NN3 +Nikon D300+10.5mm = NADIR problem [Archive] - Nodal Ninja Forum

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arvinkg
03-26-2011, 12:59 PM
Hi folks...i am using for a year NN3 with my Nikon D300 and Tokina 12-24 for shooting panoramas mostly in 360 degree..

Now I have 10.5mm fish eye and I am trying to shoot 360 x 180 degree panorama but there is a huge problem.

I do 6 shoots in horizontal, then I tilt the lens up for zenit but for nadir, I remove the Nikon from NN3 and shoot straight down for Nadir...and that is a problem.

I see my legs...and I can not stiitch panorama? It is Ok if I am on the grass or something like that - I do cloning in photoshop and that is perfectly stitched using the Autopano Giga....but it is mission imposible if I am in a church or anywhere where there are a tiles with texture on the floor...and ad to the problem my legs, besides tiles..and I can not clone that picture for nadir....and I can not stitch

What to do..how to shoot nadir in flor covered with tiles or textures and to avoid my legs?

Thanks a lot for help

hindenhaag
03-26-2011, 01:40 PM
Hi,

Just add a NN Nadir adapter, without removing the camera from your tripod shoot 2x nadir at -90° .

Just download a trial version of PTGui Pro, mask out your tripod, stitch and set up a template to only add some CP manually in future projects. I prefer my PTGui Pro to my Autopano Giga to solve this problem.

If you like just download this:

http://homepage.mac.com/hindenhaag/filechute/D300s_Nikkor10.5_f2.zip

Workflow: 0°, +5° and +7.5° to check the Zenith Nadir holes with R1/R10, 2x +60° 180° visa versa to test horizontal connection in case of impossible Zenith at +90°, +90°, 2x -90°Nadir with Nadir Adapter.

Orange dots are laser placed in vertical and horizontal to set up a template in PTGuiPro by spreading CP to the outer circle of the lens in vertical and horizontal direction. You could make a template with this set of pics, adapt it to your project and "fine tune" it with a project shot with your equipment. © 2011 hindenhaag@mac.com

Feel free to ask. I am working on a video.

Regards,
Heinz

arvinkg
03-26-2011, 02:18 PM
Hi, thanks for reply..i dont understan why to "shoot 2x nadir at -90° " Why to shoot 2 times nadir at same position?

any hint for Autopano giga, I am already using it...?

thanks

DennisS
03-26-2011, 07:24 PM
Arvinkg,

What follows applies to PTGui. Not sure if Autopano has the same features.

After shooting the Zenith (last shot in your series) you rotate the camera so it is pointing straight down at the pano head and take your Nadir shot. Since this view has been taken at the same NPP as the rest of the pano, it will stitch in quite nicely. Now comes the part where you remove the tripod.

With the Nadir adapter, after you take the 1st Nadir shot, you swing the camera out, slide the tripod over and take your patch shot. This patch shot is actually rotated 180 degrees from the Nadir shot. In Windows Explorer, I rotate this patch shot 180 degrees so it lines up with the Nadir shot.

After stitching the first 8 pictures together, you bring in the patch shot. You mask out the pano head and tripod in the Nadir shot, mask out the tripod in the patch shot. You can have PTGui auto generate control points between the Nadir shot and the patch shot. If not, you can manually add 4 or 5 control points joining the Nadir and patch shot together. I always turn on viewpoint correction for the patch shot.

Here is how I do it: http://www.dlsphoto.net/Tutorials/NadirPatch2/index.htm

In your case where you do not have the Nadir adapter, you still need to take the Nadir shot with the camera on the pano head. After removing the camera and tripod, you hold the camera in the same position it was in and take the patch shot. Be careful to stand in an area where you will be able to mask out your feet and such. Stitching will then follow the same steps as above.

Hope this clears things up. If not, ask away.

Dennis

nick fan
03-26-2011, 09:20 PM
Hi, thanks for reply..i dont understan why to "shoot 2x nadir at -90° " Why to shoot 2 times nadir at same position?

any hint for Autopano giga, I am already using it...?

thanks

take 2x nadir at -90 deg at 0 and 90 deg horizontal rotation. This patches the the footprints of lower rail and leave the footprint of rotator only.
alternatively, you can shoot at -15 deg, 6 shots around plus zenith. This reduces the nadir footprint and make nadir patching easier, without using 2x -90 deg shot.

Nick

arvinkg
03-27-2011, 10:32 AM
denis, thanks a lot..now i undersand..here are my works

http://www.panoramasrbije.com/index.php

arvinkg
03-28-2011, 12:39 PM
I tryed this way:

I shoot 6 pics around at 90 degree horizontalu, 1 straight up for zenit and then I turn at -90 degre and shoot for nadir. In that shot I have tripod and head in the view. Then I remove camera from the tripod and my friend remove tripod while I am holding camera in the position like in the previous (7th) shot .

I import image 7 and 8 (nadir) in photoshop and remove the tripod.

I import the pictures (8 pics) in Autopano giga2 and stitch the images.

Everything looks good but I have a one problem, one part of the panorama looks bended..it has no good vertical lines..I tryed PtguiPro and one room (i did those tests in 2 different rooms) and it is better then panorama stiched with Autopano but for another room the Ptgui said "there is not enough control point"

I uploaded mu stiched photo and original 8 pictures to rapidshare at this link:

http://rapidshare.com/files/454830962/forum.zip

can someone try to stitch those photos in order to see if it will be bended at some point so I will know if the problem is software or my NN3 is not in level at all clicks?

Please,. upload your stiched file so we can discus about.

Thanks for help people...Arvin

arvinkg
03-28-2011, 02:50 PM
i have a problem. I made it with your advice...6 horizontal shot and 1 zenit and 2 nadir..one from tripod, and one handheld.

But I have another problem

The sticher panorama is a little bend to one side, just a part of panorama. it is always the case with 360 x 180 panorama...

when I do only 360 degree (horizontal steatchig only) from the same pictures I use for 360 x 180...it is good...perfect verticals...but in 360 x 180, my verticals are bend to the left on part of a panorama,.

I am using Autopano Giga 2.

When I try PTGui, it is a little better...but not always.

In one panorama, PtGui said "there is not enough control points" I tryed to add them but there is no button..render or steach panorama after adding control point....any hint why the part of panorama is bended? I am using NN3

Thanks

DennisS
03-28-2011, 03:52 PM
Sounds like you need to add some vertical control points in order to level out your panorama in PTGui. Posting your pictures at this point would help a lot and get you an answer quicker.

John Houghton
03-28-2011, 11:27 PM
In one panorama, PtGui said "there is not enough control points" I tryed to add them but there is no button..render or steach panorama after adding control point....any hint why the part of panorama is bended? I am using NN3

If you return to the Project Assistant tab and select advanced mode using the button on the right, you will have direct access to all the available tabs. You can then re-optimize the project and generate the output by selecting the appropriate tabs.

To level the panorama using vertical line control points, see this tutorial (http://www.johnhpanos.com/levtut.htm). When there are no vertical features, you can level the panorama visually by dragging the image in the Panorama Editor window. See http://www.ptgui.com/man/straighten.html.

John

arvinkg
03-28-2011, 11:43 PM
a ha..ok here are the original 8 photos and stitched..please let me know if you stitch images without bendind to one side, and how to add CP for vertical?

Thanks

http://rapidshare.com/files/454894559/forum.zip

hindenhaag
03-29-2011, 04:26 AM
Hi,

Just did a quick check: I started with the 6 around without Z + N to get a better overview.

I aligned them, then >= got to advanced, >optimizer,>minimize...>heavy + lens shift, >optimize: distance around 18. >ok. then use the top tab list: control point >del worst controlpoint, >optimze: very good: 1,...

Now go to create pano: and this is what I get without adding any CP.

http://homepage.mac.com/hindenhaag/filechute/_ARV5521%20Panorama.jpg

I will add Z + N later on and show you how to add cp manually for vertical.

I always use heavy and lens shift for fisheye.

Regards,
Heinz

BTW: Don't you loose some pixels with all these stickers on your TV screen? Just a joke....

hansnyberg
03-29-2011, 05:33 AM
Your nadir will never stitch as it is not taken in the correct NPP and it contains 3D objects.
If you take panoramas with not flat nadir you have to be able to take the nadir in perfect position.
It can be done, I now do it almost as standard. It does just need you to use a pointer for the position but using my method for taking the nadir it is done in 2 minutes without any special adapters on the panohead. I even do batch stitching with the nadir included.
http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/batch-stitching-nadir/

However your panorama without the nadir stitches perfect if you ad some manual controlpoints at top or bottom of the images.
I guess also your original will make much more and better auto controlpoints then the small JPG you sent.
Always use Raw and convert to TIF.

If you use the vertical controlpoints as John pointed out and optimizes manually with them and with shift included you should have no problems without the nadir.
Next time you should take the 6 around at -10 degrees. This will make the missing nadir much smaller and you should make sure you only have flat areas missing. Then you can easy stitch the nadir by using the viewpoint option and the mask option in PTGui Pro.
You have to mask all areas out which are not flat.

Your current nadir may be possible to ad on a nadir cubeface in photoshop but it will need some special editing

Oh yes another thing. When your zenith is almost empty of subjects like in this pano take it at +65 instead of +90.
This will almost always generate enough controlpoints enough for automatic stitching.

Hans

John Houghton
03-29-2011, 05:38 AM
My stitch is at http://www.johnhpanos.com/forum-jh.zip. There are parallax problems at the nadir, which I dealt with by editing the nadir in Photoshop. (I used viewpoint correction on the nadir image to align it correctly with the horizontal shots, but output it in a separate equirectangular image. Rectilinear views were then extracted from the main and nadir equirectangular images for merging manually). It's not quite perfect and needs to be done a little more carefully, but it isn't too bad. You will find blending much easier if you give all the shots exactly the same exposure, aperture and white balance settings.

John

arvinkg
03-29-2011, 10:56 AM
ok just 2 questions:

1. @ hansnyberg: if I shoot zenit at +65, I think I will have missing part from +65 to +90 degree...right? How to stitch zenit with empty part (1 zenit picure)

2. does anyone know why the panorama is bended to the left? Any chance of corecting it now or will have to take shots again

thanks

ps. @john: this is very good.. can you please tell me how you corrected the bending? thanks

John Houghton
03-29-2011, 11:40 AM
Q1. You can tilt the camera down quite a lot for taking the zenith and still cover the hole at the zenith left by the horizontal shots. You can check this by using the Panorama Editor window and dragging the zenith image down manually in the edit individual images mode, or you can go to the Image Parameters tab and set different pitch values for the zenith image until you see part of the hole appear.

Q2. The panorama will not bend to the left if you stitch it properly. I found some of the automatically placed control points were not on matching features because there are some repeating elements where it is easy to pick the wrong features (e.g. on the blind slats). Bad points can skew the panorama and the solution is to remove/correct any badly placed points. (Use the control points table to find points with large distance values). But your panorama may simply not be levelled. This only takes less than a minute to do. See the tutorial (including video) to which I have already referred you, i.e. http://www.johnhpanos.com/levtut.htm. You will find the vertical line points I used in the project file I uploaded. Again, you can find those points via the control points table in advanced mode.

John

hansnyberg
03-29-2011, 11:51 AM
ok just 2 questions:

1. @ hansnyberg: if I shoot zenit at +65, I think I will have missing part from +65 to +90 degree...right? How to stitch zenit with empty part (1 zenit picure)

2. does anyone know why the panorama is bended to the left? Any chance of corecting it now or will have to take shots again

thanks

ps. @john: this is very good.. can you please tell me how you corrected the bending? thanks


Answers
1. No, this is how many of us shoot zenith with a fullframe fisheye. At +65 you have all zenith covered. Actually you have it at 60 but I prefer 65 to exclude the corners.
Think a little about it and you understand, or just use the editor in PTGui to set any image at +65

2. You have got the answer 2 times now . USE VERTICAL CONTROLPOINTS.
The major reason that your stitch was so much "bended" was that you bad nadir is confusing all the other settings if you are trying to stitch it together with the other images.
Try stitch you pano without it and you will se that it works much better and even without vertical controlpoints you get a better pano.

Hans


Hans

arvinkg
03-30-2011, 10:55 PM
@hans

ok, I understand. since I am trying to use ptgui pro for the first time, can you tell me does it have option to first stitch all horizontals and zenith and after I am sure they are stitched good, then to add a nadir?

hindenhaag
03-30-2011, 11:53 PM
Having problems with stitching you always should add Zenith and Nadir later one by one. This is the best way to check the problems. Load images, all of them or without Zenith and Nadir. Having loaded step to source images in the advanced tab, at the bottom you can always add or delete pictures or change in follow up order.

try the video tutorials : http://www.ptgui.com/links.html

Heinz