Ulitmate M Series Pano Heads [Archive] - Nodal Ninja Forum

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Bill Bailey
02-09-2011, 10:33 AM
Well the wait is finally over. Nodal Ninja Ultimate Modular System is the designer’s dream come true ever since the release of first Nodal Ninja SPH-1 seven years ago. It is based on Arca Swiss compatible system, the industry standard for high end photographic support system, together with innovative features badly needed by panoramic photographers. Precision CNC machined from premium T6061 aluminum and anodized, it has high precision, accuracy, durability and long lifetime all in one. The first model of this modular system is the M1 which has 7.5 degree precise positive stops at the upper rotator, supporting lenses from ultra wide angles to 200mm telephotos. It allows templates to be used to speed up stitching and reduce stitching errors.

This the the larger of the 2 base configurations for the Ultimate M1 series pano heads.

http://nodalninja.com/images/m/M1L-5-650.jpg

http://nodalninja.com/images/m/M1L-1-650.jpg

http://nodalninja.com/images/m/M1L-2-650.jpg

http://nodalninja.com/images/m/M1L-3-650.jpg

http://nodalninja.com/images/m/M1L-4-650.jpg



This the the smaller of the 2 base configurations for the Ultimate M1 series pano heads.

http://nodalninja.com/images/m/M1s-1-650.jpg

http://nodalninja.com/images/m/M1s-2-650.jpg




Here is a custom configuration showing use with a ring clamp

http://nodalninja.com/images/m/M1s-custom-1-650.jpg

We are accepting pre orders now however initial quantities are very limited.
Orders will be shppped in order they are received.
http://store.nodalninja.com/categories/Ultimate-M-Series/

thx
Bill

DennisS
02-09-2011, 06:26 PM
Is there a Nadir adapter in the works for these two pano heads?

nick fan
02-09-2011, 08:22 PM
Is there a Nadir adapter in the works for these two pano heads?

yes.

nick

Vincèn
02-09-2011, 10:10 PM
yes.
Do we need one for larger model ? as we just need to screw vertical rail in opposite on horizontal rail and you can shoot nadir, right ?

Vincèn

nick fan
02-09-2011, 10:40 PM
Do we need one for larger model ? as we just need to screw vertical rail in opposite on horizontal rail and you can shoot nadir, right ?

Vincèn

speed and convenience. Otherwise a pano head is not even needed. ;-)

Nick

John Houghton
02-10-2011, 12:12 AM
The new design looks very solid and it will be excellent if it can manage template stitching without control points. One minor downside of the lower rail mounting is that it might not be possible to quickly adjust the lower rail position by aligning the viewfinder centre focus point with the centre of the rotator. Is that the case? Are there any figures available for the weights of M1 configurations?

John

hindenhaag
02-10-2011, 01:40 AM
Looks a bit like the bubble leveller is in the centre when the lower rail is set up to 2,5cm.

But there might be marks on top of the clamp to use it to focus to the rotation center?

Heinz

nick fan
02-10-2011, 01:49 AM
The new design looks very solid and it will be excellent if it can manage template stitching without control points.
we will never advertise/ guarantee this feature. But in your hand, I am sure it can.



One minor downside of the lower rail mounting is that it might not be possible to quickly adjust the lower rail position by aligning the viewfinder centre focus point with the centre of the rotator. Is that the case? Are there any figures available for the weights of M1 configurations?

John
I think the marking on the clamp can be used as a reference. In fact using a ruler to measure the camera height and then calculated the NPP value can be an easier approach. This is possible due to much higher precision in the design and manufacturing of the Ultimate series. I will make some tools for easily determination of NPP too.
My aim is to build a certified NPP database for as many cameras / lenses as possible. Then I will make integrated rail stops for sales. Some good excuse to buy lots of gear for myself. Using the M1 will never be as easy before. More details to follow.

Nick

Elliot
02-10-2011, 04:51 AM
Nick

I travel a lot by airline and I find myslef taking apart the arm and putting it back together and having to tweak the head all the time. If you produce the database for the various lenses along with some tools to determine the NPP this would go a long way with me.


Questions:

Is the camera plate going to be specific to the camera or lens to facilitate the camera mounting.

When will you start shipping

When can we see the NPP tools

WHen can we see the Database being published

The unit looks very good..... Congratulations...!

Thanks
Elliot

nick fan
02-10-2011, 05:30 AM
Questions:

Is the camera plate going to be specific to the camera or lens to facilitate the camera mounting.

as usual, we will use a semi-univeral approach. a range of camera plates, each works for as many cameras as possible, match the shape of the cameras and provide reproducible and secured mounting.



When will you start shipping
We will start first unit soon. Shipping date for individual order will depends on the number and sequence of pre-orders.



When can we see the NPP tools
I guess in March/ April. The conventional methods of NPP determination works just well.



WHen can we see the Database being published
The database will not be published. Cost to get a lens/ camera for calibration is very high. We need to keep this valuable info for ourselves. of course, we can share available data privately in email. Hey, don't expect I will have many NPP data very soon.

Nick

viewfinder
02-11-2011, 01:54 PM
What is the main difference between the larger and smaller configuration, apart from the obvious size differences?

Specifically, I am interested in which configuration for which camera. I have a D3s and D7000, so would the smaller configuration be usable with the D3s, or will a new set of lower and upper arms be required to accommodate the D3s?

Obviously the main goal is the overall cost of having to support both cameras, whether to start small but add modular pieces to support the D3s later, or just go with the larger configuration from the word go, etc.

Any information or recommendation for the combination of the modular pieces with the two cameras mention above would be very much appreciated. Also, some idea of the cost for the various pieces (longer lower/upper arm, etc.) would be very useful as well. Thanks.

BTW, what camera plate comes with either of the systems? Universal or specifically matched to camera?

Regards,
Jonathan

nick fan
02-11-2011, 07:22 PM
What is the main difference between the larger and smaller configuration, apart from the obvious size differences?

Larger model is supposed to support larger cameras and lenses. Its rails must be stronger (and thus heavier) as well. The smaller unit is slighter larger and stronger than NN3II. It is recommended for DSLRS without battery grip and most wide angle lenses. The larger Unit is larger and stronger than NN5 and will support most cameras and lenses.



Specifically, I am interested in which configuration for which camera. I have a D3s and D7000, so would the smaller configuration be usable with the D3s, or will a new set of lower and upper arms be required to accommodate the D3s?

Obviously the main goal is the overall cost of having to support both cameras, whether to start small but add modular pieces to support the D3s later, or just go with the larger configuration from the word go, etc.

Any information or recommendation for the combination of the modular pieces with the two cameras mention above would be very much appreciated. Also, some idea of the cost for the various pieces (longer lower/upper arm, etc.) would be very useful as well. Thanks.


Larger config for your cameras obviously. There are not many cameras bigger or heavier than them ;-)
More info will be released soon.



BTW, what camera plate comes with either of the systems? Universal or specifically matched to camera?
we have one that matches D3 well. More camera specific plates to develop soon. We have a universal one for those cameras lacking a specific plate.

Nick

viewfinder
02-11-2011, 10:42 PM
Thanks Nick for the info.



Larger config for your cameras obviously. There are not many cameras bigger or heavier than them ;-)
More info will be released soon.

So if I went for the smaller config, is it possible to upgrade to the larger config at a later stage? I assume I need to replace both arms?



we have one that matches D3 well. More camera specific plates to develop soon. We have a universal one for those cameras lacking a specific plate.

Nick
The pre-order page mentioned a bonus camera plate, do we get a choice as to which? I am erring towards the D7000 initially.

Regards,
Jonathan

nick fan
02-12-2011, 01:00 AM
Thanks Nick for the info.


So if I went for the smaller config, is it possible to upgrade to the larger config at a later stage? I assume I need to replace both arms?
there are 3 rails: lower, vertical and upper rails. The lower and vertical must be from larger unit to support D3. If you are not urgently need a M1, please wait for us to make custom configuration available. The initial availabily is very limited after all.



The pre-order page mentioned a bonus camera plate, do we get a choice as to which? I am erring towards the D7000 initially.

It depends on what is available. I only have 2 at the moment. One for Canon DSLRs with battery grip and Nikon D1/2/3. the other is a universal one. I will offer special discount for upgrading to a camera specific plate when available.

NIck

johnchoy
02-13-2011, 07:17 AM
there are 3 rails: lower, vertical and upper rails. The lower and vertical must be from larger unit to support D3. If you are not urgently need a M1, please wait for us to make custom configuration available.

I have the NN5 with RD 16. Does it mean I can buy the M1 Rails only ?

John

nick fan
02-13-2011, 08:17 AM
I have the NN5 with RD 16. Does it mean I can buy the M1 Rails only ?

John
all components are available individually.
for prior NN users who bought new from authorized reseller, please wait for announcement of special discount and arrangement. :-)

nick

Sam Rohn
02-13-2011, 08:13 PM
congrats nick, the new heads looks awesome :)

one question, it looks like the camera mounting clamp can only be attached to the end of the rail, possibly limiting that configs use with fisheyes unless a ring mount is used instead of the camera mounting rail ?

will there be shorter rails or ideally, a camera clamp that can be positioned along the rail as opposed to just the end ? this would allow more versatility with fewer parts to pack in ones bag

ok, one more question, what is the approx weight of the M1-L ?

thanks :)

sam

nick fan
02-14-2011, 12:45 AM
congrats nick, the new heads looks awesome :)

one question, it looks like the camera mounting clamp can only be attached to the end of the rail, possibly limiting that configs use with fisheyes unless a ring mount is used instead of the camera mounting rail ?

will there be shorter rails or ideally, a camera clamp that can be positioned along the rail as opposed to just the end ? this would allow more versatility with fewer parts to pack in ones bag

ok, one more question, what is the approx weight of the M1-L ?

thanks :)

sam

you are a good observer. yes, part of upper rail may get into the image. we have 3 multifuntional rails at the moment. One is thin with a length of 160mm (shown in M1S), other 2 are thick with lengths of 170mm and 210mm. The M1L shown has two 210mm rails. I just find that 170mm rail will be a better fit for the upper rail. So 170mm rail will be the one shipped and M1L price is reduced by $10. even with 170mm rail, significant amount of rail may get into the image for a compact fisheye lens such as a shaved Nikon 10.5mm on FF camera. As you have suggested, a lens ring will be an excellent solution. Besides, we are making one more clamp which can be installed under the upper rail end clamp. This clamp will allow the camera or lens ring to slide along the upper rail. So, there is no real problem here. :-)

M1L with RD16 has a weight of ~1.5kg. The thick rails are much stronger than NN5 and will support tele lens such as 300mm F2.8 very well when the M2 is out. Did I say there will be lots of products to be released this year? :-) The number of product released this year may exceed sum of past 7 years!

M1S with RD8 is about 1.1kg.


Nick

Seacat
02-14-2011, 07:51 AM
Ill wait till the Ulitmate M -series also be for sales with out RD8 or RD16. I've already a RD16 with my NN5.

Nick, i've a Canon 1D MkIII witch will be the best solution for me?

Thanks!

Johan

DemonDuck
02-14-2011, 08:52 AM
The number of product released this year may exceed sum of past 7 years!
Nick

Will any of your new products be accessories for the NN3? Like a universal lens collar to clamp onto a compact camera adapter tube that would slide along the top rail of the NN3 and hold the camera in perfect alignment -- unlike the T-XX adapters that allow the camera to twist out of alignment?:sad:

nick fan
02-14-2011, 06:46 PM
Ill wait till the Ulitmate M -series also be for sales with out RD8 or RD16. I've already a RD16 with my NN5.

Nick, i've a Canon 1D MkIII witch will be the best solution for me?

Thanks!

Johan

We will try to do the best for our beloved customers. To qualify for our upgrade discount, you can buy an M1 without rotator, together with a default rotator for NN5.
Canon 1D series and Nikon D1/2/3/4 series will need the larger model.

Nick

nick fan
02-14-2011, 06:49 PM
Will any of your new products be accessories for the NN3? Like a universal lens collar to clamp onto a compact camera adapter tube that would slide along the top rail of the NN3 and hold the camera in perfect alignment -- unlike the T-XX adapters that allow the camera to twist out of alignment?:sad:


an updated T-adapter will be released in the near future.
I will see how I can make a cheap universal lens ring for P&S. :-)

Nick

pedro.silva
02-20-2011, 05:43 AM
Will the next models have more smaller precise positive stops at the upper rotator, supporting "longer" lenses? If so, any idea of when?


The first model of this modular system is the M1 which has 7.5 degree precise positive stops at the upper rotator, supporting lenses from ultra wide angles to 200mm telephotos. It allows templates to be used to speed up stitching and reduce stitching errors.
Bill

nick fan
02-20-2011, 06:07 AM
Will the next models have more smaller precise positive stops at the upper rotator, supporting "longer" lenses? If so, any idea of when?

yes, I plan to release M2 to support 400mm lens this year. This require new lower and upper rotators.
No concrete time yet.

Nick

PS some people show very high interest in the M2 offline. Here is some more info.
M2 will co-exist with M1. It will be targeting people making high resolution mosaic using lenses >200mm eq. fl. It can also be used to make spherical panos. but it will have larger rotator foot prints. It is bigger, heavier and more expensive. The lower rotator will only have very fine intervals to support >200mm lens. Fisheye users will need to skip lots of stops. Well, one can use other rotators such as RD8/16 instead since it is completely modular.

pedro.silva
02-20-2011, 06:58 AM
Thank you!

yes, I plan to release M2 to support 400mm lens this year. This require new lower and upper rotators.
No concrete time yet.

Nick

bbc597
02-21-2011, 02:54 PM
yes, I plan to release M2 to support 400mm lens this year. This require new lower and upper rotators.
No concrete time yet.

Nick

What will the new M2 upper rotator positive stop(s) be?

Also, will the new M2 lower rotator have fewer detents with the smaller/finer detent settings? (Samller/finer than the current 3.75)

nick fan
02-21-2011, 08:41 PM
What will the new M2 upper rotator positive stop(s) be?

Also, will the new M2 lower rotator have fewer detents with the smaller/finer detent settings? (Samller/finer than the current 3.75)

it will have finer detent/ stop to support >400mm eq lens. No more info at this stage as it is still undervelopment.
It will be achieved by replacing the lower and upper rotator of M1L.

Nick

PS some people show very high interest in the M2 offline. Here is some more info.
M2 will co-exist with M1. It will be targeting people making high resolution mosaic using lenses >200mm eq. fl. It can also be used to make spherical panos. but it will have larger rotator foot prints. It is bigger, heavier and more expensive. The lower rotator will only have very fine intervals to support >200mm lens. Fisheye users will need to skip lots of stops. Well, one can use other rotators such as RD8/16 instead since it is completely modular.

bbc597
02-21-2011, 09:25 PM
O.K., I got it...thanks.

With the new/current M1 upper rotator and its 7.5 degree positive stops, can I use other settings on the upper rotator besides those at the positive stops?

Vincèn
02-21-2011, 09:46 PM
With the new/current M1 upper rotator and its 7.5 degree positive stops, can I use other settings on the upper rotator besides those at the positive stops?
Nope it won't hold well if you try to lock it between two stops, and very quickly it'll move to nearest stop !

Vincèn

bbc597
02-21-2011, 11:11 PM
Was the NN5 the same with its 15 degree stops? (will not hold between the 15 degree stops)

And the NN5L without the positive stops, how was it able to hold without moving?

Vincèn
02-21-2011, 11:38 PM
Was the NN5 the same with its 15 degree stops? (will not hold between the 15 degree stops)
On NN5 you can unlock that 15º stop mechanism ;)


And the NN5L without the positive stops, how was it able to hold without moving?
it was able to hold pretty heavy stuffs if it was tighten correctly (I use myself Nikon D3 with lens 14-24 on it without problems :) which is around 2.5kg for whole set ;)

Vincèn

nick fan
02-22-2011, 08:51 AM
On NN5 you can unlock that 15º stop mechanism ;)


it was able to hold pretty heavy stuffs if it was tighten correctly (I use myself Nikon D3 with lens 14-24 on it without problems :) which is around 2.5kg for whole set ;)

Vincèn

That is something unique in NN5, even > 3 yrs after its release.

nick

bbc597
02-22-2011, 09:04 AM
Just to be clear, the new M1 upper rotator can only be used at the 7.5 degree stops?

nick fan
02-22-2011, 09:29 AM
Just to be clear, the new M1 upper rotator can only be used at the 7.5 degree stops?
yes. you can only shoot at 7.5 deg intervals, 15 deg intervals, 22.5 deg intervals, 30 deg intervals etc
more than enough for spherical pano makers.

Nick

bbc597
02-22-2011, 09:38 AM
yes. you can only shoot at 7.5 deg intervals, 15 deg intervals, 22.5 deg intervals, 30 deg intervals etc
more than enough for spherical pano makers.

Nick

With the longest focal length being ~155mm on a full frame camera mounted in landscape orientation with 15% overlap?

And with the longest focal length being ~230mm on a full frame camera mounted in portrait orientation with 15% overlap?

hindenhaag
02-22-2011, 09:41 AM
The NN5 had down to 2,5° marks on the upper rotator ring. Besides Vincen's set up I used it with 70-200mm as well without any problem in between the 15° stop mechanism. Even more torque to the upper rotator.

I did not try a NN5L. But I think it should be the same as NN5 upper rotator. I can not remember any question about the upper rotator of NN5L loosing its position since 2008.

Heinz

bbc597
02-22-2011, 09:58 AM
The NN5 had down to 2,5° marks on the upper rotator ring. Besides Vincen's set up I used it with 70-200mm as well without any problem in between the 15° stop mechanism. Even more torque to the upper rotator.

I did not try a NN5L. But I think it should be the same as NN5 upper rotator. I can not remember any question about the upper rotator of NN5L loosing its position since 2008.

Heinz

Thanks Heinz...However I'm looking for answers on the new M1 upper rotator.

hindenhaag
02-22-2011, 10:47 AM
I realized it. The answer was based on your questions. Right now there is no solution to set the upper rotator of the M1 to anything else but 7.5° x settings.

So if you need upper rotator settings besides this with 5° or 2.5° intervals, right now the only solution is the NN5/NN5L depending on your camera lens combination. So if you need this right now, try to get a NN5.

Nick knows about questions about longer focus lenses and their needs concerning rotator steps. He listens to customers questions. Right now, it is 7.5° on the upper rotator for M1.

Cheers,
Heinz

bbc597
02-22-2011, 11:01 AM
Cool...

How about the focal length questions from above with the upper rotator at 7.5 degrees?

"With the longest focal length being ~155mm on a full frame camera mounted in landscape orientation with 15% overlap? And with the longest focal length being ~230mm on a full frame camera mounted in portrait orientation with 15% overlap?"

hindenhaag
02-22-2011, 12:14 PM
You can sort out the answer with all responses I suppose.

Heinz

bbc597
02-22-2011, 12:59 PM
You can sort out the answer with all responses I suppose.

Heinz

I looked at all the responses, and my questions have not been answered.

Nick, can you help?

Quote Originally Posted by nick fan View Post
yes. you can only shoot at 7.5 deg intervals, 15 deg intervals, 22.5 deg intervals, 30 deg intervals etc
more than enough for spherical pano makers.

Nick

With the longest focal length being ~155mm on a full frame camera mounted in landscape orientation with 15% overlap?

And with the longest focal length being ~230mm on a full frame camera mounted in portrait orientation with 15% overlap?

nick fan
02-23-2011, 01:32 AM
With the longest focal length being ~155mm on a full frame camera mounted in landscape orientation with 15% overlap?

And with the longest focal length being ~230mm on a full frame camera mounted in portrait orientation with 15% overlap?

Right.
But I would be more conservative in the % overlap. For about 25% overlap and a full frame camera, max focal length is 135mm in landscape orientation and 200mm in portrait orientation.
To support longer focal length, a bigger and more fancy rotator is needed. I reserve it for M2 which will also serve as a gimbal arm for tele lenses.

Nick

hansnyberg
02-23-2011, 01:55 AM
I have to say that after reading this thread and doing some measurements on the images I can only say one thing. Skip it and start again. Perhaps you will then be able to do a decent design which is usable for us who does not want to have 3 different panoheads in the bag for different lenses and cameras.

The number of design flaws on this is simply to much. I now need to find another panohead to recommend to people who asks me.

Hans

nick fan
02-23-2011, 05:11 AM
I have to say that after reading this thread and doing some measurements on the images I can only say one thing. Skip it and start again. Perhaps you will then be able to do a decent design which is usable for us who does not want to have 3 different panoheads in the bag for different lenses and cameras.

The number of design flaws on this is simply to much. I now need to find another panohead to recommend to people who asks me.

Hans

hmm, what are the flaws? Please share them. You may save my company, my friend. :-)

ok, there are 2 obvious ones.
1. upper rail (210mm in photo) is too long and it will get too much into the image.
I check the NPP database, a shorter rail (170mm) will be just fine. It will be the one which is shipped. Price is adjusted in the listing. Even with this rail, it can still be a problem for smaller fisheye like shaved Nikon 10.5mm. The QR clamp position at the end of upper rail can be adjusted slightly. It will be fine for most users who use similarly sized lenses.
well, if a user need to use very differently sized (wide angle) lenses, it will need another rail. I know this is unacceptable for you.
solution: one more clamp can be added under the upper rail QR clamp to slide it along the rail. Each rail has sockets for installing a stop plate at the middle. This will keep the function of integrated stop plate.

2. the vertical head room is not enough for +90 deg zenith shots for some lenses. Right! but a "zenith" shot with smaller tilt angle is just fine. Lots of people do not take +90 deg zenith shot. Well, you can insist taking a perfect +90 deg zenith shot.
Solution: we will have a nadir adapter very soon that will increase the head room by 30mm. I have checked my database. It should be fine for most lenses that one may want to use for spherical panos. If not enough, I can make a taller one. Nadir adapter proves to be a very helpful accessory. So it is designed to be part of the system. And it works much better than the one on NN3/5. The vertical rail is designed to work for super tele lenses >400mm fl, it is kept short to increase stability and reduce bulk.

Are there other flaws that worth my recall of M1? You will win a demo unit by naming any flaw that I fail to consider during the past few years. :-)

Any design has its pros and cons. The design I choose has greatest versatility and expandability.

Nick

Rosauro
02-23-2011, 06:56 AM
Lots of people do not take +90 deg zenith shot.

I'll have to disagree. This is not the R1 series.

This is the M1 with an upper arm that's suppose to be able to "shoot up"?

nick fan
02-23-2011, 07:13 AM
I'll have to disagree. This is not the R1 series.

This is the M1 with an upper arm that's suppose to be able to "shoot up"?

Many NN3/5 users just shoot at 60 to 70 deg to close the zenith. Unlike R1/10, this is at the NPP.
As I said, a Nadir Adapter will solve this probem.



Nick

bbc597
02-23-2011, 10:08 AM
Right.
But I would be more conservative in the % overlap. For about 25% overlap and a full frame camera, max focal length is 135mm in landscape orientation and 200mm in portrait orientation.
To support longer focal length, a bigger and more fancy rotator is needed. I reserve it for M2 which will also serve as a gimbal arm for tele lenses.

Nick

Thanks...

Will the M1 be upgradeable to the soon to be bigger and more fancy rotator?

DemonDuck
02-23-2011, 10:56 AM
First the assumption that few people shoot a straight up zenith is a very limiting assumption. For example: with a fisheye, if you shoot straight up, you get the whole sky and that can be a real good thing to do on windy, cloudy days.

Here's some things I would change:
1) I would make the bottom rail a vertical U (channel) beam instead of a horizontal I beam and make the pivot as small as possible and put the bottom rail on one side of the pivot -- in back of the pivot so to speak. This gives a much smaller foot print from the rotator.

2) Like wise, I would make the vertical arm slide along the back side of the bottom rail. with the tilt rotator protruding forward and in the same plane as the rotator pivot. Vertical rail also a U beam fitted to the back of the top rotator. And the longer the vertical rail, the smaller the foot print. Make it ridiculously long or a two piece collapsing rail for transport. Think of the vertical rail as a proxy for a pole. Raising or lowering the vertical rail shouldn't have any affect on the NPP.

3) The top rail would be also be a U beam and taper sharply at the end to fit the upper rotator. This to minimize the footprint of the upper rotator when using a very wide or full frame fisheye lens.

4) I would emphasize the use of lens and adapter tube collars to mount cameras because they are more precise in alignment. Camera bottom plates are only precise when there is an extra pin to align the camera on the plate and usually only high end cameras have a hole for an extra alignment pin. Lower end cameras don't.

Further, plates and quick release hardware only add complexity and weight. And I doubt that many people change lenses or cameras during a shoot enough to justify that extra complexity and weight. An allen screw with a big head is not so very difficult and much simpler and lighter. This is just my uninformed opinion.

And all those nadir/zenith adapters and levelers could be replaced by a simple, sturdy ball head with an extra long neck on the part that moves around. And you get a much larger range of adjustment. 8 to 12 inches would be more than enough to let people flop the camera over and move the tripod for the nadir. And if you can shoot straight up, you don't need an adapter for the zenith.

I'm talking about the NN/M series kind of pano head. Not the RX series pano head which serve different uses.

Just my thoughts. I've said all this before.

nick fan
02-23-2011, 11:43 AM
Thanks...

Will the M1 be upgradeable to the soon to be bigger and more fancy rotator?

Replacing the upper rotator and I call it M2. Oh, yes, M1 and 2 are just different by the upper rotators. Lower rotators, we have plenty. They are all M1 or M2.

Nick

PS some people show very high interest in the M2 offline. Here is some more info.
M2 will co-exist with M1. It will be targeting people making high resolution mosaic using lenses >200mm eq. fl. It can also be used to make spherical panos. but it will have larger rotator foot prints. It is bigger, heavier and more expensive. The lower rotator will only have very fine intervals to support >200mm lens. Fisheye users will need to skip lots of stops. Well, one can use other rotators such as RD8/16 instead since it is completely modular.

nick fan
02-23-2011, 12:03 PM
First the assumption that few people shoot a straight up zenith is a very limiting assumption. For example: with a fisheye, if you shoot straight up, you get the whole sky and that can be a real good thing to do on windy, cloudy days.

Here's some things I would change:
1) I would make the bottom rail a vertical U (channel) beam instead of a horizontal I beam and make the pivot as small as possible and put the bottom rail on one side of the pivot -- in back of the pivot so to speak. This gives a much smaller foot print from the rotator.

2) Like wise, I would make the vertical arm slide along the back side of the bottom rail. with the tilt rotator protruding forward and in the same plane as the rotator pivot. Vertical rail also a U beam fitted to the back of the top rotator. And the longer the vertical rail, the smaller the foot print. Make it ridiculously long or a two piece collapsing rail for transport. Think of the vertical rail as a proxy for a pole. Raising or lowering the vertical rail shouldn't have any affect on the NPP.

3) The top rail would be also be a U beam and taper sharply at the end to fit the upper rotator. This to minimize the footprint of the upper rotator when using a very wide or full frame fisheye lens.

4) I would emphasize the use of lens and adapter tube collars to mount cameras because they are more precise in alignment. Camera bottom plates are only precise when there is an extra pin to align the camera on the plate and usually only high end cameras have a hole for an extra alignment pin. Lower end cameras don't.

Further, plates and quick release hardware only add complexity and weight. And I doubt that many people change lenses or cameras during a shoot enough to justify that extra complexity and weight. An allen screw with a big head is not so very difficult and much simpler and lighter. This is just my uninformed opinion.

And all those nadir/zenith adapters and levelers could be replaced by a simple, sturdy ball head with an extra long neck on the part that moves around. And you get a much larger range of adjustment. 8 to 12 inches would be more than enough to let people flop the camera over and move the tripod for the nadir. And if you can shoot straight up, you don't need an adapter for the zenith.

I'm talking about the NN/M series kind of pano head. Not the RX series pano head which serve different uses.

Just my thoughts. I've said all this before.

It seems that I need to find a time machine to take me back to the beginning 8 years ago. I need to re-read all my notes, web pages, emails etc to redefine my "Ultimate" concept. I have run all the wrong way in the past years!
Please tell me where I can have a class on pano head design. :helpsmilie:

Nick

Ps finally, I got an ingenious idea. I will skip M1 and M2 and go back to M0, which should be the truely ultimate pano head to develop.
http://www.philohome.com/tripod/shooting.htm

hansnyberg
02-23-2011, 01:38 PM
hmm, what are the flaws? Please share them. You may save my company, my friend. :-)

ok, there are 2 obvious ones.
1. upper rail (210mm in photo) is too long and it will get too much into the image.
I check the NPP database, a shorter rail (170mm) will be just fine. It will be the one which is shipped. Price is adjusted in the listing. Even with this rail, it can still be a problem for smaller fisheye like shaved Nikon 10.5mm. The QR clamp position at the end of upper rail can be adjusted slightly. It will be fine for most users who use similarly sized lenses.
well, if a user need to use very differently sized (wide angle) lenses, it will need another rail. I know this is unacceptable for you.
solution: one more clamp can be added under the upper rail QR clamp to slide it along the rail. Each rail has sockets for installing a stop plate at the middle. This will keep the function of integrated stop plate.

2. the vertical head room is not enough for +90 deg zenith shots for some lenses. Right! but a "zenith" shot with smaller tilt angle is just fine. Lots of people do not take +90 deg zenith shot. Well, you can insist taking a perfect +90 deg zenith shot.
Solution: we will have a nadir adapter very soon that will increase the head room by 30mm. I have checked my database. It should be fine for most lenses that one may want to use for spherical panos. If not enough, I can make a taller one. Nadir adapter proves to be a very helpful accessory. So it is designed to be part of the system. And it works much better than the one on NN3/5. The vertical rail is designed to work for super tele lenses >400mm fl, it is kept short to increase stability and reduce bulk.

Are there other flaws that worth my recall of M1? You will win a demo unit by naming any flaw that I fail to consider during the past few years. :-)

Any design has its pros and cons. The design I choose has greatest versatility and expandability.

Nick

You say that your shortest arm is 160mm
Even with that one you will get the arm in the image when using Sigma 8mm on fullframe and with all shaved lenses.

This means that you can not do 3 around. And that is with the shortest arm.
I made a mockup for 160mm arm using the Tokina on the 5D.
Tokina has a setting of 97mm so it will show much less than all the other lenses.

http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/nodalninja/NNultimate-designflaws1.jpg
The knob at the bottom corner will also be a problem for those who for some reasons want to use it with the arm to the left.

Here is the Nikkor 10.5mm with same arm length.
http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/nodalninja/NNultimate-designflaws2.jpg

As far as I can see the max height with the versions you now have is 15cm over the bottom rail.
One of them has only 14cm and because of the knob at the end you can not even shoot a 90 degree zenith with the Tokina.
http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/nodalninja/NNultimate-designflaws3.jpg

Much worse if you want to use the very good Nikkor 14-24mm on a D700 you will need the 200mm rail as it needs 134mm.
I have no problems with that on the NN5 but unless you have a vertical arm with minimum 18 cm height you can not shoot 90 degrees, actually after my tests it may be that 76 is the max at least on the versions with 15cm height.

And if you at the same time wants to use a 15-16mm fullframe fisheye you will need also a shorter arm for that as it appears in the image.

There are several lenses also for the Canon with settings from 118 - 140mm.

Michel has just published an article for using the 14mm with 6 around and 2 zenith.
This needs you to shoot the 2 zenith at 0 and 90 degrees.
Here is what happens if you can not shoot at 90.
http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/nodalninja/zenith-at-90.jpg

My 12-24mm has the same options and you also have the new Sigma 8-16mm for APS. From the images I will guess that it needs around 100-105mm so you can not shoot zenith on any of the versions you have now. The new Canon 8-15mm will probably be the same.

When I buy a panohead at this price, ( the cheapest one is almost the same as the Adjuste and is not cheap) I want to be able to use it for all options without the need of different extra arms or ringmounts for some of my lenses.

And then we have the options for the clickstops on the spherical arm. 7.5mm is only a 135mm on an APS., and the RD16 rotator has clicks for doing up to 180mm.
There are also many lenses where I need to set the settings more precise. For my 15mm I need it at -10 to get full coverage down. This is important for shooting in very narrow areas like between the benches in churches . Even if I can shoot very precise Nadirs by my method it is difficult under this conditions and you need to get as small nadir hole as possible.

The fact that you can not disable the click stops and just slide it with exact tension is enough for me to skip this head.
I need that to shoot multirow from hights above my reach.

And at last you done the same error as almost all others with the scale for the spherical arm. A scale like this should always be white with black numbers.
White on Black is unreadable even in normal room light,

White can be set even in the darkest environments.
http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/nodalninja/scaleindark.jpg

At last the lack of centre point for the rotator is very annoying.

I do not understand why you make all these different options.

1 single panohead with a height of 18-20 cm and with a 200mm arm that is adjustable in both ends would be perfect for all lenses
Weight will not be much different. Maybe it ads 50gr to the smallest version.

And production will be much cheaper and people will not need to try figure out what to buy and then discover that it can not be used when they change camera or lens.

During the last 5-6 years I got many mails from people who have either bought or wants to buy the RealRight stuff
I have usually warned them and sent them to NodalNinja but now you have just copied their bad design.

Hans

DemonDuck
02-23-2011, 03:01 PM
It seems that I need to find a time machine to take me back to the beginning 8 years ago. I need to re-read all my notes, web pages, emails etc to redefine my "Ultimate" concept. I have run all the wrong way in the past years!
Please tell me where I can have a class on pano head design. :helpsmilie:

Nick

Ps finally, I got an ingenious idea. I will skip M1 and M2 and go back to M0, which should be the truely ultimate pano head to develop.
http://www.philohome.com/tripod/shooting.htm

We only tell you our ideas because we like you and owe you a lot for making panoramic photography easier and more accessible to the average person.

Bill Bailey
02-23-2011, 03:24 PM
We only tell you our ideas because we like you and owe you a lot for making panoramic photography easier and more accessible to the average person.

Customer input is invaluable for product refinement and success. I don't know of any other company that has adpoted so many changes based off continued input from end users. Keep the suggestions coming :-)

Bill

DennisS
02-23-2011, 04:14 PM
One potentially disastified customer (who does not actually have the product in his hans) does not a reputation make.

You cannot please 100% of the people 100% of the time. If you try, you will not please anybody.

Keep doing what you are doing.

"Don't let the turkeys get you down".
http://www.zazzle.com/dont_let_the_turkeys_get_u_down_bumper_sticker-128931208751865746

nick fan
02-23-2011, 05:20 PM
We only tell you our ideas because we like you and owe you a lot for making panoramic photography easier and more accessible to the average person.

Over the years, I have heard so many requests, suggestions and design ideas. Honestly speaking, there are just a few ways to make a pano head. There is hardly any design that has not been suggested or considered.

There is one thing that I will never handle to others, that is the judgment of what is great.

Product development is a business adventure, a gamble using real money from my pockets. Really, I don't like people to tell me what to bet.

The Modular Series is a system for high end photographers. Like other Arca Swiss compatible system, its value lies in its versatility and multifunction. One can use it in so many ways only limited by one's creativity. Panoramic photography is just part of its function.

There are many great systems out there. What is special for our system is that it is optimized for panoramic photographers, created by a company that specialized in pano head design and manufacturing. There will a few models of pano heads all sharing the same (some of) rails or rotators. It has taken me many years to finalize the design because it has a huge number of components which need to be compatible with future models.


Nick

nick fan
02-23-2011, 06:51 PM
You say that your shortest arm is 160mm
Even with that one you will get the arm in the image when using Sigma 8mm on fullframe and with all shaved lenses.

This means that you can not do 3 around. And that is with the shortest arm.
I am afraid the majority do not take 3 shots around.
As I said, you only need to add one more QR clamp to solve the issue completely. Mind you the QR clamp is 55mm long. It will cause a bigger rotator footprint than NN3/5.




The knob at the bottom corner will also be a problem for those who for some reasons want to use it with the arm to the left.

The QR for vertical rail is for set up purpose. It is not used for NPP adjustment. I can't understand why it is a problem.




As far as I can see the max height with the versions you now have is 15cm over the bottom rail.
One of them has only 14cm and because of the knob at the end you can not even shoot a 90 degree zenith with the Tokina.

Much worse if you want to use the very good Nikkor 14-24mm on a D700 you will need the 200mm rail as it needs 134mm.
I have no problems with that on the NN5 but unless you have a vertical arm with minimum 18 cm height you can not shoot 90 degrees, actually after my tests it may be that 76 is the max at least on the versions with 15cm height.

A Nadir Adapter will solve the issue completely. Lots of customers will find it a godsend to use. It will be a unique selling point in our system.




When I buy a panohead at this price, ( the cheapest one is almost the same as the Adjuste and is not cheap) I want to be able to use it for all options without the need of different extra arms or ringmounts for some of my lenses.
Our M series is a versatile photographic support system that serves as a pano head. The Adjuste is a pano head only. We have 7.5 deg upper rotator with smaller footprint. Complete QR system to set up/ break down quickly. Adjust NPP and use multiple lenses and focal lengths on the fly with possibility of integrated rail stops to pre-set multiple NPPs.




And then we have the options for the click-stops on the spherical arm. 7.5mm is only a 135mm on an APS., and the RD16 rotator has clicks for doing up to 180mm.
Sounds a big issue to leave the 3.75deg click stop alone for you? It can still be used for ObjectVR and 3D panos where much denser interval is needed to reduce parallax in stitching each stereo pair.




There are also many lenses where I need to set the settings more precise. For my 15mm I need it at -10 to get full coverage down. This is important for shooting in very narrow areas like between the benches in churches . Even if I can shoot very precise Nadirs by my method it is difficult under this conditions and you need to get as small nadir hole as possible.

How different is -10 deg compared to -7.5 and -15?




The fact that you can not disable the click stops and just slide it with exact tension is enough for me to skip this head.
I need that to shoot multirow from hights above my reach.

what is the scenario that a NN5 will do better for you here?




And at last you done the same error as almost all others with the scale for the spherical arm. A scale like this should always be white with black numbers.
White on Black is unreadable even in normal room light,

White can be set even in the darkest environments.


It is more costly to make a black scale on white. Honestly, I think an small LED is a better solution. The 7.5 deg stops have clicks. One should be easy to judge the angles from the number of clicks easily.




At last the lack of centre point for the rotator is very annoying.
what is that? for lower rotator? The extra precision will offer easier way of placing the camera at proper lower rail position.




I do not understand why you make all these different options.

1 single panohead with a height of 18-20 cm and with a 200mm arm that is adjustable in both ends would be perfect for all lenses
Weight will not be much different. Maybe it ads 50gr to the smallest version.

It has to do with features in M2 and partly a cosmetic concern. i just like this cleaner design with Nadir Adapter Add-on.




people will not need to try figure out what to buy and then discover that it can not be used when they change camera or lens.
You can always buy the largest M1L and one more QR clamp to have widest compatibility. But why do you want to speak for others regarding their choice for a favorite config?





During the last 5-6 years I got many mails from people who have either bought or wants to buy the RealRight stuff
I have usually warned them and sent them to NodalNinja but now you have just copied their bad design.

Reallyrightstuff is a very versatile system and very popular among professional photographers in general. It is less popular as a pano head due to lack of click-stop rotators or oversight of needs of spherical panoramic photographers. The rail is not a problem. They have other rails and QR clamps that will solve the issue.

I must emphasize that it is not my aim to make a product to serve 100% of customers. I want products optimized for a group (significantly big) of customers. You may not like that. But this has been the FANOTEC way for years.

Last but not least, I don't care for those who potentially dislike my products. I care for those who might like and buy my products.




Nick

hansnyberg
02-24-2011, 12:31 AM
I said:

"As far as I can see the max height with the versions you now have is 15cm over the bottom rail.
One of them has only 14cm and because of the knob at the end you can not even shoot a 90 degree zenith with the Tokina.

Much worse if you want to use the very good Nikkor 14-24mm on a D700 you will need the 200mm rail as it needs 134mm.
I have no problems with that on the NN5 but unless you have a vertical arm with minimum 18 cm height you can not shoot 90 degrees, actually after my tests it may be that 76 is the max at least on the versions with 15cm height."


And you answered:

"A Nadir Adapter will solve the issue completely. Lots of customers will find it a godsend to use. It will be a unique selling point in our system."

Really Nick what has the nadir adapter to do with the fact that you can not shoot a full 90 degree zenith.
Nick you should be a politican. Your answer exactly like they do.

Most of your other answers are the same going around the problem without solving them.

Hans

nick fan
02-24-2011, 01:04 AM
I said:

"As far as I can see the max height with the versions you now have is 15cm over the bottom rail.
One of them has only 14cm and because of the knob at the end you can not even shoot a 90 degree zenith with the Tokina.

Much worse if you want to use the very good Nikkor 14-24mm on a D700 you will need the 200mm rail as it needs 134mm.
I have no problems with that on the NN5 but unless you have a vertical arm with minimum 18 cm height you can not shoot 90 degrees, actually after my tests it may be that 76 is the max at least on the versions with 15cm height."


And you answered:

"A Nadir Adapter will solve the issue completely. Lots of customers will find it a godsend to use. It will be a unique selling point in our system."

Really Nick what has the nadir adapter to do with the fact that you can not shoot a full 90 degree zenith.
Hans, have you seen our nadir adapter for NN3/5?
http://store.nodalninja.com/product_images/e/152/N-3-5-NADIR-5__21417_zoom.jpg
Although the nadir adapter for M1 is very different in design, it has one thing in common, that is they act as spacer raising up the vertical rail. So I can change the thickness of the nadir adapter to change the vertical head room. One thing we agree is a 180mm headroom is just enough. And that can be achieved by using a nadir adapter with thickness of 30mm. Should I use 180mm head room in the first place, the vertical rail assembly will be less stable after adding the nadir adapter and far too bulky. Needless to say that the vertical rail will be less fit for people using >400mm lenses.

BTW, I am sincerely waiting for your answers to my questions.


There are also many lenses where I need to set the settings more precise. For my 15mm I need it at -10 to get full coverage down. This is important for shooting in very narrow areas like between the benches in churches . Even if I can shoot very precise Nadirs by my method it is difficult under this conditions and you need to get as small nadir hole as possible.
How different is -10 deg compared to -7.5 and -15?




The fact that you can not disable the click stops and just slide it with exact tension is enough for me to skip this head.
I need that to shoot multirow from hights above my reach.
what is the scenario that a NN5 will do better for you here?

Nick

hindenhaag
02-24-2011, 03:17 AM
Nick,

about the vertical rail height discussion: D3 NN5 without Nadir Adapter: The only nikkor lens that made problems to shoot at +90º is the 24-70mm/f2.8. Zoom settings @24 URS 147, @28 URS142, and @35 URS133 stop at the side of the lower rail.

With the Nadir Adapter even the setting @ 24 leaves 2mm between the viewfinder and the lower rail while turning the camera into the +90º position.

No problems at all with 14-24.

I myself, besides a lot of other customers will use the NN nadir adapter instead of standing in the street like a ballet dancer to prevent my tripod from moving away or falling down. Plus the time to reset the tripod legs and the upper rail to shoot a Nadir in a much more difficult way.

Because the Nadir Adapter adds height to the vertical rail, it has to be considered in the overall design. Simple as that.

Regards,
Heinz

nick fan
02-24-2011, 06:21 AM
Nick,

about the vertical rail height discussion: D3 NN5 without Nadir Adapter: The only nikkor lens that made problems to shoot at +90º is the 24-70mm/f2.8. Zoom settings @24 URS 147, @28 URS142, and @35 URS133 stop at the side of the lower rail.

With the Nadir Adapter even the setting @ 24 leaves 2mm between the viewfinder and the lower rail while turning the camera into the +90º position.

No problems at all with 14-24.

I myself, besides a lot of other customers will use the NN nadir adapter instead of standing in the street like a ballet dancer to prevent my tripod from moving away or falling down. Plus the time to reset the tripod legs and the upper rail to shoot a Nadir in a much more difficult way.

Because the Nadir Adapter adds height to the vertical rail, it has to be considered in the overall design. Simple as that.

Regards,
Heinz

Hi Heinz,

Thanks a lot for the data. It is very helpful. I think I will leave out this beast for the regular nadir adapter and only make a few extra tall ones for those who decide to use this huge and heavy lens for spherical panos.
The Modular Series is CNC machined one by one. We have more flexibility for tailor-made accessories.

Nick

hindenhaag
02-24-2011, 07:29 AM
Hi Nick,

I suppose this would be the best solution for 24-70. 14-24 is the more favorite one. But in case you need to shot at 40mm, 24-70 is the lens for FX bodies.

Heinz

wakazo
03-07-2011, 03:02 AM
Hi.
I have a Manfrotto 300N rotator.
So, I want to buy a No Rotator Set.
But , "300N" have 3/8 Male Screw.
Can fit to clamp? or need some adapter?

Please show me Bottom Face of the clamp.
and Some Advice Please ,thanks from Ninja Country.

nick fan
03-07-2011, 05:20 AM
Hi.
I have a Manfrotto 300N rotator.
So, I want to buy a No Rotator Set.
But , "300N" have 3/8 Male Screw.
Can fit to clamp? or need some adapter?


Please show me Bottom Face of the clamp.
and Some Advice Please ,thanks from Ninja Country.

The clamp has 3/8" socket at the center. It will work for your 300N.

Nick

hindenhaag
03-07-2011, 05:34 AM
Hi and welcome to the forum.

RD8 RD16 rotators have a 6mm socket on top. So to connect NN5 lower rail to the rotator, you use a 6mm screw. These rotators are compatible with the modular system. So I suppose the modular lower rail clamp is fixed with a 6mm screw.

You need a 3/8" socket. I suppose you need a self made adapter. But it is to early to give definite advice from forum side to try to add other branches rotators to NN Modular System. There is no place in N300 to add NN anti rotations screws as well. I just checked this for you.

Heinz

Ok, thx Nick. You answered in between. Good to know.

BTW: shoot your panos turning to the right as we normally do. Otherwise you might loosen your clamp from the rotator without anti rotation screws.

nick fan
03-11-2011, 09:11 AM
Here is our Nadir Adapter for the Modular System. It is actually a rotator with full bearing loaded. It added 35mm to the vertical head room, making zenith/ nadir shot with large lens such as Nikon 14-24mm F2.8 a breeze.
166
167
upper rotator can be installed at either side vertical rail, for max horizontal adjustment or nadir clearance.
168

Here is a set-up for dual camera stereo giga-pixel panoramas. I will make longer rails so that lenses/cameras can be facing each other (close together). This will then work for indoor stereo panoramas as well.
165


Nick

Bill Bailey
03-11-2011, 09:28 AM
Here is a set-up for dual camera stereo giga-pixel panoramas. I will make longer rails so that lenses/cameras can be facing each other (close together). This will then work for indoor stereo panoramas as well.

Seems you would get to much parallax in each image with dual camera setup defeating purpose of pano head. For stereo panos I believe all you need to do is move rig to the side 6-12 inches and shoot second pano. I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time).
Bill

nick fan
03-11-2011, 09:38 AM
Seems you would get to much parallax in each image with dual camera setup defeating purpose of pano head. For stereo panos I believe all you need to do is move rig to the side 6-12 inches and shoot second pano. I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time).
Bill

parallax is vital for stereo effect. the farther the scene, the larger separation of cameras needed. To reduce stitching errors, more images can be used to reduce parallax in adjacent images. Dual camera (synchronized) is needed for images with moving parts. It also cuts time of images taking by help, important for giga-pixel panos in changing light.



Nick

zerohui0_0
03-23-2011, 10:56 AM
hi NICK,

u said
Larger model is supposed to support larger cameras and lenses. Its rails must be stronger (and thus heavier) as well. The smaller unit is slighter larger and stronger than NN3II. It is recommended for DSLRS without battery grip and most wide angle lenses. The larger Unit is larger and stronger than NN5 and will support most cameras and lenses.


actually, originally, I would like to buy a NN5+RD16, it costs $449.95, but I found that is discontinued and the New pro one is M1L+RD16, waa!! it cost $760,much much more and it is not Inexpensive now, which is $310 expensiver than the previous model!!

and I think it's very difficult for me to get the information how valuable is the New model, no catalogue, no video, no table of Spec. .. what are improved?? I dont sure, I just can get ONE point only from reading 5 pages of discussion in the forum : M1 is stronger than NN5. But how strong is it? I dont know, why/how can it stronger than the previous model? What design is changed? I dont know. I know when there is no M1 serious, your webpage said NN5 can handle medium and large format BIGbig camers, that's enough for me already, M1 really over my budget, however, if it is really valuable, I 'll buy it.

you said M1S stronger than NN3, M1L stronger than NN5, how about M1S compare with NN5 ??
M1S+RD16=460+~200=~660, again, 660>>449.95 very much, to create a QTVR, NN5 is enough, I really dont know what are the "dreams come true" in M series, please kindly let me know.

moreover, I would like to know, there is a camera plate design in M series , is there any need for camera plate at NN5 series? it seems not, right? I dont sure, the advantages for using camera plate is for QUICK RELEASE?? so, can camera quick release from NN5 ?

Is there any picture for the M1's camera plate? I would like to take a look at the general one and the D1/2/3 one, see what's differences between them.

another question, I really cannot found any retailer at HongKong which sell Nodal Ninja, can you tell me? Or, is it possible that we meet each other and I give cash money to you?

THANKS a lot,
if it is possible, I hope you can give me a phone call and talk in Cantonese.

MRHUI

nick fan
03-24-2011, 02:38 PM
actually, originally, I would like to buy a NN5+RD16, it costs $449.95, but I found that is discontinued and the New pro one is M1L+RD16, waa!! it cost $760,much much more and it is not Inexpensive now, which is $310 expensiver than the previous model!!

We are releasing a new affordable model soon, which will support lens up to 100mm eq. focal length. It is built on top of the success of NN5 and the new M1 upper rotator design. Wait for announcement coming soon.



and I think it's very difficult for me to get the information how valuable is the New model, no catalogue, no video, no table of Spec. .. what are improved?? I dont sure, I just can get ONE point only from reading 5 pages of discussion in the forum : M1 is stronger than NN5. But how strong is it? I dont know, why/how can it stronger than the previous model? What design is changed? I dont know. I know when there is no M1 serious, your webpage said NN5 can handle medium and large format BIGbig camers, that's enough for me already, M1 really over my budget, however, if it is really valuable, I 'll buy it.
M1 is completely CNC machined from premium quality Aluminum alloy and anodized. It has more durable and attractive finishing. It is Arca Swiss compatible. It is multi-functional. The rails can serves as nodal slide for panos, macro slide for macros, lens plate to support lens with lens ring. It is stronger. I need to do more test to give an exact rating. it is modular in design. Components will work for future upgrades. It has precise 7.5 deg stops at the upper rotator, supporting up to 200mm eq. focal length.



you said M1S stronger than NN3, M1L stronger than NN5, how about M1S compare with NN5 ??
M1S will supports up to 1.5kg without battery grip.




M1S+RD16=460+~200=~660, again, 660>>449.95 very much, to create a QTVR, NN5 is enough, I really dont know what are the "dreams come true" in M series, please kindly let me know.

We are releasing the first batch as pre-production units with 25% discounts on components other than the RD8/16. Depending on the pre-order status, you may still get a pre-production unit at great price.



moreover, I would like to know, there is a camera plate design in M series , is there any need for camera plate at NN5 series? it seems not, right? I dont sure, the advantages for using camera plate is for QUICK RELEASE?? so, can camera quick release from NN5 ?

Is there any picture for the M1's camera plate? I would like to take a look at the general one and the D1/2/3 one, see what's differences between them.
A D1/2/3 series (or cameras with battery grip) camera plate will be similar to this one
http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=166&d=1299862917
We are developing camera specific plates and will offer free swap for the universal plate when available.


another question, I really cannot found any retailer at HongKong which sell Nodal Ninja, can you tell me? Or, is it possible that we meet each other and I give cash money to you?

THANKS a lot,
if it is possible, I hope you can give me a phone call and talk in Cantonese.

MRHUI

lets chat in PM.

nick

zerohui0_0
03-24-2011, 11:40 PM
hi NICK,


thanks for ur reply.


I found that "There are no products in this category" in Estore page of Ultimate M Series, is it out of stock now? seems M1series are very attractive!


for the D1/2/3 series (or cameras with battery grip) camera plate u show in that link, is it same as the one in your Estore Camera Mounting Plate CP2 ??
http://store.nodalninja.com/products/Camera-Mounting-Plate-CP2.html
Or the one you show is newly invented? I think we better wait for the developing on camera specific plates


Another point about the plate I want to ask, I see the surface between the plate and camera is in brown, I think it is made with "Water Insect" or "Taxus", I dont sure the exact name in english. I think the brown one is not firmed comparing with the black soft plastic, usually I found that picture show for the Head in Manfrotto is brown but the real product we buy from the shops are the black surface, especially exist in the old-designed head, they just update the product but not the picture of product. I would like to ensure that because I found that the products show in Youtube is made by the brown material. Please let me know.


>>> M1S will supports up to 1.5kg without battery grip.
that means M1S is weaker than NN5, but M1s cost Much higher than NN5 .. not so good.


I am consider waiting for the new affordable head or buy the NN5 factory irregulars (cosmetic).
Can you give me an advice? NN5 factory irregulars (cosmetic) is really affordable with DISCOUNT !! But one point is, I dont really get the meaning for "factory irregulars & cosmetic" I know the meaning of these word individually, but I dont know what's the meaning applied to the camera head.
Is it = Used? or it is new but it has been putted on the display in the shops and tried by customers? or it has some quality problems when it produced in the factory??


Moreover, where can I find Nodal Ninja product in HK?


Thanks again.

MRHUI

zerohui0_0
03-25-2011, 10:49 PM
hi Nick,

again, it's me, sorry for so many QUESTIONs, because I cannot get the info. I want from the website and I have to ask from you.


Cool, I just know there is a NN 4 !! i have some que about it, may I ask from you?


How is the support of NN4 ? M1s support small/without grip camera, M1s support large/with grip cameras, NN5 support large cameras, how about NN4 ? the number 4 is smaller than 5, it seems weaker than 5, but NN4 has 5' and M1series have 7.5' adjustment at upper rotater, NN4 seems higher class than M1 series, although I know M1series support 200mm but NN4 support 100mm only, in here, I think it's a little contradiction.

why M1series do not have the 5' upper rotator?


I would like to ask, do NN4 provide the camera plate at the same time? it didnt mention in the website, I found several items are included but not the plate,so I wonder it.

Website said it Included:
10 degree /12 degree reversible detent ring
Rotator Lock Knob
Detent Plunger Knob
NN5 Mounting Knob (with logo)
3/8-1/4 threaded screw adapter



The picture show in the NN4, is the plate CP2 ?



one more, does NN4 fit the nadir adapter which support NN3 & NN5?


NN4 seems a new system, but I dont know why it still uses the name NN but not Ultimate.

finally, is there any new Qtvr head will announce soon ?


Thanks

mrhui

nick fan
03-26-2011, 09:13 AM
hi Nick,

again, it's me, sorry for so many QUESTIONs, because I cannot get the info. I want from the website and I have to ask from you.


Cool, I just know there is a NN 4 !! i have some que about it, may I ask from you?


How is the support of NN4 ? M1s support small/without grip camera, M1s support large/with grip cameras, NN5 support large cameras, how about NN4 ? the number 4 is smaller than 5, it seems weaker than 5, but NN4 has 5' and M1series have 7.5' adjustment at upper rotater, NN4 seems higher class than M1 series, although I know M1series support 200mm but NN4 support 100mm only, in here, I think it's a little contradiction.

why M1series do not have the 5' upper rotator?


I would like to ask, do NN4 provide the camera plate at the same time? it didnt mention in the website, I found several items are included but not the plate,so I wonder it.

Website said it Included:
10 degree /12 degree reversible detent ring
Rotator Lock Knob
Detent Plunger Knob
NN5 Mounting Knob (with logo)
3/8-1/4 threaded screw adapter



The picture show in the NN4, is the plate CP2 ?



one more, does NN4 fit the nadir adapter which support NN3 & NN5?


NN4 seems a new system, but I dont know why it still uses the name NN but not Ultimate.

finally, is there any new Qtvr head will announce soon ?


Thanks

mrhui

Nodal Ninja is our affordable line. Their rails are made by die casting with relatively "high" volume of production. They are painted.
Nodal Ninja Ultimate is our luxury line. All componets are CNC machined one by one from premium quality aluminum alloy and anodized. they have higher precision, higher quality of standard and longer durability.

NN4 will be our new flashship in the affordable line. It is based on NN5 with new upper rotator design from Ultimate M1. It has the same load rating as NN5. In fact the rails are almost the same as NN5. Just that the upper rail and vertical rail is shortened by 10 and 15mm respectively. experience tells me that this the right size for most lenses up to 100mm. So NN4 is slightly more compact and lighter than NN5. And it will only work for lens up to 100mm eq fl (NN5 works for longer fl when the positive stop is disengaged). That is why its is NN4 and not NN6. :-)
if 100mm eq fl limit is ok with you, NN4 is the right choice. all NN5 accessories work for NN4.


Nick

PM me if you want to buy directly from me. We don't have reseller in HK.

nick fan
03-26-2011, 09:53 AM
I found that "There are no products in this category" in Estore page of Ultimate M Series, is it out of stock now? seems M1series are very attractive!

we decide to sell the first batch as pre-production units with great discount. they will be relisted with new prices.



for the D1/2/3 series (or cameras with battery grip) camera plate u show in that link, is it same as the one in your Estore Camera Mounting Plate CP2 ??
http://store.nodalninja.com/products/Camera-Mounting-Plate-CP2.html
Or the one you show is newly invented? I think we better wait for the developing on camera specific plates


No. It is new plate made to match the contour of most Canon battery grips. More dedicated plates will be developped soon. We will offer free swap for the dedicated plates when they are available.



Another point about the plate I want to ask, I see the surface between the plate and camera is in brown, I think it is made with "Water Insect" or "Taxus", I dont sure the exact name in english. I think the brown one is not firmed comparing with the black soft plastic, usually I found that picture show for the Head in Manfrotto is brown but the real product we buy from the shops are the black surface, especially exist in the old-designed head, they just update the product but not the picture of product. I would like to ensure that because I found that the products show in Youtube is made by the brown material. Please let me know.

the brown material is "rubberized cork sheet" used as gasket material. It has good grip and retain it shape well. It is less sticky than rubber. Its cost is many times of high quality rubber sheet.


I am consider waiting for the new affordable head or buy the NN5 factory irregulars (cosmetic).
Can you give me an advice? NN5 factory irregulars (cosmetic) is really affordable with DISCOUNT !! But one point is, I dont really get the meaning for "factory irregulars & cosmetic" I know the meaning of these word individually, but I dont know what's the meaning applied to the camera head.
Is it = Used? or it is new but it has been putted on the display in the shops and tried by customers? or it has some quality problems when it produced in the factory??


Factory irregular are new products with full warranty.
they may have one or more cosmetic defects including
*dust particle in painting
*micro pores in casting surface
*small scratches.

Nick

bbc597
03-29-2011, 05:45 PM
I received this email, and I'm not clear; will the M1-L not have a rotator?

Dear Customer,

We are very sorry for the delay in shipping your order.
Unfortunately, there have been some last minute production changes we
are addressing.

Pre-production M1 models, without the lower rotator, are available at
a 25% discount and have an estimated shipping date of April 12th. If
you decide to purchase a pre-production M1 model, you are eligible to
upgrade to the final M1 model when they are available. We will accept
the pre-production model and send you the final M1 model for the
difference in price (plus shipping).

Example:
Pre-Production M1-L Model (no rotator): $419.95
Final M1-L Model (no rotator): $575
Upgrade to Final M1-L from Pre-Production M1-L for $155 (plus shipping)

nick fan
03-29-2011, 07:24 PM
I received this email, and I'm not clear; will the M1-L not have a rotator?

Dear Customer,

We are very sorry for the delay in shipping your order.
Unfortunately, there have been some last minute production changes we
are addressing.

Pre-production M1 models, without the lower rotator, are available at
a 25% discount and have an estimated shipping date of April 12th. If
you decide to purchase a pre-production M1 model, you are eligible to
upgrade to the final M1 model when they are available. We will accept
the pre-production model and send you the final M1 model for the
difference in price (plus shipping).

Example:
Pre-Production M1-L Model (no rotator): $419.95
Final M1-L Model (no rotator): $575
Upgrade to Final M1-L from Pre-Production M1-L for $155 (plus shipping)

Some of our customers have RD8/16/3L rotators already. RD8/16/3L are our regular products and do not have special discount.
So if you have a RD8/16/3L, you just buy the M1 without lower rotator. If you don't, just add one to the shopping cart.

Nick

bbc597
03-29-2011, 07:44 PM
I've had a pre-order for the M1-L as is was described in the first post on 2-09-2011 with the rotator. It was to be shipped first part of March, then March 29th, then I get this confusing email.

When will my order for the M1-L with the rotator be shipped?

nick fan
03-29-2011, 08:29 PM
I've had a pre-order for the M1-L as is was described in the first post on 2-09-2011 with the rotator. It was to be shipped first part of March, then March 29th, then I get this confusing email.

When will my order for the M1-L with the rotator be shipped?

Contact your reseller, some of them have the M1 on the way. Your reseller will either offer you full refund if you decide to cancel the order, or partial refund if you decide to take the pre-production offer.

Nick

hindenhaag
03-29-2011, 08:47 PM
Having ordered via NN online store, you may send an email to shipping@nodalninja and ask Rob about it or use the "chat" being online. You find it on the top left side and bottom of the home page or at the top right side on the store site.

Heinz

Btw: I know it is a pity and I am also one of the guys who would like the parts to "fly in" the moment I have placed my order. Being an "early bird" delay might happen. And I have to try hard to keep my hands off the keyboard once having chosen for "normal deliver" for example $104.00 and not to change it to express delivery for around $300 to send it to EU.

Canon 8-15mm lens is delayed several times and it is May right now. And not because of earthquake.

bbc597
03-29-2011, 08:59 PM
I have contacted them, and I'm not clear on what is on the way or otherwise. I have posted the email of what my reseller is saying.

I do not want to cancel my order, nor do I want to take the "pre-production offer."

Can you tell me when the M1-L with the rotator as described, and that I have paid for, will be shipped?

nick fan
03-29-2011, 11:13 PM
I have contacted them, and I'm not clear on what is on the way or otherwise. I have posted the email of what my reseller is saying.

I do not want to cancel my order, nor do I want to take the "pre-production offer."

Can you tell me when the M1-L with the rotator as described, and that I have paid for, will be shipped?

I hope to release the final version in May/ June. I really want to get the best finishing for the Ultimate M1. If you need a pano head, you can get the pre-production which is functionally the same. You can replace it with the final one by paying the difference in price only. Nothing to lose.

Nick

bbc597
03-30-2011, 05:35 AM
Nothing to lose? How about paying more if I was to take the "pre-production offer" and then replace it with the final one by paying the difference in price only. (Plus don't forget shipping) Even if I don't take pre-production, M1-L + rotator purchased separately costs more than what I paid., not to mention the "free" camera plate for placing a pre-order.

I'm also not happy that I paid for something, meaning you have had my money to do with what you want, and all I get is a refund? I was in a sense loaning you money and not getting anything in return, not even interest on the money. (Not to mention the product)

hindenhaag
03-30-2011, 07:14 AM
Sorry to say,

I believe you but this sounds a little bit rare to me. I never ever had to pay in advance ordering at Nodal Ninja without getting a proof for delivery the day my money was at NN bank account. When something went wrong, the money was booked back to me within one day.

May I ask you to tell us where you ordered to get basic information to set you on the right road to ask for help and to try to get rid of frustration?

Cheers,
Heinz

nick fan
03-30-2011, 09:42 AM
Nothing to lose? How about paying more if I was to take the "pre-production offer" and then replace it with the final one by paying the difference in price only. (Plus don't forget shipping) Even if I don't take pre-production, M1-L + rotator purchased separately costs more than what I paid., not to mention the "free" camera plate for placing a pre-order.

I'm also not happy that I paid for something, meaning you have had my money to do with what you want, and all I get is a refund? I was in a sense loaning you money and not getting anything in return, not even interest on the money. (Not to mention the product)

Sorry to disappoint you. You can ask for a full refund now and keep you in the waiting list for full production unit. You can STILL enjoy the intro offer.
if you feel cheated and want to opt out, I will gladly pay you interest. what rate you are asking for?

I want to give the best benefits to my customers, selling the first batch as pre-production with great discount and offer them a simple upgrade option. I could have sold the first batch as is and just improve it in later batches. Much simpler for me and it will save me lots of expenses. But I feel that my supportive customers deserve more. Many potential customers for M1 are prior customers who can enjoy $50-100 extra discount. contact me offline by PM or email (nick <at> fanotec. com), I will work out the best solution for you.



Nick

bbc597
03-30-2011, 03:21 PM
Nick,

I'm glad you understand... no interest $ are wanted, my first pano head is all I want.

email to you is on the way, thanks.

zerohui0_0
03-30-2011, 09:41 PM
hi NICK, i just sent a QUE email to (nick <at> fanotec. com, hope u can check it +回覆我啦, 謝謝

Cameleer
04-06-2011, 09:55 AM
[moderator deleted this paragraph - any questions or concerns with Amazon orders MUST go through the Amazon system per the conditions set forth by Amazon. The Amazon system runs independent of our NN store. ]

I also ordered a Ultimate M1-L NO ROTATOR on Feb 19th and have not received a courtesy email explaining that it has been delayed. I sent an email asking why only Per-Production Ultimate M1-L where being shown for sale and never got an answer back. A couple of days later after searching the forums I did find the answer, and now I see shipping could be around May/ June.

I will be going to Saudi Arabia shooting panos in museums and historical places at the end of this month and will only have April 13 to 20th to get things ready and learn any new equipment that I was hoping to get. So these delays are really hearting me.

Roger Berry

Bill Bailey
04-06-2011, 11:06 AM
[moderator deleted this paragraph - any questions or concerns with Amazon orders MUST go through the Amazon system per the conditions set forth by Amazon. The Amazon system runs independent of our NN store. ]

I also ordered a Ultimate M1-L NO ROTATOR on Feb 19th and have not received a courtesy email explaining that it has been delayed. I sent an email asking why only Per-Production Ultimate M1-L where being shown for sale and never got an answer back. A couple of days later after searching the forums I did find the answer, and now I see shipping could be around May/ June.

I will be going to Saudi Arabia shooting panos in museums and historical places at the end of this month and will only have April 13 to 20th to get things ready and learn any new equipment that I was hoping to get. So these delays are really hearting me.

Roger Berry
Hi Roger - sorry about the mod edit - but if you do go through the Amazon system I'm sure we can help you.

Don't know why you didn't get a reply to your inquiry - my apologies for that. We did experience extended delays for M1L's so due to slight last minute design tweaks we had to delist the M1L's and replace with the M1L-PP's (pre production). The photos on the pp listing are of actual product. Those that we do not hear back, and we will make added attempts at contact, will be automatically canceled and refunded. We thought we would offer the customer the choice pp model and refund of difference. The pp models are excellent value with discounts being offer. And if you decided to exchange for production model once out you would only have to pat the difference in price. If you opted to keep the order alive for M1L-pp in addition to slight refund you will also get a free EZ-Leveler worth $109. Heads up on the fact that these PP's uints do require assembly but come with an installation guide.

So do respond to your email or send Rob an email directly (shipping at nodalninja dot com) that you would like the PP with partial refund and include free EZ-Leveler or if you prefer to cancel the order all together. We need to hear back ASAP - we have very few of the M1-PP's and one is reserved for you. We can also keep your order as is and give you loaner NN5x (slightly used) to use free of charge if you prefere to put it all on hold. We'll even pay shipping to return.

Cameleer
04-06-2011, 11:33 AM
Hi Bill, I already own a NN5, can I get a M1L-pp loaner within 7 days, if not I will just have to use my NN5 for this next trip overseas.
Normally I just us my pole to shoot panos, but this time I may need to do some HDR shots and that's what I'm trying to get ready for.

About the other problem, looking around I found that Northbaypanos had two Nadir Adapters for Nodal Ninja 3 and Nodal Ninja 5 series for sale on eBay, so I bought one and it will get here on time. Looks like I will be ending up with 2 of them, one from eBay and one arriving too late from other place.

Roger Berry

Bill Bailey
04-06-2011, 11:47 AM
Hi Bill, I already own a NN5, can I get a M1L-pp loaner within 7 days, if not I will just have to use my NN5 for this next trip overseas.
Normally I just us my pole to shoot panos, but this time I may need to do some HDR shots and that's what I'm trying to get ready for.

About the other problem, looking around I found that Northbaypanos had two Nadir Adapters for Nodal Ninja 3 and Nodal Ninja 5 series for sale on eBay, so I bought one and it will get here on time. Looks like I will be ending up with 2 of them, one from eBay and one arriving too late from other place.

Roger Berry
Hi Roger, We can't give you a PP loaner but we can ship yours out tomorrow and give you express ship upgrade. Once the production models arrive simply exchange for difference in price. There is absolutely no difference in functionality whatsoever and it is my belief most, if any, will not opt for exchange.

On the Northbaypanos Nadir adapter I'm glad you were able to get them - just return it to Dennis he'll issue you the refund. It may have been his ebay listing as well.

If in doubt or you have any questions please give us a call in the am (7am-noon Phoenix time) 480-659-9899 and we'll help sort you out. We're closed today and I'm just doing a bit of work here from home.
thx
Bill

Cameleer
04-06-2011, 01:42 PM
Hi Bill thank you for your help.
Here is what's on my wish list to receive by April 14th or 15th.
1 - Ultimate M1-L PP with partial refund.
1 - Nadir Adapter for the Ultimate M1-L Modular System
1 - Canon 5D-2 camera plate.
1 - R-D8

Do you have all of these items yet?

Roger Berry

Bill Bailey
04-06-2011, 02:09 PM
Hi Bill thank you for your help.
Here is what's on my wish list to receive by April 14th or 15th.
1 - Ultimate M1-L PP with partial refund.
1 - Nadir Adapter for the Ultimate M1-L Modular System
1 - Canon 5D-2 camera plate.
1 - R-D8

Do you have all of these items yet?

Roger Berry

* M1-L PP has been shipping to early buyers - you are one of them - assembly required of all pieces (partial reason for the heavy discount).
http://nodalninja.com/Manuals/M1L_Installation_QRG.pdf Once the invoice is adjusted and refund issued you will receive new amended invoice.

* A Nadir Adapter for M1 series is still in development with no date for release yet.

* The camera plate will be universal but we offer free upgrade (another freebie :-) to camera specific plate custom-made for your camera when available - could be months out.

* We have RD8 in stock.

thx
Bill

hindenhaag
04-07-2011, 12:48 PM
Hi Bill,

Excellent manual. Just a short question: are the M3 anti twist screws included in the set? Specially for those who order a normal M1 without rotator in the future? Otherwise there should be a hint to take off these screws from the old NN5/3 with RD4/RD8/RD16 lower rail to fix it to the clamp.

Plus, M-1x will be delivered with a universal camera plate?

Just to make things clear for NN Fans!

Cheers,
Heinz

bbc597
04-09-2011, 06:00 PM
we will never advertise/ guarantee this feature. But in your hand, I am sure it can.


I think the marking on the clamp can be used as a reference. In fact using a ruler to measure the camera height and then calculated the NPP value can be an easier approach. This is possible due to much higher precision in the design and manufacturing of the Ultimate series. I will make some tools for easily determination of NPP too.
My aim is to build a certified NPP database for as many cameras / lenses as possible. Then I will make integrated rail stops for sales. Some good excuse to buy lots of gear for myself. Using the M1 will never be as easy before. More details to follow.

Nick

Nick,

Can you give more info how to "In fact using a ruler to measure the camera height and then calculated the NPP value can be an easier approach."?

Thanks...

hindenhaag
04-09-2011, 10:57 PM
Hi,

It's around 8am here and it's a sunday morning. Nick is very busy, even on a sunday I suppose. We are waiting for our products.:rockon::rockon: OK if I step into it?

http://homepage.mac.com/hindenhaag/filechute/LRS-M1.tif

Have a look to Wiki database as well to know what I am talking about:

http://wiki.panotools.org/Entrance_Pupil_Database

Measure H of your camera. Then measure O = Offset of M1 camera bottom to vertical rail. This means, whatever camera plate you use, fix it and measure. H + O will give you LRS. C= center mark of lower rail clamp. Fix LRS to C.

Then use Smooth's tutorial to correct "System Faults" of whole System - Sensor "Miss"_placement inside camera body for example - to find your definite LRS = Lower rail setting for your camera body.

http://www.easypano.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=4162

I always use this as add on, no matter on how you found your LRS in first case: laser placed position of lens axis to center of rotator, -90° center rotator shot, measurements as I mentioned.

Smooth's "hacksaw method" is the golden goal: saw teeth cutting to the left, move to the left by 1mm, cutting to the right, move to the right by 1mm. Final LRS will show change of cutting direction of teeth moving 1mm to right and left of your definite LRS.

Sucess and enjoy the new equipment.

Feel free to ask.

Regards,
Heinz

BTW: pic shows the M1-Nadir Adapter below vertical rail which will be available later this year to offer the "plug and play version" of nadir shots similar NN3/NN4/NN5 Nadir adaptor. No matter of long exposures or bracketing shots, this is "Nadir to Go"

Plus, I am not a "Ballet Dancer" to save my equipment while shooting the Nadir bending over my equipment. But there are "many ways to Rome". Find your own workflow.

bbc597
04-11-2011, 05:00 PM
How do you fix LRS to C? Do you use the cm marks on the bottom rail? If so how? Or do you do it another way?

hindenhaag
04-11-2011, 10:25 PM
Yes, you are right. In the manual number 12 you can see the picture. Having slide the vertical end of the lower rail to its end for repeatable position, open up the clamp to be able to slide the lower rail in it. Center the LRS measurement to the center mark on top of the clamp. You have to find it in cm.

Heinz

bbc597
04-12-2011, 10:05 AM
"In the manual number 12" What manual are you talking about? Only manual I can find is this one...http://nodalninja.com/Manuals/M1L_Installation_QRG.pdf

hindenhaag
04-12-2011, 10:35 AM
Yes, you are right, forgot to set the link. Sorry for this.:blush:

The only one till now. Specially set up for Preproduction self assembly.

Heinz

bbc597
04-12-2011, 10:55 AM
Thanks...

My vertical arm is set so the back edge is lined up with the first hash mark on the horizontal rail. I measured the thickness of the vertical arm and added it to the measurements of "O" & "H". I then set it to the center mark of the lower clamp.

I measured and set the upper arm to aline the tripod mount on the camera to the 2 cm mark on the rail, and then set the upper arm to the calculated Entrance pupil distance on the upper clamp.

I am very pleased with my first attempt at setting the OSP. Thanks again.

DemonDuck
04-12-2011, 03:46 PM
IMHO: don't use numbers. Use the lens and LCD or viewfinder. For the vertical rail position, point the camera down at the pivot point and move the rail until the pivot point is in the center of the crosshairs. Try a pano then use the buzz saw method to correct. See above. Every camera and every head is a different from every other. You need to do your positioning for uniquely for your gear.

bbc597
04-12-2011, 04:59 PM
What cross hairs are you talking about?

hindenhaag
04-12-2011, 09:05 PM
Thanks...

My vertical arm is set so the back edge is lined up with the first hash mark on the horizontal rail. I measured the thickness of the vertical arm and added it to the measurements of "O" & "H". I then set it to the center mark of the lower clamp.

I measured and set the upper arm to aline the tripod mount on the camera to the 2 cm mark on the rail, and then set the upper arm to the calculated Entrance pupil distance on the upper clamp.

I am very pleased with my first attempt at setting the OSP. Thanks again.

Ups, you do not have to measure the thickness of the vertical rail.

http://homepage.mac.com/hindenhaag/filechute/LRS-M1.tif I have added some signs to understand it better.

For LRS just add the measurement O + H. Actually we need the lens axis with camera pointing down -90° directly to the rotation center of the rotator. The easiest way is to measure O + H with a ruler. Mount the camera to the upper rail, the slide the lower rail to LRS and fix the clamp. Now the lens axis should be very close to rotation center of the rotator.

Now add Smooth's "hacksaw method" as I already described below to fine tune the LRS.

Actually there are two ways to get near the LRS: measurement of O + H, or the "viewfinder method". Viewfinder method: fix camera to upper rail, set pitch= movements up and down to -90° on upper rotator. Now the lens points down to the lower rail. Now open up the LR-clamp, look through the viewfinder and slide the lower rail into place till you see the center of the rotator in the center of the viewfinder. If I remember well, Demon is shooting with a compact camera. So may be he has a "Cross Hair" in the center of his viewfinder. Then he will use this mark to place it on top of the rotation center of the rotator. Let us call it RC.

With NN3, NN5, you could use the logos center on top of the rotator and before this the fixing screw of lower rail to rotator to center it easily to the center of the viewfinder. With M1 Series, there is no logo to center to. The only possibility to center to are the marks on top of the lower rail clamp besides the lower rail. This is a lot more tricky. Because of this, Nick and I advised to measure the "theoretical LRS" of O + H.

Anyway, to correct "faults in the camera lens system" use the hacksaw method to fine tune LRS.

http://www.easypano.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=4162

@bbc597: Did I explain it in the right way to understand what we are talking about?
Feel free to ask.

Regards,
Heinz

DemonDuck
04-12-2011, 10:11 PM
Ooops! Looked more closely at the M. The lower rail slides on the clamp. Forget what I said, it's stupid.

hindenhaag
04-12-2011, 11:57 PM
Shit happens. But you tried to give help to one of the forum members. Tha'ts what counts.:wink:

Cheers,
Heinz

hindenhaag
04-13-2011, 12:06 AM
Shit happens. But you tried to give help to one of the forum members. That's what counts.:wink:

Cheers,
Heinz

bbc597
04-13-2011, 10:44 AM
Ups, you do not have to measure the thickness of the vertical rail.

http://homepage.mac.com/hindenhaag/filechute/LRS-M1.tif I have added some signs to understand it better.

For LRS just add the measurement O + H. Actually we need the lens axis with camera pointing down -90° directly to the rotation center of the rotator. The easiest way is to measure O + H with a ruler. Mount the camera to the upper rail, the slide the lower rail to LRS and fix the clamp. Now the lens axis should be very close to rotation center of the rotator.

Now add Smooth's "hacksaw method" as I already described below to fine tune the LRS.

Actually there are two ways to get near the LRS: measurement of O + H, or the "viewfinder method". Viewfinder method: fix camera to upper rail, set pitch= movements up and down to -90° on upper rotator. Now the lens points down to the lower rail. Now open up the LR-clamp, look through the viewfinder and slide the lower rail into place till you see the center of the rotator in the center of the viewfinder. If I remember well, Demon is shooting with a compact camera. So may be he has a "Cross Hair" in the center of his viewfinder. Then he will use this mark to place it on top of the rotation center of the rotator. Let us call it RC.

With NN3, NN5, you could use the logos center on top of the rotator and before this the fixing screw of lower rail to rotator to center it easily to the center of the viewfinder. With M1 Series, there is no logo to center to. The only possibility to center to are the marks on top of the lower rail clamp besides the lower rail. This is a lot more tricky. Because of this, Nick and I advised to measure the "theoretical LRS" of O + H.

Anyway, to correct "faults in the camera lens system" use the hacksaw method to fine tune LRS.

http://www.easypano.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=4162

@bbc597: Did I explain it in the right way to understand what we are talking about?
Feel free to ask.

Regards,
Heinz


Can you comment on the "hacksaw method" using the M1 clamp? With the M1 clamp being larger, you cannot see the rounded edges of the rotator.

Cameleer
04-13-2011, 04:55 PM
I received my Ultimate M1 and already started trying some other setups like this duel camera setup below.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/duel.jpg
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/duel2.jpg

One of the cameras has a rotator above it for aliment of the 2 cameras.
The extra rotator near the bottom is being used as a spacer for camera clearance.

This is a heavy setup with the two 70-200mm f/2.8 lenses, but it's balanced and seems to handle it rather well.
Setting it up this way also lets the two cameras move together as one.

hindenhaag
04-13-2011, 10:18 PM
Can you comment on the "hacksaw method" using the M1 clamp? With the M1 clamp being larger, you cannot see the rounded edges of the rotator.

Ups, sorry did not know this because equipment is on its way.

To solve this my first attempt would be to cut out a circle of white paper with the diameter of the rotator, place a center line or a cross on top of it to center it to the center marks on the clamp and tape it on the rail.

Heinz

hindenhaag
04-13-2011, 10:24 PM
I received my Ultimate M1 and already started trying some other setups like this duel camera setup below.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/duel.jpg
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/duel2.jpg

One of the cameras has a rotator above it for aliment of the 2 cameras.
The extra rotator near the bottom is being used as a spacer for camera clearance.

This is a heavy setup with the two 70-200mm f/2.8 lenses, but it's balanced and seems to handle it rather well.
Setting it up this way also lets the two cameras move together as one.

Hi,

I watch this with a big smile on my face to see you solving your questions in a very quick way and find a way around with self made or custom made equipment.

Looks like you found the REALLY RIGHT STUFF : http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=PCL-1&type=0&eq=&desc=PCL-1%3a-Panning-Clamp

Thx for sharing.

Heinz

DennisS
04-14-2011, 06:51 AM
To calibrate a pano head using the hacksaw method when you cannot see all of the rotator, I use a piece of thin carboard cut to a 6" circle (or whatever size works) with a 3/8 hole in the middle. You place this cardboard between the rotator and the tripod head. You do not have to be too precise.

hindenhaag
04-14-2011, 07:53 AM
Thx for the tip DennisS.

Following the pics I suppose the clamp is 5,5 / 6,5cm and it is square. Diameter of rotator is 6 cm. But the corners of the clamp hang over. Using a cardboard - the word I was missing - below the rotator, it should be wider to be seen from above. May be 3-5".

Heinz

BTW: It is a good time to follow up the manuals. from time to time we get some new ones: http://www.nodalninja.com/Manuals/M1L_Installation_QRG.pdf Thx Bill.

bbc597
04-14-2011, 09:30 AM
Thanks to both of you, I'll try the cut out...

DennisS, that is a cool setup!

Cameleer
04-14-2011, 10:20 AM
For this center aliment I'm just using the allen head screw that you can see through the lower rail slot.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head1.jpg

Here's a picture of my setup with a 15mm lens, I still need to set up the other aliment and slide my camera back a little.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head2.jpg

I have the extra rotator on lower rail for a little more height and it makes for a nice nadir adapter.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head3.jpg

I love all of the things that you can do with this new pano head!!!

Roger Berry

bbc597
04-14-2011, 10:42 AM
Has anyone notice that once the M1 is level using the lower rail bubble, and then rotated, that the level via the bubble on the lower rail drifts?

I'm using the RD16 Rotator with the M1...

hindenhaag
04-14-2011, 10:52 AM
Roger,

thx for sharing. I myself found out using the hacksaw method after I have centered by using the screw of the "old NN5 version" with -90° plus laser assistance , I had to correct my lower rail setting. With different Nikon Bodies. To add on Smooth's hacksaw method, I need to use a circle.

"Can serve as a nadir adapter" was my first idea seeing your pics with the extra rotator. For those who own one already, we don't have to wait for the one Nick will produce for a much better price.

And thx for sharing Roger. This is a proof that because of the "special Nodal Ninja Service" you are fully equipped for the following trip to "Saudi Arabia". I am eager to see the results.

You seem to be always good for a "joker" to solve special questions on how to develop or add on to normal equipment.

Cheers and success,
Heinz


come home safe

hindenhaag
04-14-2011, 10:57 AM
Roger,

thx for sharing. I myself found out using the hacksaw method after I have centered by using the screw of the "old NN5 version" with -90° plus laser assistance , I had to correct my lower rail setting. With different Nikon Bodies. To add on Smooth's hacksaw method, I need to use a circle.

"Can serve as a nadir adapter" was my first idea seeing your pics with the extra rotator. For those who own one already, we don't have to wait for the one Nick will produce for a much better price.

And thx for sharing Roger. This is a proof that because of the "special Nodal Ninja Service" you are fully equipped for the following trip to "Saudi Arabia". I am eager to see the results.

You seem to be always good for a "joker" to solve special questions on how to develop or add on to normal equipment.

Cheers and success,
Heinz

hindenhaag
04-14-2011, 11:17 AM
Has anyone notice that once the M1 is level using the lower rail bubble, and then rotated, that the level via the bubble on the lower rail drifts?

Keep cool man,

This is one of the oldest secrets since this bubble leveller exists on Nodal Ninja Products: I will try to solve it. "Does not matter!" . The bubble is very precise, as long as it does not leave the center totally, it is ok. If there might be a problem with a sort of "curved pano", the software will deal with it. But I like the way you try to use the new equipment. Being very precise in the beginning. Using this workflow you will get experience when you have to be very precise, and what may heal your "faults with additional workflow". Leveling in PTGui for example.

Just level the first picture and then you leave it alone.

But I never had to use it with a little movement of the bubble.

We like to get to know about further success with the new Modular Line because you are one of the first guys to be able to use it. Congrats.

Cheers,
Heinz

Cameleer
04-14-2011, 11:33 AM
Hi bbc597

I just checked the bubble level on my setup and the bubble never went outside the black circle.
Here are 4 shots showing the bubble level at north, south, east and west.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head4.jpg

btw, to change my rig from the 2 camera setup back to a 1 camera setup took about 2 minutes.

Roger Berry

hindenhaag
04-14-2011, 11:44 AM
Nick,

I am sure it would be a great "Add On" to M1-x orders in the future to include a plastic "X inch circle plate" with a dove tailed bottom with a center cross on top and a mark at the side to fix it to the center mark of the lower rail clamp to slide along the lower rail. Or one with a 3/8 1/4" plate to place below the rotator as DennisS mentioned?

I know you are working hard,
but this would be the point on the "i" for NN/Fanotec products. And a great answer to "sharks in the basin". :th_wink:

Cheers,
Heinz

bbc597
04-14-2011, 11:46 AM
Again, thanks to the both of you...

Roger, when can we see some pic's taken with your setup? The wife says it's for 3D images, is this true?

hindenhaag
04-14-2011, 11:51 AM
Roger,

Thx for the reply. I never saw this as well. Nice to be proved also from your side. I have tested it on R1, NN3 MKII, NN5 bubbles as well. Always the same results: Level for first picture, then leave it alone and shoot around without leveling.

Nice to get input from your special experiences to the forum.

Heinz

Cameleer
04-14-2011, 01:14 PM
I used the allen head screw for the first aliment and then clamped a Bogen magic arm to the tripod center column with a plumb bob line for the second aliment.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head6.jpg

This is the Canon 24mm f/1.4 lens, now it's time to go out and try some test shots.

Wish I could use this lens with it, the pano head is definitely strong enough.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head5.jpg

Roger Berry

Cameleer
04-14-2011, 04:09 PM
My first test with a Canon 5D-2 and 24mm f/1.4 lens.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/vrphotos/river_dike3.html

When mounting the camera plate back onto the quick release clamp there are no aliment marks on the camera plate, it's easy to get the adjustment off a little.
This may have been what caused my error. I could add an aliment mark or even better, drill a hole in the camera plate where the quick release clamp's pen will fall into it.

Something else that would be interesting to try, add a screw in plate inside of the MFR-170 top rail. Drill holes in this new plate to align up with your different lenses where the quick release clamp QRC-55 pin will drop into these holes. Looks like there's plenty of room to add a small plate in there, and it would be easy to replace if you got an aliment hole wrong or changed cameras.

Roger Berry

DemonDuck
04-14-2011, 08:37 PM
:biggrin:Ahem....It clearly is not a hack saw method. It clearly is a buzz saw method. Hack saws are straight -- buzz saws are round. Goodness gracious people.:001_smile:

nick fan
04-15-2011, 03:03 AM
When mounting the camera plate back onto the quick release clamp there are no aliment marks on the camera plate, it's easy to get the adjustment off a little.
This may have been what caused my error. I could add an aliment mark or even better, drill a hole in the camera plate where the quick release clamp's pen will fall into it.

Something else that would be interesting to try, add a screw in plate inside of the MFR-170 top rail. Drill holes in this new plate to align up with your different lenses where the quick release clamp QRC-55 pin will drop into these holes. Looks like there's plenty of room to add a small plate in there, and it would be easy to replace if you got an aliment hole wrong or changed cameras.

Roger Berry

The camera plate included in the package SHOULD have a mark at the center of the plate for alignment.
I will make integrated stops for rails and camera plate. The stop plates will be engaged by the safety pin on the QR clamp, ensuring quick reproducible mounting of cameras or lenses.
I am working hard to speed up development of stop plates, nadir adapter, QR clamp for sliding on the rail and custom camera plates.
Well, at least for what you got in hand, you know the Modular System is on the right track. :-)

Nick

Cameleer
04-15-2011, 08:12 AM
Hi Nick,

Sorry, I should have explained that I was using a different camera mounting plate that's made for the Canon 5D-2.
I have already ordered a better one that has the aliment markings on it, I also needed a high-quality one before making a lens indexing plate.

This photo should give you a rough idea of what I was talking about having a lens indexing plate that drops into the upper rail.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head7.jpg

If the holes are not drilled all of the way through you could setup 4 different sets of indexing hloes and just flip the plate around or over for use with 4 different cameras.

I hope to have one done this weekend, and once I get the first hole aligned right it should just be a matter of some measurements to get the rest of them right

Roger Berry

nick fan
04-15-2011, 10:14 AM
Hi Nick,

Sorry, I should have explained that I was using a different camera mounting plate that's made for the Canon 5D-2.
This photo should give you a rough idea of what I was talking about having a lens indexing plate that drops into the upper rail.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head7.jpg

nice attempt on the home-made integrated rail stops. the safety pin has a diameter of 3mm, so it will allow multiple stops/ settings to be used provided they are 5mm apart.
2 rail stops can be used on the rail, so many combinations are possible. One just need to turn the QR clamp by 180 deg to use the other rail stop.
One can provide me the settings and I will make the stop plate. I need to set up a system to do this effectively. one can also use 3d printing to make a custom plate.

Nick

Cameleer
04-15-2011, 11:10 AM
Hi Nick,

This plate should be thick enough that the holes don't have to go all of the way through, so you can also use the backside of it for 2 more multiple rail stops making a total of 4, one set on each edge.
You may have to use the same brand of camera mounting plate to keep the spacing proper, that's why I'm waiting for my new mounting plate to arrive before drilling any holes.

Roger Berry

Cameleer
04-19-2011, 06:46 PM
I got started on making a lens indexing plate. The plate fits snugly inside the upper rail and the quick release clamp, this makes sure it stays in place, no need for screws and is very easy to change.
The black marks are examples where small slots will be milled to align up with different lenses, and the center is milled out for adding info for what index goes with that lens.
The back side also has the same milling giving you 4 different indexes.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/lens_plate.jpg

Here is a view of everything set up..
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/lens_plate2.jpg

Before I start setting up different lenses and milling out the index slots there's something else I want to try and change around.
Flip the upper rail around so that my indexing plate will be on the other side and use 2 quick release clamps back to back, set it up where my camera slides along the upper rail. This way you won't see the upper rail through the lens when using fisheye lenses.

Here's a few more photos where you can see the lens indexing plate as I was trying out a different configuration with some rail parts I have.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head8.jpg
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head9.jpg

Roger Berry

Destiny
04-19-2011, 08:04 PM
My husband John is.... drooling...!! We both went "WOW" when we saw the images above. He really wants one..!!
Personally I just have one little question... After setting up my NN4, I was told to look straight down on the bubble to centre it.. I found it a bit hard see with the camera in the way, but just about doable. Now that the bubble is more centred on this pano head, do you think it will be visible with a large camera mounted on it, like the D3X???

D....

DennisS
04-19-2011, 08:49 PM
I do not see the point of having 5 arms on this pano head. This has got to be less stable than 3 arms and the Nadir adapter. Much heavier also. Why 5 arms? I get the indexing plate (nice mod), but don't understand the rest. Better yet, get the lens ring clamp (if it is available for this lens) and you will be down to 2 arms.

Destiny
04-19-2011, 09:08 PM
Just a quick message to Bill and Nick, el-supremo and designer!.. My dad is a retired engineer and a very good one. He had his engineering business for many years but it was only that last 10 years he had CNC machines so he understands many things associated with the design and manufacture of engineered parts.. He has checked out the photo's at the top of this forum and was VERY impressed! "Thats a nice piece of design engineering" is what he said. He has also checked out my NN4 and is equally impressed....

Destiny...

Cameleer
04-19-2011, 09:26 PM
I do not see the point of having 5 arms on this pano head. This has got to be less stable than 3 arms and the Nadir adapter. Much heavier also. Why 5 arms? I get the indexing plate (nice mod), but don't understand the rest. Better yet, get the lens ring clamp (if it is available for this lens) and you will be down to 2 arms.

Why did I use 5 arms, because I could, and it was still amazingly stable.
Also this way with a Canon 5D, 10mm lens only the end of the lower rail would be in the photo (and tripod) that is if the upper rail where a little shorter. Normally all 3 rails show.
Maybe this is not a problem, I have not tried using it with the fisheye lens yet because of the upper rail being too much in the way.

How long will it take to change from my 24mm lens to my 10.5mm lens with a lens ring, and how about when I want to use my 15mm lens?

The other Ninja heads are made where the camera and lens slides along the upper rail, and I think there's a good reason for that.
So now if I add a double sided quick release clamp along the upper rail, this setup will work like the other Ninja heads and I won't need different sizes of upper rails or a lens ring.
Less equipment to carry around and will only take a few seconds when changing to different lenses.

Roger Berry

hindenhaag
04-19-2011, 09:36 PM
After setting up my NN4, I was told to look straight down on the bubble to centre it.. I found it a bit hard see with the camera in the way, but just about doable. Now that the bubble is more centered on this pano head, do you think it will be visible with a large camera mounted on it, like the D3X???

D....

No, you can't see the bubble from straight up. To center the bubble before mounting the camera does not help because the bubble will be off center after mounting the camera.

To solve this, I use a small round mirror one of those dental ones or small electronic mirrors with a handle on it. Using it at a degree of around 45° you can center the bubble for the first shot "from a side view like from on top". Try to check it by moving the mirror to different places around the bubble. You will be surprised of the position of the "centered bubble" set up from the side view compared to the mirror viewed position.

Heinz

Destiny
04-19-2011, 10:24 PM
Hi Heinz.. Sorry to be a bit bubble mad.. I have had my issues with this since our floor is so slippery so the tripod legs splay out by the time I get to the last test pano, so my bubble has moved position too.. I will fix that when I can afford to buy the levelling plate then I will splay out the leg at max. I was thinking that since the tripod bubble is different to that of the pano head, and that is not far from each other, that the distance from the lens and the pano bubble is a lot further. And after-all, it's the image taken from the lens that's important.. So I had the thought that I would buy the Hot Shoe Bubble which would be a lot closer to the lens and consequently provide for a much more accurate form of levelling device. But I am not sure this is the answer. .. Some web sites say that it's not important that the bubble is level but it does not mention fisheye lenses..
Then I thought, if its not important why put a bubble there in the first place, so it must be important since all pano heads have them....
http://www.epinions.com/t-flash-mount-bubble-level

D...


No, you can't see the bubble from straight up. To center the bubble before mounting the camera does not help because the bubble will be off center after mounting the camera.

To solve this, I use a small round mirror one of those dental ones or small electronic mirrors with a handle on it. Using it at a degree of around 45° you can center the bubble for the first shot "from a side view like from on top". Try to check it by moving the mirror to different places around the bubble. You will be surprised of the position of the "centered bubble" set up from the side view compared to the mirror viewed position.

Heinz

nick fan
04-20-2011, 02:59 AM
Some web sites say that it's not important that the bubble is level but it does not mention fisheye lenses..
Then I thought, if its not important why put a bubble there in the first place, so it must be important since all pano heads have them....
http://www.epinions.com/t-flash-mount-bubble-level

For a spherical pano, accurate leveling is not important. It can be leveled in the stitcher.
bubbles moves upon rotation because:
1. bubble has high sensitive
2. bubble has inherent error in accuracy
3. tripod/ rotator has some flexibility
4. bubble is not set accurately in factory
5. user error in leveling, eg viewing the bubble at wrong angle.

all this make it impossible for the bubble to stay stationary during rotation.

Nick

John Houghton
04-20-2011, 06:03 AM
As NIck says, levelling is not usually important since the panorama can often be accurately levelled in the stitching. However, for a single row panorama not including the zenith and nadir areas, levelling is important in order to ensure the maximum panorama height is obtained. With a panohead that is not level, the panorama will wave up and down when it has been levelled in the stitching to get the verticals properly vertical. Then, when a tidy rectangular crop is made, you lose some height as shown in this exaggerated example:

http://www.johnhpanos.com/unlevelcrop.jpg

Some people like to use a bubble level on the camera to level the initial shot. That shot can then be fixed in a level position in the stitching, with the remaining shots left free to align with it so that the whole panorama automatically becomes level.

The type of lens used is not relevant when levelling. It makes no difference whether its a fisheye or a standard rectilinear lens.

John

DennisS
04-20-2011, 06:53 AM
Why did I use 5 arms, because I couldWorks for me.


Also this way with a Canon 5D, 10mm lens only the end of the lower rail would be in the photo Do the rails show up in the final stitch?


How long will it take to change from my 24mm lens to my 10.5mm lens with a lens ring, and how about when I want to use my 15mm lens?No longer than it would take to swap out lenses on your camera body. You would need a separate clamp for each lens. You leave the clamp on the lens. The rail stop is built into the base of the clamp, not the pano head. You would still need to adjust the vertical arm when changing lenses on either setup so there is no time saved on that step.


Less equipment to carry around and will only take a few seconds when changing to different lenses.That is the point of a lens clamp. If the pano head does not appear in the final stitch, using a lens ring clamp would allow you to remove 3 of the 5 arms from your rig. The result would be much lighter and way less complicated.

I have not previously heard of the arms appearing in the picture being a problem. Since I do not have your camera/lens combo, I cannot personally comment on that part.

DennisS
04-20-2011, 06:58 AM
Then I thought, if its not important why put a bubble there in the first place, so it must be important since all pano heads have them....
The bubble level is there as a reference. The bubble will move around as you capture your panorama. Car interiors are shot with the pano head poking in through the driver side window. The entire rig is at a 90 degree angle. This is nowhere near level. The key is to not move anything or make any adjustments during the sequence. Your stitching software will have ways to level out your panorama. All you need to do is get close for the initial leveling, but not perfect.

nick fan
04-20-2011, 07:15 AM
My husband John is.... drooling...!! We both went "WOW" when we saw the images above. He really wants one..!!
Personally I just have one little question... After setting up my NN4, I was told to look straight down on the bubble to centre it.. I found it a bit hard see with the camera in the way, but just about doable. Now that the bubble is more centred on this pano head, do you think it will be visible with a large camera mounted on it, like the D3X???

D....

there is a little trick to set the level properly at view angles not perfectly above the bubble. you treat the circular bubble as a twin-axis level. You first center the bubble when you view it at an angle perpendicular to the lower rail. Then you center the bubble at an angle parallel to the lower rail.

we will make a mirror addon for the ultimate rails so that one can see the level accurately from the side, a design we developed for advanced pole bubble level.


nick

hindenhaag
04-20-2011, 07:25 AM
D...

The bubble leveller is an ongoing story. It is important to level the first shot as good as possible. Then leave it alone. The bubble will move inside the black ring taking your shots around. This is ok. The software will deal with this. You are right, to be very secure about leveling the best place would be the hot shoe on top of the camera. I think most of us have tried this with a 2/3way bubble leveller. But you need this place for your remote control. So most of us just use the bubble leveller placed on the panoheads. And it works fine. It is good to try to be as precise as possible in the beginning to learn about the needs of it. Then you can change your workflow to your experiences.

Heinz

Cameleer
04-20-2011, 10:54 AM
When using a 10.5mm fisheye this roughly shows how much the upper rail is in the way, and the one beside it shows it when the camera slides along the rail.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head10.jpg

Here are 2 photos showing the double quick release clamp setup, although I plan on getting a different clamp.
This slides along the upper rail and the quick release clamp's 3mm safety pin will fall into the indexing lens plate slots.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head11.jpg
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head12.jpg

In this photo you can see a red circle where I slid the rail forward a little. This will be a bushing to make the hole smaller where the quick release clamp's 3mm safety pin will fall into it setting the aliment up for this end.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head13.jpg

This way the upper rail is set in the same place every time, the camera slides along it and a 3mm pen drops into the lens indexing plate, also the rail is no longer in the photo when using fisheye lenses.

I know I'm not to good at explaining things in writing, that's why I'm using a lot of photos.

Roger Berry

Cameleer
04-21-2011, 11:49 AM
I got the aliment bushing put in my upper rail, it's actually a plug with a slot in it for the quick release clamp safety pin, and it works good.
But then I got to thinking, why do I even need a quick release clamp between the rotator and upper rail.
On the end of the upper rail add 2 anti-twisting screws and a center screw hole like the quick release clamp has. Now you have the option of not using the quick release clamp, and without it things are a little simpler.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head15.jpg

If you wanted to remove the rail you only have to pull out 1 screw, but it folds up so nicely that I don't think many people would take it apart.
In this photo the upper rail clears the foot of the vertical rail but I had to move the upper rail up a little which I don't like. There's a few ways this could be fixed, but I'm thinking of adding a 8mm spacer with a nice rounded edge between the rotator and upper rail. This edge on the rotator is too sharp so adding the 8mm spacer will fix 2 problems.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head16.jpg

It would be nice if this vertical rail where a little taller, then I could skip adding the 8mm spacer, of course I could also rotate the vertical rail but the that puts the knob in front.

Roger Berry

Bill Bailey
04-21-2011, 05:41 PM
Hey Roger,
Nice speaking with you on the phone today. We appreciate the time you have spent in sharing your feedback. Nick (manufacturer and developer) is always listening. We would hope all users on our products would offer detailed feedback. We build our products largely in part from end user feedback. So whether pros and cons please share your experiences and suggestions.
Bill

Cameleer
04-22-2011, 12:39 AM
Hi Nick,

I would like to find out if I can get some parts.

First would be a Multifunctional Rail 170mm (MFR-170) I want to replace my lower rail (MFR-210) before doing a modification to it, also I’m not using a battery grip and don’t need a rail this long.

Second, can I get 2 Quick Release Clamps 55mm (QRC-55) with the shorter knobs like the Quick Release Clamp 40mm (QRC-40) has? I would like to use these back-to-back on the upper rail to camera plate, I need shorter knobs so the camera battery won’t be blocked and also so there will be clearance at the lower rail when shooting the zenith.

Thanks,
Roger Berry

nick fan
04-22-2011, 10:14 AM
Hi Nick,

I would like to find out if I can get some parts.

First would be a Multifunctional Rail 170mm (MFR-170) I want to replace my lower rail (MFR-210) before doing a modification to it, also I’m not using a battery grip and don’t need a rail this long.

Second, can I get 2 Quick Release Clamps 55mm (QRC-55) with the shorter knobs like the Quick Release Clamp 40mm (QRC-40) has? I would like to use these back-to-back on the upper rail to camera plate, I need shorter knobs so the camera battery won’t be blocked and also so there will be clearance at the lower rail when shooting the zenith.

Thanks,
Roger Berry

That is ok. you better contact me in email. nick a t fanotec . co m.

Nick

kabkos
05-02-2011, 07:30 AM
What is the status of the M1 production model? Any closer to getting it finalized? Also, what is the status on shipping for the pre-production models? Curious and excited about the new ultimate series of pano-heads.

hindenhaag
05-02-2011, 08:39 AM
Hi kabkos and welcome to the forum,

When you log in on e-store, you will find infos about availability, shipping dates, or out of stock infos by clicking the desired product.

M1 at this time has only Pre-models. They will be sent following incoming and already placed orders.

Regards,
Heinz

Cameleer
05-02-2011, 04:19 PM
Here's my new modification to the upper rail.
As you will see in this photo I drilled, taped and installed 2 anti twist screws in the rail, this will make for repeatable alignment and easy setup on the upper rotator.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head20.jpg

Photo of the upper rail mounted to the rotator, you can see the 2 new holes above and below the center mounting screw.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head21.jpg

Here's a view of the setup, for added clearance I had to rotate the vertical rail where the knob is in the front now. When using a nodal point adapter vertical rail will need to be installed like this anyway. It would be nice if the vertical rail was made with the knob on the opposite side, as I assume most people will be using a nodal point adapter.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head22.jpg

Another view of the setup.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head23.jpg

Using a nodal point adapter
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head24.jpg

The pivot point of the upper rail is at about 21mm. With a little math you can figure out rail setting, once you have the upper rail adjusted to your camera put a little paint mark on the quick release clamp as shown in this photo. Canon 5D, Canon 15mm lens, rail setting 79mm. Now you can us the Entrance pupil database and easily set you rig for other lenses.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head25.jpg

Roger Berry

Bill Bailey
05-03-2011, 05:42 PM
Using a nodal point adapter
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head24.jpg

Clever mods - curious how the EZ-Leveler-II held up in this configuration as it would appear to fall outside the design limitations. Did the EZ-L lift a bit on the opposite side?
Bill

Cameleer
05-03-2011, 06:38 PM
Clever mods - curious how the EZ-Leveler-II held up in this configuration as it would appear to fall outside the design limitations. Did the EZ-L lift a bit on the opposite side?
Bill

I didn't realize the EZ-Leveler-II had this limitation.
Works fine when extended out like this with the Canon 5D mk2 and Canon 15mm lens.
Tested it with the Canon 16-35mm f/2.8L II lens and it will work without lifting when in the right orientation.

I guess if needed you could readjusted one of the wheels and re-level it when using a heavy lens.

Next week I will be working on 1 or 2 lower rail mods.

Roger Berry

kabkos
05-10-2011, 01:40 PM
Attached is a MSWord doc with lens settings for use with the M1L Ultimate panohead. I am using a RRS L-bracket on my Nikon D300. Hope the information helps out.

I am really impressed at how smooth and easy to use the M1L is compared to the NN5 (which was a sweet piece of equipment just not super easy to change settings). Hopefully a Fanotec logoed carrying case for the M1L will be available for purchase in the near future.

karl

hindenhaag
05-10-2011, 10:06 PM
Hi,

thx for sharing. Could you please specify the lenses cause there are different models on some focus lengths.

Heinz

kabkos
05-11-2011, 08:16 AM
Sorry for not including the specific lens information on the chart. The lenses listed on the chart are: Tokina SD 11-16mm f/2.8 (IF) DX, Nikon 20mm f/3.5 AI Nikkor UD, Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AF, Nikon 35mm f/1.8G AFS, Nikon 50mm f/1.4G AFS, Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5, Nikon 85mm f/1.4G AFS, Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/4 AI-S.

I measured the thickness of the RRS L-bracket for Portrait position and compared it to the universal camera mount that came with the M1-L and the universal camera mount is 0.5mm thicker. The measurement for thickness was made at the base of the dovetail. So my chart can be modified to match the universal bracket by adding 0.5mm for the Portrait numbers. Since the universal bracket isn't a L-bracket there is no equivalent for the Landscape data on the chart.

karl

hindenhaag
05-11-2011, 09:28 AM
Tokina SD 11-16mm f/2.8 (IF) DX, Nikon 20mm f/3.5 AI Nikkor UD, Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AF, Nikon 35mm f/1.8G AFS, Nikon 50mm f/1.4G AFS, Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5, Nikon 85mm f/1.4G AFS, Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/4 AI-S.
karl

Thx a lot for specifying your lenses. I think it might be a good idea to ask you to add the quoted text to your list and send a new attachment. Otherwise it might be hard to follow up and people might miss this comment because of new posts. I tried to but I can not send attachment.

Nice set of lenses that you own. You miss a Samyang 8mm in that set to downgrade.:th_wink:

Regards,
Heinz

kabkos
05-11-2011, 11:51 AM
Attached is a revised list with both a RRS L-bracket and Universal Camera Base chart. I have also added to the bottom of each chart a list of the lenses that the chart applies to.

hindenhaag
05-11-2011, 12:13 PM
Thx a lot Karl,

this will help us a lot to set up a certified LRS/URS list for settings.

May be I will contact you later on for the certified list.

Thx for your input taking your time to find out and share this on the forum.

My new M1-L is still passing customs. I am eager to test it. I will let you know about settings with different Nikon equipment. Nick is setting up a testified lens data base with special back plates for M1 to click to NPP. This will take some time. Your response helps us to set up this database.

Cheers,
Heinz

Special Questions on IM appreciated.

kabkos
05-11-2011, 01:52 PM
Hi Heinz,
I went through my collection of Nikkor lenses and have updated the list to cover the lenses that I would use for panorama work (14 lenses in all). If you have any questions, feel free to email me.

regards,
karl

Elliot
05-12-2011, 07:02 AM
Karl

Very seldom I write on any of the internet forums. Your article on the lenses and their calibration is excellent. I ussually take photos of medical rooms at hospitals, these rooms ussually have tiled floors and ceilings. These type of floors and ceilings can cause serious parallax issues. Head calibration for these type of rooms is critical. During the last several years I have purchased many different types of pano heads and more or less all of them have the same issues. Manufacturers do not have a very good reference list of the various settings and all they do is to refer people to the callibration articles posted on the many ionternet sites. Several months ago I purchased a Nikon 8mm f 2.8 in mint conditions, these lens is also very succeptible to these calibrations points and there is very little support on the 8mm.

Your idea and contribution is excellent and should be continued to make this new head a successful device.

Thanks
Elliot

kabkos
05-12-2011, 08:08 AM
Elliot,
your comments regarding settings for lenses is what made me develop my list of lens settings. I hope the format that I used for the list is intuitive to users.

Since I use the RRS L-bracket I had to modify the list for the different base offset of the universal camera base provided by Fanotec. I looked at the list that I uploaded yesterday and I realize that I failed to make the offset correction. So, with egg on my face here is the corrected lens list. My apologies to everyone for not double checking my work.

karl

hindenhaag
05-12-2011, 09:01 AM
Karl,

Thx a lot for updating the list.

Just one question: why do you say 180mm lens not possible with RD 16. It would take 96 shots on D300. That would be possible with RD16.

Heinz

carrollmorgan
05-12-2011, 09:09 AM
Heinz, you probably already know this, but don't do like I did and empty all 9 boxes in excitement. Keep the contents in the boxes as it will make assembly easier.

Cheers,

Carroll Morgan


My new M1-L is still passing customs. I am eager to test it. I will let you know about settings with different Nikon equipment. Nick is setting up a testified lens data base with special back plates for M1 to click to NPP. This will take some time. Your response helps us to set up this database.

Cheers,
Heinz

Special Questions on IM appreciated.

kabkos
05-12-2011, 03:46 PM
Hi Heinz,
you are correct, the RD16 can operate down to 3.75degree increments (96 shots). When I was building the chart I was looking at the rotator head and not the instructions for the rotator, I misread the Degree/2 settings. So, I pulled out the trusty manual and rechecked the lens chart (and boy did I misinterpret the RD16 markings). I have now corrected the lens chart. Glad you caught the error.

Attached is another attempt at getting the data out correctly. My apologies for misinterpreting the RD16 markings.

karl

PS: please feel free to edit and upload the chart, to upload go to the advanced reply section, click on the paperclip, find the file on your computer and upload it to the Nodal Ninja server

Elliot
05-13-2011, 04:32 AM
Karl

Excellent....! Great idea and contribution.....!

Thanks
Elliot

hindenhaag
05-13-2011, 05:00 AM
Hi Carroll,

Thx for advice, still in customs. Would be nice to get it soon. May take even weeks. Grrrrr...

Cheers,
Heinz

bbc597
05-13-2011, 02:59 PM
Would it be a problem to place the upper rail (the shorter rail) at 15.5 cm center onto the clamp? Is there enough rail left on the clamp to hold?

nick fan
05-15-2011, 07:56 AM
Would it be a problem to place the upper rail (the shorter rail) at 15.5 cm center onto the clamp? Is there enough rail left on the clamp to hold?

Is the rail MFR-170 (170mm)? it is ok for it. MFR-160 may be a bit insecure.

Nick

nick fan
05-15-2011, 07:57 AM
Hi Heinz,
you are correct, the RD16 can operate down to 3.75degree increments (96 shots). When I was building the chart I was looking at the rotator head and not the instructions for the rotator, I misread the Degree/2 settings. So, I pulled out the trusty manual and rechecked the lens chart (and boy did I misinterpret the RD16 markings). I have now corrected the lens chart. Glad you caught the error.

Attached is another attempt at getting the data out correctly. My apologies for misinterpreting the RD16 markings.

karl

PS: please feel free to edit and upload the chart, to upload go to the advanced reply section, click on the paperclip, find the file on your computer and upload it to the Nodal Ninja server

Karl,

Thx for sharing. That is a great list of data.

Nick

bbc597
05-15-2011, 01:41 PM
Is the rail MFR-170 (170mm)? it is ok for it. MFR-160 may be a bit insecure.

Nick

Yes my upper rail is the MFR-170, thanks.

My Canon DSLR with a 10-22mm at 22mm will not go further than 45 degrees up before hitting the lower clamp, and my 24-70mm at 24mm will hit the lower clamp the 37.5 degree detent stop. (Also my 70-200mm at 70mm will hit the clamp at 37.5, but I'm NOT concern about that)

Is there a solution I can get to perhaps raise the vertical rail? (MFVR-170C)

nick fan
05-15-2011, 06:19 PM
Yes my upper rail is the MFR-170, thanks.

My Canon DSLR with a 10-22mm at 22mm will not go further than 45 degrees up before hitting the lower clamp, and my 24-70mm at 24mm will hit the lower clamp the 37.5 degree detent stop. (Also my 70-200mm at 70mm will hit the clamp at 37.5, but I'm NOT concern about that)

Is there a solution I can get to perhaps raise the vertical rail? (MFVR-170C)
This can be achieved by using our nadir adapter which has proven to be a very popular and helpful accessory for NN3/4/5. It makes nadir patching much easier. So you kill two birds with one stone.
The version for Ultimate M series will be out soon.
191

BTW, you can extend the upper rail by installing the QRC-40A via 2 holes at the end of MFR-170.

Nick

kabkos
05-16-2011, 05:59 PM
Attached is a "wordsmithed" version of the lens chart that I posted earlier. I clarified the "2 pins needed" by stating where the pins need to be placed on the RD16. I know from experience how easy it is to get rattled when you are trying to remember all of the details to capture a panorama.

regards,
karl

alexovi4
05-17-2011, 11:54 AM
Hello.
I'm beggining in process of creation a panoramas.
I'm very like the NodalNinja Head and want to create panoramas using this heads.
But have a question about choice of needing heads for me, what heads is more suitable for me?

My technics now: Nikon D90, Nikkor 18-200mm, Nikkor 10.5mm.
In future I want add to my equipment: Nikkor 14-24mm, Nikkor 70-200mm.
The purpose: priority - spherical panoramas at home, in cars, rooms etc, less - gigapano...
Reading information from http://www.nodalninja.com/ web-site I understand that:
- NN4 is good universal head, but not modular. It is suite for all my current and future lens and body.
- R1 and R10 is only for fisheye lens
- M1-L and M1-S - last, modern, perfect quality, comfortable heads.
- M1-L is not suitable for current 10.5mm lens, I need to byu additional shorter Upper Rail.
- M1-S is not suitable for future 70-200mm lens, I need to add longer Upper Rail.
- For M1-series soon will appear special clamp to attach 10.5mm to M1 (M1 + lens ring 10.5+ clamp+ 10.5mm lens). But for what series M1-S or M1-L will be availible this clamp?

I think that M1 series is best choice for me but what packing list to use?
Please help.
May be advice for my conditions already is there in this forum, but reading all forum post is difficult for me (my native language is not English).

Best regards

nick fan
05-18-2011, 11:33 AM
Hello.
I'm beggining in process of creation a panoramas.
I'm very like the NodalNinja Head and want to create panoramas using this heads.
But have a question about choice of needing heads for me, what heads is more suitable for me?

My technics now: Nikon D90, Nikkor 18-200mm, Nikkor 10.5mm.
In future I want add to my equipment: Nikkor 14-24mm, Nikkor 70-200mm.
The purpose: priority - spherical panoramas at home, in cars, rooms etc, less - gigapano...
Reading information from http://www.nodalninja.com/ web-site I understand that:
- NN4 is good universal head, but not modular. It is suite for all my current and future lens and body.
- R1 and R10 is only for fisheye lens
- M1-L and M1-S - last, modern, perfect quality, comfortable heads.
- M1-L is not suitable for current 10.5mm lens, I need to byu additional shorter Upper Rail.
- M1-S is not suitable for future 70-200mm lens, I need to add longer Upper Rail.
- For M1-series soon will appear special clamp to attach 10.5mm to M1 (M1 + lens ring 10.5+ clamp+ 10.5mm lens). But for what series M1-S or M1-L will be availible this clamp?

I think that M1 series is best choice for me but what packing list to use?
Please help.
May be advice for my conditions already is there in this forum, but reading all forum post is difficult for me (my native language is not English).

Best regards

If budget allows, the best candidate is M1L. We now have pre-production offer at 25% discount. It works fine with your Nikon 10.5mm on your D90 or any cameras with 1.5x crop. Only a shaved Nikon 10.5mm on full frame DSLR need optional (inexpensive) accessory.

Nick

ElPadrino
05-24-2011, 07:13 PM
if budget allows, the best candidate is m1l. We now have pre-production offer at 25% discount. It works fine with your nikon 10.5mm on your d90 or any cameras with 1.5x crop. Only a shaved nikon 10.5mm on full frame dslr need optional (inexpensive) accessory.

Hello nick i just got the m1 l today. What is the inexpensive accessory that i need to buy to use the wide angels or fish eyes? You talk about is in the next text you did.
(if budget allows, the best candidate is m1l. We now have pre-production offer at 25% discount. It works fine with your nikon 10.5mm on your d90 or any cameras with 1.5x crop. Only a shaved nikon 10.5mm on full frame dslr need optional (inexpensive) accessory.)
nick
thank you
regards
erwin

ElPadrino
05-25-2011, 05:21 AM
Hello Any One
I am knew to the spheric panoramas, i just want to be sure i get all what i need to be ready when the M1L production is release.
Does any one know if i need some thing else beside the M1L and the R16? I am planing to shoot with the 5d & canon 15 mm in portrait mode
May be i could get a extra upper reel and cut it if if gets one the way will that help.

Vincèn
05-25-2011, 05:29 AM
An easy leveller (http://store.nodalninja.com/products/EZ-Leveler-II-with-Case.html) might be a good plus :) You just screw it between top of your tripod and M1L, and it'll allow you to get your M1L levelled in a snap ;)

Vincèn

nick fan
05-25-2011, 07:51 PM
Hello nick i just got the m1 l today. What is the inexpensive accessory that i need to buy to use the wide angels or fish eyes? You talk about is in the next text you did.
(if budget allows, the best candidate is m1l. We now have pre-production offer at 25% discount. It works fine with your nikon 10.5mm on your d90 or any cameras with 1.5x crop. Only a shaved nikon 10.5mm on full frame dslr need optional (inexpensive) accessory.)
cameras with ultra wide compact fisheye will see a significant portion of the upper rail. You can take more shots to compensate the view blocked by the upper rail. Or you can use a shorter rail or lens ring. But if you want to use a long lens and this ultra wide compact fisheye alternately, you need one more QR clamp (QRC-40B) which slides the QRC-40A on the upper rail. This clamp will be available soon at an introductory price of $49.95.

Nick

nick fan
05-25-2011, 07:51 PM
Hello nick i just got the m1 l today. What is the inexpensive accessory that i need to buy to use the wide angels or fish eyes? You talk about is in the next text you did.
(if budget allows, the best candidate is m1l. We now have pre-production offer at 25% discount. It works fine with your nikon 10.5mm on your d90 or any cameras with 1.5x crop. Only a shaved nikon 10.5mm on full frame dslr need optional (inexpensive) accessory.)
cameras with ultra wide compact fisheye will see a significant portion of the upper rail. You can take more shots to compensate the view blocked by the upper rail. Or you can use a shorter rail or lens ring. But if you want to use a long lens and this ultra wide compact fisheye alternately, you need one more QR clamp (QRC-40B) which slides the QRC-40A on the upper rail. This clamp will be available soon at an introductory price of $49.95.

Nick

ElPadrino
05-26-2011, 01:59 AM
Thank you Nick I will keep checking the store to ad it to my order when is available.

hindenhaag
05-26-2011, 08:31 AM
Hello again,

I recieved the pre M1-L the last days and already started testing for LRS and URS. I just began with D3. I will test D90 and D7000 D300s when I finished the big boys 14-24, 24-70, 70-200. Nikkor 10.5, Sigma8mm/f3.5, Samyang 8mm 3.5, Nikkor 16mmm.

Is the 18-200 VRII? Please add the model, important cause different model may change in settings. Any preferences?

For those who are waiting for the definite models, there should be some Nikon data available and "certified" to let you know what you should order in definite production line.

Heinz

ElPadrino
06-01-2011, 03:06 PM
Help
Does any one know were can i find the schematics to put together the M1-L ?
The quality is incredible the rotor clicks on the spot and the M1 L is supreme.

badders
06-01-2011, 05:06 PM
Help
Does any one know were can i find the schematics to put together the M1-L ?
The quality is incredible the rotor clicks on the spot and the M1 L is supreme.
http://www.nodalninja.com/Manuals/M1L_Installation_QRG.pdf

Or, for anyone reading this who is also attending Palmela 2011 - you might want to read up on this before tomorrow....

ElPadrino
06-07-2011, 10:49 AM
Hello Nick
I love the head but in my case i use Canon EF 24-105 F4 and when i try to take the zenith the QRC 40A knob hits the lower rail, it will be the right length if i could be able to rotate the QRC-40A knob to the opposite side. that give me 25mm more and that is all i need in my case.
I am waiting to the QRC-40B i hope this will let me put the know to the side and flip the QRC-40A to the opposite side, do you have a photo of that piece to know what is coming?
What is inside the knob? do you think i could open it from the top and remove it and put a nut ?
Thank you

nick fan
06-07-2011, 10:59 AM
Hello Nick
I love the head but in my case i use Canon EF 24-105 F4 and when i try to take the zenith the QRC 40A knob hits the lower rail, it will be the right length if i could be able to rotate the QRC-40A knob to the opposite side. that give me 25mm more and that is all i need in my case.
I am waiting to the QRC-40B i hope this will let me put the know to the side and flip the QRC-40A to the opposite side, do you have a photo of that piece to know what is coming?
What is inside the knob? do you think i could open it from the top and remove it and put a nut ?
Thank you

Nadir Adapter and QRC-40B for M1 will be shipping soon. this will solve your problem. just wait for awhile.

Nick

ElPadrino
06-07-2011, 11:17 AM
For this center aliment I'm just using the allen head screw that you can see through the lower rail slot.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head1.jpg

Here's a picture of my setup with a 15mm lens, I still need to set up the other aliment and slide my camera back a little.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head2.jpg

I have the extra rotator on lower rail for a little more height and it makes for a nice nadir adapter.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head3.jpg

I love all of the things that you can do with this new pano head!!!

Roger Berry

Hello Roger Were can i buy a rotator like the one you use to have more height?
Thank you

ElPadrino
06-07-2011, 12:01 PM
Nadir Adapter and QRC-40B for M1 will be shipping soon. this will solve your problem. just wait for awhile.

Nick

Thank you Nick
I appreciate your help.
I was thinking that to do a complete modular head, you should do in stead of your vertical rail a vertical clamp that can hold any rail. and discard the vertical rail that have the clamp atached, this can be screw as will be the most important support. Like this we could buy a head to our length needs, but all the other parts screw the same in any rail. This will be the ultimate head as people will buy only more rails if they want 30cm or 10 cm.

Do this before some one else does.

nick fan
06-08-2011, 01:58 AM
Thank you Nick
I appreciate your help.
I was thinking that to do a complete modular head, you should do in stead of your vertical rail a vertical clamp that can hold any rail. and discard the vertical rail that have the clamp atached, this can be screw as will be the most important support. Like this we could buy a head to our length needs, but all the other parts screw the same in any rail. This will be the ultimate head as people will buy only more rails if they want 30cm or 10 cm.

Do this before some one else does.

I am not sure I understand your words correctly. you mean I should make rails so that they can be used vertically or horizontally? Surely we can do that. But what is the advantage apart of the "truely modular" idea? The is not a saving in cost, size or weight. You will better understand my choice of design when the M2 is out. :-)


Nick

deedee7
06-12-2011, 02:20 PM
I have the extra rotator on lower rail for a little more height and it makes for a nice nadir adapter.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/head3.jpg
Hi. Great idea! Is the extra rotator FANOTEC make? Is it at least 3cm thick, so I could shoot zenith with nikon 14-24mm?
Thank you.

nick fan
06-23-2011, 07:49 AM
Hi. Great idea! Is the extra rotator FANOTEC make? Is it at least 3cm thick, so I could shoot zenith with nikon 14-24mm?
Thank you.
http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=197&d=1307549307
this is the nadir adapter. compact, light weight and rock solid.

Nick

deedee7
06-23-2011, 08:12 AM
OK, Nick - looks good. You think you can get it out by the end of summer?

hindenhaag
06-23-2011, 10:00 AM
Hi,

I recognize everybody is eager to have a look at the M1 Nadir Adapter.

A tiny nice little block, rock solid, easy to use. It raises the vertical rail by 35mm and gives enough space for zenith shots.:rockon:

And at this moment a great thx to all of the Nodal Ninja Guys and Nick himself to go on and on to develop the Fanotec lines and get the hardware to your customers. :clap:

I used the big boys: D3, Nikkor 14-24 @zoom 14 with an URS=upper rail set 143, D3 with curved camera plate with an LRS = lower rail set of 25.

Be aware the I use a very early Pre Production M1-Model, so the numbers on the rail are changed in the newer versions!!

To help Nick to get pictures, I took some pictures in between this afternoon.

201207200202206205203204 ©2011 hindenhaag

Hope this helps a little bit, I would not order an M1 without the M1 Nadir Adapter.

I feel this is a good solution to get enough vertical hight for Zenith shots by using a shorter vertical rail on top of the Nadir Adapter. A longer vertical rail for Zenith Shots to be used on top of the Nadir Adapter would add a lot more torque to the system. I feel this is a very good solution of Nicks design.

Nick, you should be aware to have the same number of M1 as of M1-NadirAdapters in stock.:th_wink:

Cheers and till soon,
Heinz

nick fan
06-23-2011, 07:54 PM
OK, Nick - looks good. You think you can get it out by the end of summer?

To be released in July.

Nick

hindenhaag
06-23-2011, 11:05 PM
Some Info about the use of the Nadir Adapter:

Principally the same for NN3, NN4, NN5, M1. You have to measure PD = Pivot Distance. This is the distance between Rotation Center of the Rotator RD8, RD16, NN3 MKII and the Pivot Point of the Nadir Adapter which is placed in LRS = Lower Rail Setting. "The Point where the Adapter is turned around".
You shoot Nadir1 in closed position of the Nadir Adapter. When you open up the Nadir Adapter, the Lens Axis has been moved by DPD = Double Pivot Distance. To take Nadir2, you have to bring back the Lens Axis into the position of Nadir1. Consequence: you have to move the tripod sideways in direction of the third leg by minimum DPD to shoot Nadir2.

Safe workflow: shoot Nadir1, move Tripod by DPD, now open Nadir Adapter for Nadir2, shoot, close Nadir Adapter to bring back the camera in "safe" position. If moving tripod by DPD does not create enough free space between tip of third leg of Nadir1 and corner of Nadir Adapter in Nadir2, you have to move further on.

208209210 ©2011 hindenhaag

Cheers,
Heinz

deedee7
06-30-2011, 07:33 AM
Thank you Nick and Heinz. Looks like the nadir adapter solves the 14-24 problem :) I wonder if it also solves the problem for 24-70 ?

hindenhaag
06-30-2011, 08:39 AM
DeeDee,

What camera body do you use? Since the 210mm rail is on the way since yesterday from my favorite reseller Vincen / SkiVR FR close to NL, I will test it specially for you when it arrives and I will take Pics from the setup for you. Why?

"You have specially been chosen from the database and you are lucky to be the person to receive the response with number 1000. Response will be for free to make you happy with Nodal Ninja Products":clap:

Hey, just a joke, but I like to say that I am quiet happy to take my private time to try to help NN Friends on the road to use great quality products at state of art as quick as possible.

I myself am a type of "buy, plug and shoot type". Conclusion, the forum tries to get you on the road as quick as possible.

" You'll get a definite response for free cause you are response number 1000 ":clap::thumbup1:

Thx to everybody of Nodal Ninja, specially Bill, and of course to Fanotec, it is Nick as" the one and only" who listens and designs new hardware, as well as our European Distributors Andrew, Mauro and last but not least Vincen for helping the customers far beyond normal support.

Kind regards.
Heinz

deedee7
06-30-2011, 09:10 AM
Wow - 1000 posts! Keep up the good work Heinz! As for the body, I have a D700 w/grip.

hindenhaag
06-30-2011, 10:54 AM
Thx Dee Dee,

Be sure I will go on. Cause I like NN and the friends on the forum.

A short consequence of using a grip : you will get a higher LRS = lower rail setting with a higher torque to the system. So you have to re level the system to be in level.

What is the profit of a battery grip? Quicker frames per second, more battery power. Towards the torque on the system. A second fully charged battery in your backpack and there is no need of a battery grip.

A better way to walk around the "bottle neck" during bracketing set up is to use a high speed CF Card with 90mb/sec for example and get rid off the higher torque. This is my personal experience. It also saves a lot of time to back up the info at home.

Even with battery grip using a bracketing setup you might feel the camera is stopping to shoot the last two shots of the bracketing set up. Why? Cause it takes time to store info on the CF card. Meanwhile you are waiting to get the storage ready and the camera will take the last two shots, everything might have changed on site: cars have moved, people are walking around to another place, trees or water with waves have moved.

For me, the better solution is to raise ISO to get shorter shutter speed, high performance CF card and to get along without battery grip. Does not matter if 9/11 pics per second, the last bottle neck is the buffer of the camera shooting in CH mode.

And let me tell you, with or without battery grip, once you get to the bottle neck of storing infos to the CF card and camera inside buffer, you will be stopped. Does not matter with or without a battery grip. This is my personal experience with D700 and even with D3 combined with Sandisk Extreme Pro with 90 mbps. Taking multi row panos with bracketing shots.

There are a lot of guys out there who like the battery grip, for me personally, I do not like it. To me there is no sense to wait for the last 2 pics/second to be backed up to CF card because of the real bottle neck. Storing as quick as possible with a high speed CF card will really be in advantage of the profits of a battery grip.

Cheers,
Heinz

deedee7
06-30-2011, 11:43 AM
I'm not saying that I'll be using D700 w/grip for panos. It's just that I normally have it always attached. Probably,I won't be even using 14-24 or even more so 24-70 all that often for panos. Still, since I already own these lenses I might be tempted to give it a try one day. I'll be getting D3s soon so, it'll be similar size to the D700 w/grip. My question stands: Does the nadir adapter solve the issue for the 24-70 on D700 without the grip (or D3s) ?

Vincèn
06-30-2011, 07:21 PM
What camera body do you use? Since the 210mm rail is on the way since yesterday from my favorite reseller Vincen / SkiVR FR close to NL, I will test it specially for you when it arrives and I will take Pics from the setup for you.
Will be at your home today ;)

Vincèn

hindenhaag
07-01-2011, 09:34 AM
Vincen, you are so bloody right.:th_cool: I got the whole parcel in safe order.:clap:

Opening the parcel I did not succeed to reach the parts. Someone inside was fighting with swords to keep me away from them.:th_Jttesur::th_o:. Showing my order papers to him, I succeeded.

This new Nodal Ninjian is really a tough guy.! (parcel included a Ninja Fighter 5x4 cm to protect the products).

Thx to your extraordinary service Vincen, I can test the nikkor 24-70/f2.8 with D3 with the 210mm upper lower rail _M1 for those who are waiting for results.:wink:.

Plus the Zenith Nadir Adapter for R1 and the stop set for the 10.5 fisheye lens for R1.

Enough to do.

Thx once again and cheers,
Heinz

BTW: Do you know why France won't get the efforts to shut down all nuclear energy plants like Germany? Cause Sarkozy is to small in height to be able to reach the switch:offtopic:

hindenhaag
07-05-2011, 02:04 AM
Hi and welcome to the forum,

a month ago EVI out BE was asking for a panohead. http://www.panoguide.com/forums/qna/9393/ clicking on EVI you can see the profile and can send an IM.

My experience with our resellers in NL: when they have to order something, it will take weeks to get it. The better stock and delivery is cameranu.nl, Foto Konijnenberg is just second choice.

The best choice to get your hardware as quick as possible in our area is Vincen, french distributor, in Grenoble. Great stock, he gets new equipment continuously in short periods of time, great knowledge, great panorama shooter. I had to wait for MFR 210mm 1 week, 2days of delivery from France to NL. www.magasin/skivr

Success,
Heinz

zwaagmw
07-06-2011, 10:43 AM
For the people thinking "what is heinz talking about in the post above......"

Explanation: Heinz is replying to my fist post on this board, which has for some dark reasons disappeared after a day.

I probably offered my Nodal Ninja Ultimate M1-L with RD16 to cheap on ebay. I will not post the link again, otherwise this post will get deleted as well. You easily find it (Only one NN from belgium on ebay)

Anyhow, i will introduce myself (again). I'm new to the forum and just got my hands on a NN M1-L.

Marvelous quality although the downside is the weight which does not make it easy for travelling, which i really like to do.

I working with a D3 and a 14-24mm nikkor, which is to big for a zenith shot. The M1 nadir will change this.

I read in old post that Nick Fan thought the M1 Nadir should be available in july 2011. Now it that month, maybee Nick can tell us more please. Will the M1 nadir be available very soon? Thank you



Setting up and getting the right settings for the M1-L is much more difficult as i thought it would be.

I used several methods and my last 'the grid method', but i still keep small stitching errors although PTgui gives me Optimizer results "This is very good" of "This is good". I'm puzzeld about this and think it must be the setting on the tripod head which are wrong.

I'm using a Kirk BL-D3 (L-bracket) on my D3

I matched the L-bracht midpoint with camera to the midpoint on the clamp on the upper rail and should be in the middle.

I use a lower rail setting of 18,2 and an upper rail setting 14,6

Any one with a similiar setup? What are your LRS en URS?

Tips for the L-bracket to be in the right spot on the clamp? How do you avoid shifting the L-Bracket to high or to low on the clamp when attathing the camera to the tripod head.

Thanks

Bill Bailey
07-06-2011, 12:47 PM
For the people thinking "what is heinz talking about in the post above......"
Explanation: Heinz is replying to my fist post on this board, which has for some dark reasons disappeared after a day.

Hi zwaagmw,
Your post was more for the selling of your M1L so we merely moved it to the classified section of the forum. You can see the thread here:
http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/showthread.php?4495-M1L-w-RD16

Best
Bill

zwaagmw
07-06-2011, 09:12 PM
Thanks Bill

Cheers

deedee7
07-18-2011, 03:26 PM
Hey Heinz.
How are your tests with the nikkor 24-70/f2.8 going?

zakato
09-30-2011, 01:46 AM
Hello there group!

I am thinking about getting a new head mainly for gigapan takes. I'm planning to use it with a 5D (hopefully mkiii in a near future) and right now either with a Canon EF 100mm USM macro or the rather big Canon EF 28-300 L IS USM.

Will the new M series be a good choice for this?

One other thing i don't have too clear is the 7.5 degree "positive" stops of the upper rotator. Does this mean that these are "lockable" stops?

Any other suggestions for this setup?

thanks a lot!

Antonio

nick fan
09-30-2011, 08:27 AM
Hello there group!

I am thinking about getting a new head mainly for gigapan takes. I'm planning to use it with a 5D (hopefully mkiii in a near future) and right now either with a Canon EF 100mm USM macro or the rather big Canon EF 28-300 L IS USM.

Will the new M series be a good choice for this?

One other thing i don't have too clear is the 7.5 degree "positive" stops of the upper rotator. Does this mean that these are "lockable" stops?

Any other suggestions for this setup?

thanks a lot!

Antonio

The M1 will support focal length up to 200mm. The upper rotator has 7.5 deg interval and is locked at each interval.

Nick

zakato
11-16-2011, 12:08 AM
The M1 will support focal length up to 200mm. The upper rotator has 7.5 deg interval and is locked at each interval.

Nick

Hi there!

I have a couple of more questions regarding the ultimate m for gigapanning.

Can the vertical lock be freed? (as in NN5) Say that for framing reasons sometimes I like to start my gigapan tilt at -2.5 and then increment by 7.5º steps (this is NN5 style for 200mm).

What would then be the mininal vertical increment? From what i see in the photos there are fixed marks every 7.5º but also I've seen two little calibration marks that should allow +- 7.5/2 ? ... is this right? Is the minimun vertical increment then 3.75º if unlocked?

I've read that the ultimate m2 will account for 400mm lenses ... any ninja-leaks about this?

thanks a lot ... your help will be much appreciated,

Antonio

Vincèn
11-16-2011, 12:17 AM
Can the vertical lock be freed? (as in NN5) Say that for framing reasons sometimes I like to start my gigapan tilt at -2.5 and then increment by 7.5º steps (this is NN5 style for 200mm).
nope the vertical lock is fixed and can't be released as with NN5 !


I've read that the ultimate m2 will account for 400mm lenses ... any ninja-leaks about this?
M2 should include an upper lock with smaller steps, but not much details for now have leaked !

Vincèn

zakato
11-16-2011, 12:32 AM
Thanks Vincèn ;) ... help much appreciated! ... my NN5vsM1 starts to make sense!

So I'll assume then that the minimal vertical step for m1 is 7.5º (starting at 0º) ... just out of curiosity, what are the two little calibration marks then for?

cheers!

Antonio

Vincèn
11-16-2011, 01:21 AM
So I'll assume then that the minimal vertical step for m1 is 7.5º (starting at 0º)
right :)


... just out of curiosity, what are the two little calibration marks then for
are you referering to the two little marks aside of the main mark on fixed part of rotator ? if so it's just for design, no real utility from what I know ;)

Vincèn

hindenhaag
11-16-2011, 08:24 AM
Antonio,

The only upper rotator in the whole NN program which has possible manual 2,5º steps is NN5.

Works fine with 70-200/f2.8 for example.

Heinz

May be someone is going to try to kill me: :blush:

If your normal set up is to start at -2.5º and then take 7.5º interval, the only thing you need to do is to change the position of the Upper rail clamp QRC55 in set up to the rotator. That means the position of the two M3 Anti Twist screws should be replaced to -2.5 position. To keep your warrenty you might think about adding a small plate in between QRC55 and Rotator base. One side with antitwist screws in normal position to go to the rotator, in the other side with wholes for the Anti Twist screw of QRC-55 in -2,5º. So if you use the big boy, just add the plate and you start at -2,5º. That would give the M1 a chance for your own wishes and workflow. Of course you have to get a longer screw for QRC-55 to Rotator with the plate in between.:th_wink: Thickness of the plate would be the height of the M3 Anti Twist Screw's head. Am I right?

And then I would go for the M1-L.

zakato
11-16-2011, 01:00 PM
Thanks Prof. hindenhaag!
(I love seeing your NN setups! ... they are always so explanatory&constructive! ... cheers!)

Though for this m1 mod I'm gonna have to read it more carefully! ;)

Anyway, I think I'll go for NN5 for the time being ... it already has the flexibility I want (+ is small&light).

I'll keep and eye, anyhow, on the m1 (and m2).

thanks!

Antonio

raymo
01-26-2012, 02:53 AM
Hello!

I have just ordered the M1-L, and while I am an experienced panographer, it will be my first proper pano head.

On about page 4, there was discussion about this head not being able to shoot a true +90 degree zenith with some or all camera & lens configurations, unless you use the nadir adapter.

Will I be able to shoot a true +90 degree zenith on the M1-L, without nadir adapter, with my D90 & 10.5mm?

EDIT: Further, will I be able to shoot at 0, -7.5 and +90 degrees without any of the equipment being in shot?

It's a shame I can only choose -7.5 and -15 degrees. That's quite a jump. -7.5 is sometimes not enough, and -15 is quite excessive, at least with the 10.5mm.
/edit

Kind Regards

hindenhaag
01-26-2012, 04:48 AM
Raymo,

I will check it for you this evening and let you know about it.

Heinz

raymo
01-26-2012, 05:48 AM
Thanks Heinz.

In case it makes a difference, I will be using the camera plate CP-U3.

hindenhaag
01-26-2012, 07:14 AM
Raymo,

I just had some minutes to check it on the rails: M1-L, CP-U3 D90, Nikkor 10.5. no Nadir Adapter. It will work for you to shoot zenith shot at +90º with an upper rail setting up to 118mm. To know for other lenses beside 10.5. Beyond this, you have to shoot 2x +60º 180º visa versa because camera will bump into lower rail.

D90 and nikkor 10.5 or 16mm won't show the upper rail in picture. URS = Upper rail setting for D90 10.5 is 78mm, so plenty of room for the zenith. Only Sigma 8mm/f3.5 and Samyang 8mm/f3.5 will show the upper rail in the viewfinder, but not in the stitched panorama.

In case you really need something in between -15/-7.5º pitch and in case you are a little bit handy and have some machines, you could add an adapter plate in between upper rotator clamp and upper rotator. You could try to add additional steps like -5º or -10º by drilling in Anti Twist Screw Sockets for those of the upper rotator clamp. It would be a round alum plate in diameter of upper rotator. Thickness 5mm to take the thread of the new Anti Twist Screw.. On the side of the rotator you add two anti twist screws standing out of the plate using the rotators anti twist screw sockets. May be you have to get a longer center screw to fix the clamp to upper rotator. May be you know somebody who can do this for you.

You have to try the settings on your own right now, cause my settings are all done with Nadir Adapter. This means another vertical rail set up as well.

Add-on: http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/showthread.php?4690-Some-Basics-about-new-Fanotec-Camera-Plates-CP-U2-U3-U4

Hope this helps a little bit :001_cool:,
feel free to ask,
Heinz

hindenhaag
01-26-2012, 10:27 AM
The links to find settings on your own:

http://www.easypano.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=4162
http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/showthread.php?4311-Ulitmate-M-Series-Pano-Heads&p=36300#post36300

Success,
Heinz

raymo
01-26-2012, 03:23 PM
Thanks Heinz. That's good news.

I see you have the D90 and 10.5mm amongst your vast collection. You say that the URS for this config is 78mm; what LRS do you use? (Edit: Since you have the D300s, maybe you don't use the D90 on the M1) Even though I don't have the nadir adapter, my settings should be the same as yours because the nadir adapter just extends the vertical rail height, along the rotational axis, right?

I will use Smooth's buzz saw method to confirm my settings, but it'd be good to have a decent starting point.

Thanks.

hindenhaag
01-26-2012, 10:52 PM
My LRS is different because I use a different set up in the vertical rail to get greatest extension on the lower rail using the Nadir Adapter.

http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/showthread.php?4635-Different-Setup-of-Upper-Rotator-and-Vertical-Rail-for-M1-L-with-and-without-Nadir-Adapter

Comparing set ups will be difficult cause we have to exactly know what set up is used. I'll will remount my M1-L to try to get exact measurements with / without use of Nadir Adapter this afternoon. I will let you know.

Normally I use D3. Lighter cameras on pole. Not so much money in case you crash, plus less torque in 6m height. So easier to handle. Now I use D7000 on top of it instead of D90.

So long,
Heinz

John Houghton
01-26-2012, 11:54 PM
... it'd be good to have a decent starting point.
You really don't need anybody else's settings to start with. It takes about one minute to adjust the LRS to within a mm or so by pointing the camera down and adjusting the rail position so that the centre focus spot in the viewfinder is on the centre screw of the pano head.

John

raymo
01-27-2012, 12:01 AM
Actually don't worry about it thanks mate.. you're right, it's hard to exactly know, and I need to confirm it anyway so there's not much point wasting your time. :)

I received the head today, surprisingly. I have assembled it, pulled my square out and think I have it pretty well dialled in. But I'm not sure about the exact location of the NPP on the 10.5mm. 2mm or 3mm behind the gold ring?

I just see your post John, yes I agree. Thanks for the suggestion re. pointing down.

I will do the first test pano shortly.

First impressions: The strength, build quality and finish of this head is absolutely stunning. The dove-tails are exceptional. The RD8 is confidence inspiring. The whole rig is so solid and tight. Quick release plates are ultra tough. Well done Nick, I am highly impressed.

With that said, so far I'm not a big fan of the upper rotator. Like I said earlier, -7.5 degrees can often be not quite enough, yet -15 degrees is in my opinion quite excessive, at least with the 10.5mm. I'm getting a lot of the lower rail in frame, and, unfortunately I was sent a 65mm lower rail clamp, so it is in frame too. I will replace it with a 55mm. What's more, I just don't need that small of a nadir footprint.. especially at the expense of the zenith. -7.5 is good for most shoots, but -10 or probably -12 would be ideal for tight spaces.

DennisS
01-27-2012, 08:27 AM
I'm getting a lot of the lower rail in frame
If your final stitch does not have the lower rail in the picture, there is not a problem. I have the lower rail in all my pictures taken on the M1. The final panorama does not have the lower rail visible anywhere.

hindenhaag
01-27-2012, 08:48 AM
Raymo,

what do you really like, -10 or -12 degree, or both of them?

Heinz

nick fan
01-27-2012, 11:56 PM
With that said, so far I'm not a big fan of the upper rotator. Like I said earlier, -7.5 degrees can often be not quite enough, yet -15 degrees is in my opinion quite excessive, at least with the 10.5mm. I'm getting a lot of the lower rail in frame, and, unfortunately I was sent a 65mm lower rail clamp, so it is in frame too. I will replace it with a 55mm. What's more, I just don't need that small of a nadir footprint.. especially at the expense of the zenith. -7.5 is good for most shoots, but -10 or probably -12 would be ideal for tight spaces.

Ok, I will offer a workaround to allow you to offset the horizon by ~3 deg, then you can get -10 deg. But you will get same offset in every interval, including the zenith/ nadir shot. I hope it won't be a new problem for you.

Nick

raymo
01-29-2012, 06:03 PM
If your final stitch does not have the lower rail in the picture, there is not a problem. I have the lower rail in all my pictures taken on the M1. The final panorama does not have the lower rail visible anywhere.
Hi Dennis. I will get the 55mm clamp and see how much of that is visible, and how much of the rotator shows, if at all, after the clamp change. No equipment is visible in the stitch, but I thought that if your equipment can be seen at extreme angles, the extreme angle is made pointless. I think that holds true but only for equipment seen at the centre bottom, because the sides can be replaced by the centre of the next image. I suspect that once I replace my 65mm lower clamp with a 55mm one, all of the -15 stitched will show only a very small bit of the clamp/rotator.

PS I came across a post of yours where you showed a long rail mounted to tripod for nadir -
http://www.dlsphoto.net/Panoguide/1st_attempt.jpg
It looks so much like my solution. Don't you use it at all any more? Do you prefer the M1 nadir adapter? What about shadows? My rail is quite long, and I like the flexibility of being able to shoot from a greater height if need be. And with PTGui's viewpoint correction, that's not a problem any more.
PPS I've had a good look at the panos on your site, and I really like the Yosemite ones, well done. :) Nice implementation of HDR.

I have done a test pano in my shed, where there is plenty of detail, straight lines and roof structure to test NPP. I got a perfect stitch.
http://raymo.com.au/panoramas/shed-20120128/
I tried both -7.5 and -15, and both stitched as easily as each other. I slightly prefer -7.5 for this scene, but I would need to use a greater angle for tighter scenes ie next to furniture in a hotel room.

Heinz, the jury's still out on that one. I'll see how things go over the next few weeks with the M1 using -7.5 and -15. My gut feeling says -12 is good and better than -15, but once I reduce the clamp footprint, I might prefer -15 after all. We'll see.

Nick, thanks for such an excellent product, well done.
I don't know if there are others that want less than -15, but please don't worry about it on my account. Thanks for the offer either way. As said above, I'll see how things pan out. Oh yeah, affecting the zenith ~3 degrees isn't ideal, although I could live with it.

DennisS
01-29-2012, 06:30 PM
PS I came across a post of yours where you showed a long rail mounted to tripod for nadir -
http://www.dlsphoto.net/Panoguide/1st_attempt.jpg
It looks so much like my solution. Don't you use it at all any more? Do you prefer the M1 nadir adapter? What about shadows? My rail is quite long, and I like the flexibility of being able to shoot from a greater height if need be. And with PTGui's viewpoint correction, that's not a problem any more.

That was my very first attempt at a Nadir adapter. I was testing to see if the camera would work being held out and pointed down. I refined the design, pulling the camera in closer and closer until I required a minimum swing distance. I used this home made version before I recieved the M1 pano head:
http://www.dlsphoto.net/NadarBracket/1.JPG

I have started using the M1. There is some more modifications I need to do before I am 100% satisfied with the M1.

For shadows I take multiple exposures with the tripod in different positions. This gives me plenty of "material" to work with when masking/stitching. I take a final hand held Nadir patch shot with the camera held out of position.

PTGui does do a wonderful job with its built in masking and viewpoint correction.


PPS I've had a good look at the panos on your site, and I really like the Yosemite ones, well done. :) Nice implementation of HDR. Thanks for the compliment. The last "Yosemite" and "Fall Colors along the Eastern Sierra" series were all done with RAW. I did HDR on a few of the earlier Yosemite series before I converted over to RAW. I now prefer RAW to HDR any day.

benben82
10-10-2012, 06:25 AM
Hello everybody

i plan to buy a new Pano Head an im thinkin of a NN M1
i'm affraid if the upper rail might be to long for my Canon 5D III with the 8-15mm Fish - anybody here who could test this?

nick fan
10-10-2012, 10:51 AM
Hello everybody

i plan to buy a new Pano Head an im thinkin of a NN M1
i'm affraid if the upper rail might be to long for my Canon 5D III with the 8-15mm Fish - anybody here who could test this?

presumably not a problem. John Houghton uses this lens on 5D II.
http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/NN-M1-precision-tt4592677.html#a4598867


Nick

John Houghton
10-11-2012, 12:36 AM
presumably not a problem. John Houghton uses this lens on 5D II.
Nick
The long rail is only a problem with fisheye lenses if the quick release clamp is mounted at the end of the rail. The solution is to mount the QR clamp on a clamp that slides along the upper rail instead. I've used the QR-40B for this purpose. You can also attach the ring mount from an RD1/10 directly on the clamp of the upper rotator. Either way, a part of the upper rotator will inevitably intrude a little into one side of the image circle. This is not usually a significant problem and only affects the shorter focal lengths <11mm with the camera in portrait orientation.
.
John