control the tilt.

Nick

One tenet of business is that you create customer expectations. That's why cars are loaded with extras you don't need. That's why fast food places can sell crap food. That's why people buy new clothes every year to stay in style. That's why there's a new cell phone every day. That's why people pay hundreds of dollars a month to watch TV.

Business is what you make it.

The difference with my idea and those above is that some people would find it useful if done right.

hindenhaag
02-15-2012, 11:30 AM
DD,

I am looking forward to the day you produce all your ideas on your own with your own company at your own risk and I will be very happy to use your very individual design products for my own needs of equipment. I believe there is a big difference in " there is a dream" and taking the risk to fulfill this by running an own business like Nick does. Just jump into the pool of sharks, take the risk and you might be able to solve all your dreams on your own and on your own moneys risk. That's the basic we have to talk about asking questions. Besides all this we have to think about our distributors and resellers. They have to buy equipment to have it in stock. Money spent for a "dream of a profit" for a lot of daily work and service.

At least let us take a "global view about customers question". I am running my own business and I have to think about all this every day. I can not fulfill everybody's dreams, but I try my best. Like Bill and Nick, and the distributors like Vincen in FR, Andrew in UK, and Mauro in IT in EU.

To do it right asks a lot of knowledge, experience, trying to find out "the momental streams", and the trust to risk own money because you are convinced of your "own dream, product and knowledge about it" with which you are trying to earn you living for yourself and your family you are responsible for. That's the background behind all our customers dreams.

We as normal users should be happy to have find a lot o guys who dear to take the risk to fulfill our dreams! And I am happy with resellers, NN and Fanotec.

Thx to all of you,
Heinz

DemonDuck
02-15-2012, 12:19 PM
DD,

I am looking forward to the day you produce all your ideas on your own with your own company at your own risk and I will be very happy to use your very individual design products for my own needs of equipment. I believe there is a big difference in " there is a dream" and taking the risk to fulfill this by running an own business like Nick does. Just jump into the pool of sharks, take the risk and you might be able to solve all your dreams on your own and on your own moneys risk. That's the basic we have to talk about asking questions. Besides all this we have to think about our distributors and resellers. They have to buy equipment to have it in stock. Money spent for a "dream of a profit" for a lot of daily work and service.

At least let us take a "global view about customers question". I am running my own business and I have to think about all this every day. I can not fulfill everybody's dreams, but I try my best. Like Bill and Nick, and the distributors like Vincen in FR, Andrew in UK, and Mauro in IT in EU.

To do it right asks a lot of knowledge, experience, trying to find out "the momental streams", and the trust to risk own money because you are convinced of your "own dream, product and knowledge about it" with which you are trying to earn you living for yourself and your family you are responsible for. That's the background behind all our customers dreams.

We as normal users should be happy to have find a lot o guys who dear to take the risk to fulfill our dreams! And I am happy with resellers, NN and Fanotec.

Thx to all of you,
Heinz


Nick is very fortunate to have you as spokesperson....

nick fan
02-15-2012, 11:22 PM
One tenet of business is that you create customer expectations. That's why cars are loaded with extras you don't need. That's why fast food places can sell crap food. That's why people buy new clothes every year to stay in style. That's why there's a new cell phone every day. That's why people pay hundreds of dollars a month to watch TV.

Business is what you make it.

The difference with my idea and those above is that some people would find it useful if done right.

Sorry, I might not have been clear. We think using a long cable to control the tilt is below customer expectation. It is quite cumbersome to use. People expect motorized head. But that is expensive.
I have some idea to offer an in-between solution though.

Nick

DemonDuck
02-16-2012, 03:03 AM
I understand. You peak my interest on your solution. I thought I thought of everything :-)

jkovack
02-16-2012, 09:46 AM
Nothing to do with stability of NN4. NN4 will be stable on it's own. It has to deal with stability of the pole itself. Dealing with the weight which is set on top, center weight, torque which is set to top of pole because the weight of camera lens combination in most cases is not centered to bottom of pole, etc.


well thats what i meant, not the actual stability of the nn4, just the weight up there. cutting back on weight/ center of gravity by using a R1.

I've actually come up with a pretty good solution, to support the weight of the nn4 up there.

as soon as it stops raining ill test it out, but I'm 99% sure my solution will work.

DennisS
02-16-2012, 03:26 PM
We think using a long cable to control the tilt is below customer expectation

It all depends on how it is implimented. On a tandem bicycle (bike built for two) long cable runs are used for controlling the brakes and shifters. The brakes and derailleurs have stiff return springs. If the upper arm on the pano head had a return spring, you could use the same cable/housing setup a bicycle uses.

DemonDuck
02-16-2012, 04:52 PM
Now that's a good idea. Something like an index shifter. You could click through several different angles -- and then go back.

Very Good!!!:clap:

nick fan
02-16-2012, 10:54 PM
It all depends on how it is implimented. On a tandem bicycle (bike built for two) long cable runs are used for controlling the brakes and shifters. The brakes and derailleurs have stiff return springs. If the upper arm on the pano head had a return spring, you could use the same cable/housing setup a bicycle uses.

That still requires a 6m cable for 6m pole.

Nick

DemonDuck
02-17-2012, 04:10 AM
Bike cables are reliable and simple. No batteries. Light weight. Could be on the inside of the pole.

Waiting with interest for your surprise.

jkovack
02-17-2012, 06:51 AM
Bike cables are reliable and simple. No batteries. Light weight. Could be on the inside of the pole.

Waiting with interest for your surprise.

couldn't be on the inside of the pole, unless the pole was a fixed length. the nicks pole design (and any pole design) has to be extendable. and if you just make a 6m cable, what if you do a pano at 3m? then you got 3m of cable to get in the way.

what i have done with my manfrotto stand, it have support cables, but i have 4 different lengths so i can do 4 different heights with no problem. with your idea, it would have to be similar, have a few different cable options supplied, but a quick change connection of the cable would have to be used.

DemonDuck
02-17-2012, 10:47 AM
The way bike cables are used is to put them in a cable guide. The guides are fixed to hard points and the cable guide is free to flex and move all it wants and the cable stays the same length. If the cable guide is coiled, it might (but maybe not) be able to be coiled inside the pole. Maybe not for really long poles.

But Nick already said he has another way so this is just all talk.

Mark Johnston
03-23-2012, 07:22 AM
a 'handgrenade' pin that you pull after the first set is done?

(A cotter pin would be pretty damn small and cheap- available anywhere in case lost, string is provided by the end user)

the trick would be keeping the tension on pulling the pin right so as to not blow the position-

a solution might be two half grooves on both sides of facing plates allowing the axle of vertical motion
when you align the grooves (camera tilted up) the hole idents would be aligned and would be open facing as near straight down the shaft as practical- keeps the line of force even with the pole.

the tension for the rate of drop could be adjusted by the tightness of the axle.

run it up, shoot the top row, pull the pin and the rig drops, shoot second row.