Coming Soon: Foot Plate for Using Rotator at the Base of Pole [Archive] - Nodal Ninja Forum

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nick fan
12-07-2010, 07:08 PM
As part of the pole systems, Fanotec is releasing a light-weight foot plate for using a click-stop rotator at the base of pole.

http://www.pbase.com/digital_initiatives/image/130880373/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/digital_initiatives/image/130880375/original.jpg

The foot plate allows Fanotec Rotators (RD4/8/12/16 and forthcoming compact pole rotator) to be attached to the base of pole. It features a spring loaded tilting mechanism for use on uneven ground with a slope up to 30 degrees.

When used with spikes it will grip any rough surfaces such as rocks or concrete surfaces and prevent the rotator from moving. Photographers will no longer need to guess the angle of rotation for each shot. Precise rotation intervals are possible by using a click-stop rotator. This will help expedite the pano taking process.

The spikes are removable and can be stored on the plate when not in use. The base of the foot plate has rubber pads. This allows the foot plate to be used on smooth surfaces or places where spikes are prohibited. Photographers can simply step on the foot plate to prevent it from moving.

The foot plate will have an introductory price of $49.95. It will be available in Jan/Feb 2011.

A sealed, compact, low cost pole rotator is also under development. It will have an introductory offer of $49.95 and will be available in Jan/Feb 2011.



Acknowledgement: This foot plate is based on home-made version of Wim Koornneef, a talented tinkerer and designer.

badders
12-08-2010, 01:31 AM
OOOH! Nice!

Wim.Koornneef
12-08-2010, 03:37 AM
Hello Forum,

From experience I can tell that the footplate and the rotator at the bottom end of the pole will make the shoot much more relaxed then without.
Without a rotator you often shoot many more images then needed "just to be on the safe side", hence the shoot and the processing afterwards will take much more time then needed.

When the spikes are mounted on the footplate it is possible, depending on the structure of the ground, to rotate the pole without any need to step on the footplate, the springloaded footplate will press itself against the ground (*) and the spikes will holding it in a firm position.
(*) You don't have to press the pole to the ground, the weight of the gear is enough to press the footplate to the ground.

You can choose to walk around the pole when rotating to keep yourself out of sight or to keep a steady position and only rotate the pole, whatever method you choose when using the footplate the shoot will be relaxed.

Here are some pano examples shot with a Fanotec pole, a footplate, a Fanotec R-D4 rotator and a Fanotec R1 lens ring on top of the pole.
All panos are shot 6 around with a Canon 5D+Tokina 10-17 set @14,8mm tilt -15 degree and set @12,2mm tilt 0 degree, lens is approx. 10 mm shifted forwards out of NPP to reduce the footprint of the pole.

http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/margraten_cemetery_memorial_23102010/image_001.html

Happy pole shooting greetings,
Wim

nick fan
12-08-2010, 08:27 AM
When the spikes are mounted on the footplate it is possible, depending on the structure of the ground, to rotate the pole without any need to step on the footplate, the springloaded footplate will press itself against the ground (*) and the spikes will holding it in a firm position.
(*) You don't have to press the pole to the ground, the weight of the gear is enough to press the footplate to the ground.

You can choose to walk around the pole when rotating to keep yourself out of sight or to keep a steady position and only rotate the pole, whatever method you choose when using the footplate the shoot will be relaxed.


Hi Wim,

Thanks a lot for explaining how the foot plate functions.
A big thank again for sharing your briliant design idea with Fanotec and hence people in need of this accessory.

Nick

DemonDuck
12-08-2010, 08:38 AM
How well does it work in snow or soft sand or muddy conditions?

nick fan
12-08-2010, 09:00 AM
How well does it work in snow or soft sand or muddy conditions?

not sure. it may require a longer spike for anti-rotation. A sealed rotator is needed for muddy condition.

Nick

Wim.Koornneef
12-08-2010, 09:54 AM
How well does it work in snow or soft sand or muddy conditions?

If the long blunt spike that is included isn't holding in sand or snow (this depends on the structure of the sand or snow) then a long pin (*) that is pushed in the ground against the side of the footplate will prevent rotation.
(*) The pin can be anything, an old screwdriver, a strong wooden stick, you get the idea. For safety reasons it is better not to replace the long blunt spike by a very long spike but to use a seperate pin instead.

For a real muddy ground you need a support base, f.i. a small multiplex wooden tile or something like that, to prevent that the rotator will sink in the mud.
As Nick already explained for such conditions you also need a sealed rotator so it is not wise to use the R-D4/8/16 rotators in this condition.
BTW, to protect the rotator from dust in all situations it is best to close the not used detent sockets, the rubber plugs available for the R-D4/8/16 rotators are suited for this.

Wim

spiritburner
12-09-2010, 08:57 AM
Looks great, any idea when the extension poles will be ready please?

Neil

nick fan
12-09-2010, 05:22 PM
Looks great, any idea when the extension poles will be ready please?

Neil

extension poles for Series 1 pole? probably in Feb.

nick

keko
12-10-2010, 02:27 AM
Hi, I just ordered a Pole Series 1 and I am really satisfied with the product.
I noticed at the bottom of the specification page that Important Safety Notes states:


Fanotec poles are NOT designed to be mounted onto a rigid tripod. The pole base can be damaged by the added torque generated with the use of camera and lens at full extension. We are developing dedicated accessories for safe use with tripods.

Now my questions is: why is it ok on footplate rotator and not on a tripod?

Wim.Koornneef
12-10-2010, 03:20 AM
Hi, I just ordered a Pole Series 1 and I am really satisfied with the product.
I noticed at the bottom of the specification page that Important Safety Notes states:

Now my questions is: why is it ok on footplate rotator and not on a tripod?

Hello Keko,

First a short explanation to prevent any misunderstanding.
When mounting a pole on a tripod, other then using a dedicated adapter like the one that will be released by Fanotec early next year, the sideway force on the pole (caused by wind, movement of the tripod, excentric gravity point, etc) will cause bending forces at the connection of tripod and pole.
Due to the weight of the gear and the spread of the legs a tripod is standing in a fixed position on the ground so all bending forces on the pole will be fully applied to the connectors.
Depending on the height of the pole the bending force can be really huge so it can happen that the connectors of the tripod and or pole will break, tear off etc.
Apart from the damage to tripod and pole it is also possible that the camera will fall on the ground with safety risks and damage of the camera as well.

When a rotator is mounted between tripod and pole then the bending forces as explained above will also be applied on the rotator. Panohead rotators are developed to withstand large vertical forces but they can only withstand a limited amount of bending forces hence when mounted between a tripod and a pole it can happen that the bending forces will also destroy the rotator.

To overcome the bending force limitation of a panohead rotator Fanotec will release early next year a dedicated pole rotator that is capable to handle large bending forces.

Now the answer to your question.
When a rotator and a footplate are mounted at the bottom of a pole then there are no bending forces possible on the connection between pole, rotator and footplate, this is because the mounting plate will wobble on the ground when you move the pole sideways in all directions.
Only when the footplate would be hammered with nails or mounted with screws on the floor to make a fixed free stand then bending forces will be applied again to all parts but then the footplate is used in a bad way....

I can assure you when you use the pole handheld with a rotator and a footplate then there are no risks of damaging the pole, rotator or footplate when you use the pole in a way it is designed for.

Of course there are other issues that you have to take care off when using a pole.
For instance, the pole is made of carbon fibre, carbon is a very good electrical conductor so when you hit an unprotected electrical wire with a high voltage then for sure there is a huge safety risk.
In all situations where people are around or objects close by you have to take care that you don't harm people or damage objects and when using a footplate then you have to take care that you remove the spikes when the surface of the ground is vulnarable for dents and scratches.

When you use common sense and take the safety risks in account then I am sure you will like your Series 1 pole a lot and that you will never regret buying it.

Happy pole shooting greetings,
Wim

hindenhaag
12-10-2010, 06:26 AM
Wim and Keko,

I'd like to give an addition to all the very good explanation: I use the pole, either on monopod or baby tripod or normal tripod by touching the pole in front of my face to turn it on the rotator. This means, my hands are helping against the stress of bending forces. Using a very steady tripod, the height of it is limited by the length of the pole with shortest length, my body and the length of my arms.

I use : tripod, Arca style QRS, plate fitted to bottom of rotator, either R1 splitted rotator or Rd 16 rotator, pole fix to rotator, mini quick release system on top of pole. This means, I have one mini QRS on top of the pole, plate on top of rotator, miniclamp fixed to top of R1 with camera lens ring mounted to the top of this. So opening up the mini clamp, I have a free camera combination. Next QRS is the pole rotator section: So having raised my tripod to a height near my hips, I add the pole rotator section and level it. I choose for a height of this system that I easily can add my camera on top and still am able to raise the pole segments as well.

When turning to the next stop, I always add my hand in front of my face to the pole, you can easily turn to the next stop at that position. After reaching the next stop, I fix the detend and the fixing knob of the rotator when pole is at full length to take of bending stress from the rotator.

Till now I tested this combi with pole at full length with D90 nikkor 10.5. With not too heavy winds. Keeping at least one hand on the pole, I had no problem. But you have to be careful, at own risk of weight and height.

Cheers
Heinz

Cameleer
01-26-2011, 09:21 PM
Any update on these foot plates yet.
I want one asap for a pole with a twin camera setup I'm working on.

Roger

nick fan
01-27-2011, 09:15 AM
Any update on these foot plates yet.
I want one asap for a pole with a twin camera setup I'm working on.

Roger

available next week.

Nick

Cameleer
02-02-2011, 04:34 AM
available next week.

Nick

It’s next week, can I get a Pole footplate now?
And will the Rotator Knob Set for RD16 work with the RD4 rotator? I’m thinking of getting the RD4 rotator and adding some extra stops to it. This way I can keep things lightweight, small and still have the extra stops that I will be needing for shooting 3D panos.

I love taking things apart and modifying them.

Roger

hindenhaag
02-02-2011, 06:23 AM
Hi,

will be available when you can order on NN store. Not far to go.

One question to get things right: What do you like to use? New foot plate, RD4 on top, and then? Using RD4 as shown in Nick's picture, will offer the normal 3'8" female, or with the additional 3/8"to 1/4" screw as another option.

Using a Fanotec pole, this can be added to the RD4 with the included 3/8 screw. Sorry I do not understand the RD16 connection.

Regards,
Heinz

nick fan
02-02-2011, 08:04 AM
It’s next week, can I get a Pole footplate now?
And will the Rotator Knob Set for RD16 work with the RD4 rotator? I’m thinking of getting the RD4 rotator and adding some extra stops to it. This way I can keep things lightweight, small and still have the extra stops that I will be needing for shooting 3D panos.

I love taking things apart and modifying them.

Roger

they are on the way to USA store (takes 4-5 working days), together with new pole rotators. The pole rotator is smaller, lighter than RD4 and sealed from dust and mud. It has stronger detent optimized for extra weight of pole. It is more suitable for use on waist level, vertically and horizontaly. There are 3 models initially, each has one shooting interval at 36 deg, 45 deg or 60 deg. Model with other interval can be made upon request. Introductory price for pole rotator is just $49.95 each.
RD16 can also be mounted with optional adapter which serves as a protecting bumper. Without this adapter, the footplate can only bend downwards, less convenient to use.

Nick

Cameleer
02-02-2011, 08:20 PM
Hi,

will be available when you can order on NN store. Not far to go.

One question to get things right: What do you like to use? New foot plate, RD4 on top, and then? Using RD4 as shown in Nick's picture, will offer the normal 3'8" female, or with the additional 3/8"to 1/4" screw as another option.

Using a Fanotec pole, this can be added to the RD4 with the included 3/8 screw. Sorry I do not understand the RD16 connection.

Regards,
Heinz

With the new rotor coming out I may change my plans.
What I was planning on is adding a 3 or 4 inch spacer between the footplate and rotor to keep the rotor out of the dirt.
On the RD4 rotor I was planning on drilling and tapping 4 more holes centered between the dents so 6 can now be used, 6 with one screw or 12 with a two screw, the 4 can be 4 or 8, on the 2 and 3 I would be adding more dents (as I donít need 2 or 3) making them something like 14 - 28 and 18 Ė 36.
So now I would have a small rotor with dent stops something like below.
4
6
8
12
14
18
28
36

As for my carbon fiber poles, I will have to modify the base to work on the rotor.
I donít need a rotor for normal pole shots, but with my new duel camera pano head for shooting 3D panos I will need one to shot many more shots fast as possible.
This is what will be mounted on top of the pole:
http://indiavrtours.com/pic/3d_head4.jpg

Roger

nick fan
02-03-2011, 05:27 PM
So now I would have a small rotor with dent stops something like below.
4
6
8
12
14
18
28
36
http://indiavrtours.com/pic/3d_head4.jpg


Each pole rotator can have only ONE detent stop option. Because of its size, you CANNOT get very dense interval. I need to check it out. chances are it will not support more than 18 stops.

Nice 3D head, BTW.


Nick

Cameleer
03-04-2011, 12:43 AM
Here's my custom Footplate modification that allows the footplate to fold up out of the way with not in use, the 5 inch tall spacer also helps to keep sand and dirt out of the RD16 rotator or any of the other rotators that can be used.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/footplate.jpg

Roger Berry

Wim.Koornneef
03-04-2011, 01:42 AM
Hello Roger,

That is a nice extension. Unless I am wrong you made it to keep dirt, sand, etc. out of the rotator and not to gain some extra height of the camera.
Although 5" will help it is not enough to protect the rotator from dirt so you still need to close the open detent sockets otherwise dirt will still enter the rotator in windy weather.
If the extra tension of the springs when the footplate is folded-in is an issue for the lifespan of the springs or not I don't know, I guess time will tell.

Wim

nick fan
03-04-2011, 04:37 AM
Here's my custom Footplate modification that allows the footplate to fold up out of the way with not in use, the 5 inch tall spacer also helps to keep sand and dirt out of the RD16 rotator or any of the other rotators that can be used.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/footplate.jpg

Roger Berry

Hi Roger.

Nice mod. Does the force of springs reduce after bending to +90 deg? I think they were deformed during my testing. That is why I limit the tilt angles.


Nick

BTW, prior customers of Fanotec Advanced rotators can ask for silicone dust protecting plugs from resellers free of charge.

DemonDuck
03-04-2011, 04:50 AM
If you use two spikes -- one in the center and one on the end -- and you have two different spike styles -- sharp and blunt -- then shouldn't you have 4 sockets for storing unused spikes? Like if you use no spikes when spikes are prohibited?

nick fan
03-04-2011, 05:23 AM
If you use two spikes -- one in the center and one on the end -- and you have two different spike styles -- sharp and blunt -- then shouldn't you have 4 sockets for storing unused spikes? Like if you use no spikes when spikes are prohibited?

The long blunt "spike" is for use on soft ground such as grass land to provide more anti-twisting force. Since the spike under the pole is near the center, there is no advantage to use a longer spike. Hence only one long spike is provided.

Nick

Cameleer
03-04-2011, 07:49 AM
Hi Wim and Nick.

I built it for 2 reasons, to help keep the rotator out of the dirt and so the footplate folds up out of the way. When I'm walking around with my pole setup all day, I really prefer not having to worry about the footplate sticking out.
I will close the open detent sockets, but first I have to decide which rotator is going to work best for me when shooting stereo 3D photos from on top of a pole at about 8 to 14 high.
No, this was not made to gain height, the carbon fiber pole that I have goes from 5 feet to 25 feet.
And yes, the +90 deg does badly weaken the spring, but I'm use to having my foot at the base of the pole anyway so this wont matter to me. Although I do wish the spring worked the other way around and closed the footplate up against this spacer, I may try to change it.

Roger Berry

DemonDuck
03-04-2011, 10:06 AM
I shoot on soft surfaces all the time. If I was using your foot plate, I would want a spike on the end also. The spike in the middle can't provide anti-twisting torque forces. It can only provide lateral stability. On soft surfaces, the spike on the end would be providing almost all the anti-torque forces. So two spikes would be necessary.

Cameleer
03-04-2011, 12:21 PM
I shoot on soft surfaces all the time. If I was using your foot plate, I would want a spike on the end also. The spike in the middle can't provide anti-twisting torque forces. It can only provide lateral stability. On soft surfaces, the spike on the end would be providing almost all the anti-torque forces. So two spikes would be necessary.

Hi DemonDuck,
The foot plate has 3 spicks.
Two short and one longer, one in the center and one goes on the end.
On soft surfaces you could make even a longer spike if needed, and standing on it will help.

Roger Berry

DemonDuck
03-04-2011, 12:24 PM
Hi DemonDuck,
The foot plate has 3 spicks.
Two smaller ones that go in the center and a longer one that goes on the end.
On soft surfaces you could add a longer spike if needed, and standing on it will help.

Roger Berry

You've missed my point. The point is that if you have two types of spikes and use two spikes -- one in the center and one on the end of the foot -- you need 4 storage sockets for the times when you use no spikes.

Cameleer
03-04-2011, 12:55 PM
You've missed my point. The point is that if you have two types of spikes and use two spikes -- one in the center and one on the end of the foot -- you need 4 storage sockets for the times when you use no spikes.

Here's a photo showing the spikes.
http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/footplate3.jpg

Being that the foot plate is hinged, the spicks can be different sizes.
And if your on soft ground the spick will sink into the ground. I could use a 1/2 inch spick and a 2 inch spick in soft ground if needed.

Roger Berry

nick fan
03-04-2011, 05:47 PM
Hi Wim and Nick.

I built it for 2 reasons, to help keep the rotator out of the dirt and so the footplate folds up out of the way. When I'm walking around with my pole setup all day, I really prefer not having to worry about the footplate sticking out.


And yes, the +90 deg does badly weaken the spring, but I'm use to having my foot at the base of the pole anyway so this wont matter to me. Although I do wish the spring worked the other way around and closed the footplate up against this spacer, I may try to change it.

Roger Berry

Hi Roger,

It is fun to see modification and improvements from ADVANCED tinkerers. In case you need to get some fresh springs, contact me off line.

BTW, you can bend the footplate down to -90 deg position by applying some force. A discovery by Wim. :th_wink: It scratches some anodized layer at the hinged though. The springs are not deformed in this way (in fact that is its initial angle). Wim prefers this position for storage.


Nick

PS Beginners should not attempt to modify our products. It voids the warranty.

nick fan
03-04-2011, 05:56 PM
The spike in the middle can't provide anti-twisting torque forces. It can only provide lateral stability. On soft surfaces, the spike on the end would be providing almost all the anti-torque forces. So two spikes would be necessary.

that is why you don't need a long spike in the "middle". Why bother to change it or make it?

Nick