Longer Vertical Rail for M1 [Archive] - Nodal Ninja Forum

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nick fan
01-09-2012, 01:50 AM
Dear NN Ult M1 users,

I need your input here. Currently, the vertical rail of M1 is not long enough for zenith shot. It requires the nadir adapter to increase the head room. This is my original design intention. The nadir adapter however, is quite heavy at 160g and comes at a price ($50 in a bundle, $89.95 separately). If I make the vertical rail longer, it should weigh just 30-50g more and cost $10-$20 more than the current vertical rail for M1S and M1L.
I wonder if you will prefer a longer vertical rail instead.

Thx a lot.

Nick

Vincèn
01-09-2012, 03:28 AM
Voted :) for longer rail ;)

Vincèn

hindenhaag
01-09-2012, 04:06 AM
Hi Nick,

I'd prefer a longer vertical rail because of weight.

Heinz

torger
01-09-2012, 04:50 AM
Since I use it for mosaics and not spherical panoramas, I prefer the shorter rail to keep down weight. But I would be no disaster if it was a little longer of course...

Terrywoodenpic
01-09-2012, 05:23 AM
It would seem reasonable to supply both alternatives. As the longer rail would be better for 360x180 and the shorter for mosaics.
The fewer separate components and Joints used and the more compact the total device, the sturdier the function.

hindenhaag
01-09-2012, 06:00 AM
Hi Terry,

I think it is not a big problem to supply both alternatives. Plus Nick already has the shorter version in production. I just think of our distributors and resellers. What do they think of it? Just think about the great amount of lens rings they should have in stock.

I agree with your comment about function. Might be the normal standard delivery is the new longer vertical rail, plus the vertical rail we have now with the hint " for Mosaics in first instance". Then the resellers only needs to have 1 "short vertical Rail" in stock, in case...

I think most users will order the longer vertical rail.

I tested a lot of Nikon bodies and lenses on M1-L. Most of them worked with the vertical rail we use right now Plus! Nadir Adapter. There are only some camera lens combinations where you can not shoot the Zenith at +90º Zenith because the camera bumbs on the side of the lower rail. If you want to avoid this, Nick has two chances: make a higher Nadir Adapter or a new longer rail. I would prefer the new longer rail.

So it might be a good add on to ask: Do you have problems to shoot +90º Zenith with the normal M1-L vertical rail + Nadir Adapter? Which combination do you use?

Heinz

John Houghton
01-09-2012, 06:06 AM
Currently, the vertical rail of M1 is not long enough for zenith shot.
This needs some sort of qualification, i.e for which lens on which camera, and just how long is long enough? It's certainly long enough for all the zenith shots I have wanted to take. For example, you can get up to around 100mm using a 70-100mm Canon lens on a 5DII. Assuming you were shooting a 360x180, this would produce a maximum equirectangular image size in excess of 4GP. Do many people really want to take such panoramas? I am sure many people will have good reason to prefer a longer rail while others would be happy with the present length. It might be a good idea to ask those who want a longer rail how much longer they need it to be. While I am generally content with the current length, I think a longer rail should be available as an alternative. If it has to be one or the other, then I suppose I would opt for the longer rail.
John

John

DennisS
01-09-2012, 07:42 AM
Since I only use a Nikon 10.5 lens, I could use a SHORTER vertical rail. A longer rail would only add weight and put the camera even further up in the air.

If you shoot with the hand grip part of the camera up, is it not easier to rotate for the Zenith? If you shoot with the grip part down, I can see where there would be clearance issues.

You could make the vertical rail modular just like the other two rails.

Bill Bailey
01-09-2012, 08:23 AM
IMO just making a block similar to Nadir Adapter that secures itself (arca?) to base of vertical rail or to lower rail. A few customers now merely purchase the Nadir Adapter for the sole purpose raising height of vertical rail.

Bill

John Houghton
01-09-2012, 09:15 AM
It would also help if the Arca clamp knob at the end of the upper rail didn't stick out quite so far. For my camera, 15mm shaved off the knob would allow the camera to be shifted back 15mm, which would be a useful improvement. (The nadir adapter gives an extra 35mm). A smaller knob would probably only be practical if it was operated with a hex key, or maybe a fold down wire finger grip as used on Manfrotto adapters, or a coin slot would be ok.

John

hindenhaag
01-09-2012, 09:23 AM
Bill et al,

for me the basic question behind this is the question "Do you order the Nadir Adapter to take the Nadir Shots in an easy workflow?" Or do you order it "Because of Raise in Vertical Height in the first point of view"?.

Second Question: Using the Nadir Adapter, with which camera lens combination do you need a longer vertical rail to be able to shot a +90º Zenith shot without the camera being stopped by lower rail? With the consequence to shoot 2x with around +60º Pitch?

Two Basic Questions: Whom of those using the current vertical rail have problems to shoot a +90º Zenith shot without using the Nadir Adapter which will add space in vertical height. Please add info about the equipment used. They will need a longer vertical rail because they do not like to use the Nadir Adapter to increase vertical Height. They would prefer to spend up to 20$ instead of buying a Nadir Adapter with Higher Price.

Those who have decided to use the advantage of the Nadir Adapter: How many of you will ask for a longer vertical rail to be able to shoot the Zenith at +90º because the camera is bumping against the side of lower rail? Plus:will longer vertical rail solve this problem? What combination has been used?

Till now I succeed in most situations besides some very special Nikkor Lenses.

The choice, "I prefer to take the Nadir Adapter" for me does not answer the basics of the question. Basically I prefer to use a Nadir Adapter on all sorts of NN Panoheads. NN3 - M1-L. But there are a few cases left with Nikon Equipment I would love a longer vertical rail to be able to shoot +90º Zenith. I would prefer the choice of a longer vertical rail. The only alternative for me would be an "Add on Vertical Height Plate" below the present Nadir Adapter. I personally would prefer a longer vertical rail I would buy separately as add on in case I need it. But this is me personally and my personal equipment

A basic question around this would be: How many percent of your customers prefer a Nadir Adapter to shoot Nadir1 and Nadir2 besides other preferences in vertical height options to take the Nadir Shots?

Do we like Nick to produce a higher Nadir Adapter or do we prefer him to produce a longer vertical rail to solve the Zenith Shot problems in some few cases?

Regards,
Heinz

DemonDuck
01-09-2012, 10:00 AM
A long neck ball head can take the place of both a leveler and a nadir adapter.

hindenhaag
01-09-2012, 10:11 AM
Demon,

This thread's question tries to solve the question about preferences of users about these two questions: what should Nick produce: higher Nadir Adapter in place of a higher Vertical Rail. We do not talk about the use of a ball head.

All the best to you for 2012.

Cheers,
Heinz

nick fan
01-09-2012, 07:14 PM
Bill et al,

for me the basic question behind this is the question "Do you order the Nadir Adapter to take the Nadir Shots in an easy workflow?" Or do you order it "Because of Raise in Vertical Height in the first point of view"?.

Second Question: Using the Nadir Adapter, with which camera lens combination do you need a longer vertical rail to be able to shot a +90º Zenith shot without the camera being stopped by lower rail? With the consequence to shoot 2x with around +60º Pitch?

Two Basic Questions: Whom of those using the current vertical rail have problems to shoot a +90º Zenith shot without using the Nadir Adapter which will add space in vertical height. Please add info about the equipment used. They will need a longer vertical rail because they do not like to use the Nadir Adapter to increase vertical Height. They would prefer to spend up to 20$ instead of buying a Nadir Adapter with Higher Price.

Those who have decided to use the advantage of the Nadir Adapter: How many of you will ask for a longer vertical rail to be able to shoot the Zenith at +90º because the camera is bumping against the side of lower rail? Plus:will longer vertical rail solve this problem? What combination has been used?

Till now I succeed in most situations besides some very special Nikkor Lenses.

The choice, "I prefer to take the Nadir Adapter" for me does not answer the basics of the question. Basically I prefer to use a Nadir Adapter on all sorts of NN Panoheads. NN3 - M1-L. But there are a few cases left with Nikon Equipment I would love a longer vertical rail to be able to shoot +90º Zenith. I would prefer the choice of a longer vertical rail. The only alternative for me would be an "Add on Vertical Height Plate" below the present Nadir Adapter. I personally would prefer a longer vertical rail I would buy separately as add on in case I need it. But this is me personally and my personal equipment

A basic question around this would be: How many percent of your customers prefer a Nadir Adapter to shoot Nadir1 and Nadir2 besides other preferences in vertical height options to take the Nadir Shots?

Do we like Nick to produce a higher Nadir Adapter or do we prefer him to produce a longer vertical rail to solve the Zenith Shot problems in some few cases?

Regards,
Heinz

Yes, that is my question. With the nadir adapter, the vertical rail is tall enough. For some rare cases, I can make taller nadir adapter. But if the nadir adapter serves no other purpose than raising the head room for the user. Then we should look for more economical solution. Either by means of a light weight extender or a longer vertical rail.

Nick

smsheridan
01-22-2012, 10:19 AM
I really need the longer rail. I just bought the M1L and the nadir adapter is not in stock. I have no way of getting my zenith shot with this unit. Not good. This is critical for the technical type of sphericals I shoot inside of various aircraft compartments. I have a shoot next week and it seems I'm screwed. Access to the aircraft is very time-limited and this is not going to make me look good in front of my clients. Also, it seems the upper rail should be a 210mm unit to accommodate more lenses. These are two very limiting factors in my opinion. I wish I had known about them before I purchased.

Steve

hindenhaag
01-22-2012, 12:19 PM
Steve,

Would be nice to get to know your camera lens combination. May be you can swap MFR170 from Upper Rail Use to Lower Rail Use and use MFR210 as upper rail. Depends on your lower rail setting.

Just checked the NN e-store for you and there is no limitation of delivery of M1-Nadir Adaptor. They are in stock. Because you have an emergency case, just contact Bill on monday and I am sure he will help you.

Anyway, would be good to get the camera lens combination you use to check it with Nadir Adapter on vertical rail. I know it is late in EU, but I hope you check the forum this evening.

Cheers,
Heinz

smsheridan
01-22-2012, 08:03 PM
Heinz,
Thank you for your quick response. The camera I'll be using is a D700 with a 14mm f/2.8 Nikkor. I'd also like to be able to use my 16-35mm nikkor, a 14-24mm nikkor, 24-70mm nikkor. Another camera body I'd like to be able to use with those lenses is a D3s. I know the NN e-store shows the nadir adapter in stock, but I ordered my M1L with the Nadir adapter and when I received my M1L last Thursday I was told it wasn't in stock and would ship separately. No date was mentioned. A long as I've got your attention, do you have any recommended settings for the D700-14mm combination? I sincerely appreciate any help you can give me and will reciprocate if possible.
Thanks,
Steve

FYI. I had the privilege of visiting your country on assignment in 2010. I only got to Amsterdam, Eindhoven and Hoopendorf. I was very impressed and would love to go again.
Thanks again.

hindenhaag
01-22-2012, 09:54 PM
Steve,

LRS = Lower Rail Setting for D700 is 156.5 with the U1 universal camera plate. Now you can use the new U3, which will center automatically in the vertical. I did not check if there is difference from U1 to U3 in settings.

I don't have a 14mm and 16-35.

Have a look to these threads: http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/showthread.php?4550-Settings-for-M1-sorry-only-for-Nikonians

http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/showthread.php?4690-Some-Basics-about-new-Fanotec-Camera-Plates-CP-U2-U3-U4

http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/showthread.php?4635-Different-Setup-of-Upper-Rotator-and-Vertical-Rail-for-M1-L-with-and-without-Nadir-Adapter

http://www.easypano.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=4162 for LRS Test

http://www.johnhpanos.com/epcalib.htm for URS Test


D700 settings have been tested with U1 universal camera plate centered to tripod mount socket on the bottom of camera body in direction of lens axis.

I always use my Nadir Adapter. Give Bill a call to ask him about your problem. In case you can not swing into Zenith Position, you have to do 2x +60︒ Pitch 180︒ visa versa.

When do you have to be ready for your job? May be I can test D700 with new camera plate U3 about settings and changes and have a look to them without Nadir Adapter. In most of the time I use the big boys 14-24, 24-70, 70-200 with D3, I use D700 as second body to take extra shots.

Feel free to ask.
Heinz

smsheridan
01-23-2012, 04:28 PM
Heinz,
I just thought I'd let you know we ran our tests today with the D700 & 14mm F/2.8 using the U3 mount and no nadir adapter (they're still not in stock) on the M1L. We came up with a LRS of 127.5 and URS of 111. This allows us to use the standard vertical rail and still rotate 90 deg. up for the zenith shot. What a relief! Thank you very much for all of your help. I'll let you know how the actual shoot goes.
Thanks again,
Steve

Kidraver
07-01-2012, 06:48 PM
maybe you could make the longer version with two places to attach the bit with the knob on, sorry for the lack of tech.