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View Full Version : Mods made to the M1L to allow for a lens ring mout clamp + Nadir adapter.



DennisS
12-27-2011, 01:28 PM
I created a web page pulling together all the mods I have made in order to use a lens ring clamp with the M1L. Enjoy.

http://www.dlsphoto.net/M1PanoHeadMods/

DemonDuck
12-27-2011, 03:55 PM
It never occurred to me that one could attach a lens ring directly to the upper rotator. That's an interesting idea. I wonder if one could make that work on an NN3? Maybe with the R1/R10 pole adapter as a spacer?

When I visualized using a lens ring on an NN3, I envisioned putting it on the upper arm. That's not as good as what you did Dennis.

Nick, maybe you could piece together a prototype since you have all the parts handy. http://www.panoguide.com/pics/smileys/confused.gif

Think of it as a way to sell lens rings to people like me who want to keep the flexibility of an adjustable upper arm.

DennisS
12-27-2011, 05:09 PM
I did this back in 2009:

http://www.dlsphoto.net/Panoguide/NN3R1Front.jpg

I have been suggesting a lens ring mount pano head (not the R1) for a very long time now. When I saw the first M1 prototype, I knew that my prayers had been answered. As you can see from the previous post, it does not take very much to get the M1 to work well with a lens ring clamp.

If you already have a NN3, you will need to purchase an R1 kit along with the pole adapter. This will give you the Arca clamp, lens ring clamp and rotator. You then need to source a 1/4-20 threaded knob. You bolt the adapter to the clamp. I put one of the extra NN3 detent rings between the pole adapter and the vertical NN3 arm. I also put a very think aluminum washer between the vertical arm and the knob. Only then do you cut the threaded knob to length. It has been several years since I put these parts together, so I may be missing a part.

DemonDuck
12-27-2011, 05:21 PM
That is a very sensible way to mount a camera and disposes of all sorts of alignment problems and makes a much simpler kit.

Nick, why not make an adapter kit for this with all the requisite parts? Actually two kits. One kit with the QR system and one kit without.

nick fan
12-28-2011, 03:11 AM
That is a very sensible way to mount a camera and disposes of all sorts of alignment problems and makes a much simpler kit.

Nick, why not make an adapter kit for this with all the requisite parts? Actually two kits. One kit with the QR system and one kit without.

It will be easier for NN4. Just buy a QRC-40B to replace the upper rail. For NN3/ NN3II sold, there may be a problem for the upper rotator. We have more than 1 sizes in the hole of vertical rail that acts as the rotation axis.
Per your request, we are making some lens ring plate for use on the upper rail of NN3/4/5. That may be enough for now.
We need to make better documentation (something I am weak at) before we introduce even more variation.

Nick

nick fan
12-28-2011, 03:18 AM
It never occurred to me that one could attach a lens ring directly to the upper rotator. That's an interesting idea. I wonder if one could make that work on an NN3? Maybe with the R1/R10 pole adapter as a spacer?

When I visualized using a lens ring on an NN3, I envisioned putting it on the upper arm. That's not as good as what you did Dennis.

Nick, maybe you could piece together a prototype since you have all the parts handy. http://www.panoguide.com/pics/smileys/confused.gif

Think of it as a way to sell lens rings to people like me who want to keep the flexibility of an adjustable upper arm.

That is demonstrated in the very first announcement.
http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/showthread.php?4311-Ulitmate-M-Series-Pano-Heads
http://nodalninja.com/images/m/M1s-custom-1-650.jpg
It is a design intent in day 1. That is why the upper rail is not fixed to the rotator.
Dennis just adds a spacer to increase the clearance between the vertical rail and lens axis for better nadir patching.

Nick

DemonDuck
12-28-2011, 04:18 AM
It will be easier for NN4. Just buy a QRC-40B to replace the upper rail. For NN3/ NN3II sold, there may be a problem for the upper rotator. We have more than 1 sizes in the hole of vertical rail that acts as the rotation axis.
Per your request, we are making some lens ring plate for use on the upper rail of NN3/4/5. That may be enough for now.
We need to make better documentation (something I am weak at) before we introduce even more variation.

Nick

Well, if I had all that extra money, that's exactly what I would do. But:

NN4 -- $349.95
QRC-40B -- $50.00
Lens Ring $109.00
==============
$499.95

I have a perfectly good NN3 that is perfect size for the cameras I use. And for me, just buying a lens ring is a big financial decision that I would have to think about a real long time.

And may I make the suggestion that a simple knob and bolt are more than adequate to fix a lens ring to the upper rail of an NN3 so if you can make an adapter that screws onto the lens ring that has a bolt hole -- that would be simpler and cheaper and smaller and lighter than any QR system.

Something like Heinz made a while back. I can't find the picture but a rail plate that just screws onto the lens ring and then a knob/bolt holds it on the top rail.

A QR system only adds unnecessary weight and complexity. A knob/bolt is light and simple.

DemonDuck
12-28-2011, 04:21 AM
..

DemonDuck
12-28-2011, 04:22 AM
That is demonstrated in the very first announcement.
http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/showthread.php?4311-Ulitmate-M-Series-Pano-Heads
http://nodalninja.com/images/m/M1s-custom-1-650.jpg
It is a design intent in day 1. That is why the upper rail is not fixed to the rotator.
Dennis just adds a spacer to increase the clearance between the vertical rail and lens axis for better nadir patching.

Nick

But that's an M1 -- there is no way I would ever need an M1 or be able to afford one.

I'm afraid I am not a very good customer because I simply have neither the money or the need for most of your new products.

My NN3 is going to be my pano head for a long, long time. Maybe forever. I hope you continue to support NN3's.

nick fan
12-29-2011, 01:54 AM
But that's an M1 -- there is no way I would ever need an M1 or be able to afford one.

I'm afraid I am not a very good customer because I simply have neither the money or the need for most of your new products.

My NN3 is going to be my pano head for a long, long time. Maybe forever. I hope you continue to support NN3's.

I am making new lens ring plate for using the lens ring on NN3/4/5 without any QR, even though I only hear this request from you.
And a new T-adapter with anti-twisting parts at both side is ready too. So you can still use your NN3 happily. ;-)


Nick

DemonDuck
12-29-2011, 11:01 AM
Looks like I'll be buying a lens ring then. As soon as I figure out which lens I want to use for the next couple of years. That's the hard part given how fast things change.

The new T-adapter sounds good -- but a little late for me. I'm going with the NEX which has a properly centered tripod hole. But any person who has a compact camera with an offset tripod hole need that.

But the lens ring plate for the NN3 -- that's really good. That alone will save lots of alignment hassle. Make it thick enough to give proper lens clearance between the lens and the upper arm. Small cameras fit really close to the upper arm and many lenses have bigger diameter than the height of the camera.

I'm glad you will continue to support the NN3. It's a real work horse.

DemonDuck
12-29-2011, 11:50 AM
I am making new lens ring plate for using the lens ring on NN3/4/5 without any QR, even though I only hear this request from you.
Nick

Maybe I'm the only one who is not afraid to speak my mind. Most of the people here hold you in high regard and are intimidated by you. I hold you in high regard and am a little intimidated by you but think it is important for you to hear ideas and opinions that are different than the rest. That may piss you off at times but in the long run -- it will help you produce a stronger product line.

John Houghton
12-29-2011, 02:29 PM
Most of the people here hold you in high regard and are intimidated by you.
I find that an extraordinary statement. From Chambers Dictionary:
intimidate: verb transitive: to strike fear into; to influence by threats or violence.
I cannot believe that anyone would get this impression of Nick from his helpful and responsive postings here and elsewhere.
.
John

DennisS
12-29-2011, 02:42 PM
I find Nick to be the exact opposite of intimidating. Very easy to talk to while discussing ideas.

DemonDuck
12-29-2011, 04:54 PM
I find that an extraordinary statement. From Chambers Dictionary:
intimidate: verb transitive: to strike fear into; to influence by threats or violence.
I cannot believe that anyone would get this impression of Nick from his helpful and responsive postings here and elsewhere.
.
John

Meriam Webster --
intimidate: : to make timid or fearful

I feel a little timid expressing my ideas and viewpoints. I sort of feel that I should mind my own business. But I've invested a lot of time into learning how to shoot panos -- at whatever level of ability I have. And I feel the need for certain pieces of equipment that are not offered by Nodal Ninja. But everybody else seems perfectly satisfied. So when I speak out about my perceived needs, I feel like I'm interrupting a group of people that is perfectly content.

That makes me a little timid and when I write stuff here in this and other blogs, I get a little nervous or fearful at potential reaction.

I think others probably feel the same way.

John, you took an extreme definition of intimidate. It's not like that.

DennisS
12-29-2011, 07:10 PM
DD,

As you can see from my posts on the various forums, I love to think "outside the box".

Back in 2009 (or there abouts) I suggested to Nick the Nadir adapter, ring mount pano head and a ring mount adapter kit for the NN3. Nick and his distributors were not as enthusiastic as I was about the ideas. Fast forward to 2010/2011. We now have the Nadir adapter and a ring mount pano head (kind of, sort of, about 98% there). Can a ring mount adapter kit for the NN3 be just around the corner?

There are most likely people out there who get tired of seeing me make stuff. I say "too bad". Making pano gear is a way to combine two of my hobbies: machining and panography. When I put my camera on a pano head I also hold up my micrometer to see how precise I can position the camera. The level of precision I seek is not required. This is, after all, supposed to be fun.

Do not ever be afraid to "think outside the box" and voice your thoughts. How else will new equipment come to market? Take a look at ( web site omitted due to conflict of interests ) See anything new in the last several years? NOPE.

I am in a very fortunate position that I can actually make pretty much whatever I want in order to bring a concept to life. You do not want to know how much the first ring mount pano head with a built in Nadir adapter actually cost me to make, both in materials and time. Let’s just say that the retail price of the M1L does not come close. Here is the "proof of concept" for the Nadir adapter: www.dlsphoto.net/Panoguide/1st_attempt.jpg Here is the final product: www.dlsphoto.net/NadarBracket/1.JPG. You have no idea how many steps and variations I went through getting from point A to point B. Most of the stuff I make actually works. Some of it does not.

Keep the ideas coming. There is a company out there that actually listens.

Dennis

DemonDuck
12-30-2011, 03:53 AM
Dennis -- thanks for the encouragement and support. I appreciate your tinkering also. I wish I had your talent and facility to make stuff.

Kidraver
05-21-2012, 04:42 AM
Demon Duck, try this view of Nick, here is a guy that is showing a total involvement in his product, spends his own time and energies answering folks questions in the forums, responds to user's requests, try getting that from the boss of any other company, try the half full approach, not the half empty attitude you seem to be stuck with.

Kidraver
05-21-2012, 04:47 AM
Firstly DennisS your ideas and shopwork are first rate, well done, just one question, do you think that the ability to slide the upper rotator up or down on the vertical rail would have any benefits? cheers and i hope your idea is implemented, i have a 14-24 nikkor, would it be possible to use the device for this lens? cheers bro.

DennisS
05-21-2012, 08:28 AM
Offhand I see no benefit in sliding the upper pivot up or down on the vertical rail. That does not mean there is no benefit. I think the dovetails are there for aesthetic reasons. One could mount accessories on the dovetails (remote sensor, etc...). I am playing around with a laser pointer to aid in placing the tripod when you slide over for the Nadir patch shot. The vertical dovetails seem to be the mounting point. Not too sure just yet.

DemonDuck
05-21-2012, 09:32 AM
Demon Duck, try this view of Nick, here is a guy that is showing a total involvement in his product, spends his own time and energies answering folks questions in the forums, responds to user's requests, try getting that from the boss of any other company, try the half full approach, not the half empty attitude you seem to be stuck with.

From 12-29-2011 10:50 AM:

Maybe I'm the only one who is not afraid to speak my mind. Most of the people here hold you in high regard and are intimidated by you. I hold you in high regard and am a little intimidated by you but think it is important for you to hear ideas and opinions that are different than the rest. That may piss you off at times but in the long run -- it will help you produce a stronger product line.

Nick, what ever happened to the lens ring adapter for NN3?

nick fan
05-21-2012, 09:36 PM
From 12-29-2011 10:50 AM:


Nick, what ever happened to the lens ring adapter for NN3?

That is probably ready. I will check.
But we are also releasing new product which will probably make it obsolete.

Nick

DemonDuck
05-21-2012, 11:15 PM
You're teasing us again :-)

Vincèn
05-22-2012, 02:59 AM
But we are also releasing new product which will probably make it obsolete.
:thumbup: