D300, Samyang 8mm, w/ NN5L [Archive] - Nodal Ninja Forum

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Adamo
11-20-2010, 01:03 PM
Have big problem in finding NPP.
I followed 2ND link posted by Heinz and cannot get it correctly after many tries.
What am I doing wrong?

John Houghton
11-21-2010, 12:39 AM
The curving lines on the floor in the second image indicate that the optimization has gone awry. You should check that control points have not been assigned on the tripod and head. If they have, delete them and reoptimize. You can also try using the "Delete worst control points" option on the Control Points menu. It may be necessary to reset the lens parameters a,b,c to 0 before doing a further optimization. To do this, switch into Advanced mode via the button on PTGui's Project Assistant tab, and select the Lens Details tab.

John

badders
11-21-2010, 12:46 AM
Looks like you are taking 6 shots around? You only need 4 shots around tilted down at -15degs plus one shot up tilted up at 60 degs for a full 360 x 180 with this lens and the D300. What software are you using to stitch? Are you telling it the correct initial lens parameters?

hindenhaag
11-21-2010, 01:34 AM
Adamo,

to get you out of frustration on a sunny sunday morning: Try 60 for LRS and 97 for URS. D300s Samyang 8mm NN5.


But check the setting with your own equipment with the links you know. Samyang only needs 4 for shots around. You should get familiar with the way to find the settings on your own as well:th_wink:

Sucess,
Heinz

BTW.: One of the basic links: http://www.frankvanderpol.nl/fov_pan_calc_de.htm

Adamo
11-21-2010, 07:09 AM
Looks like you are taking 6 shots around? You only need 4 shots around tilted down at -15degs plus one shot up tilted up at 60 degs for a full 360 x 180 with this lens and the D300. What software are you using to stitch? Are you telling it the correct initial lens parameters?

No, I'm taking 5 shots around only, no Zenith. I'll try 4 shots at -15 plus zenith +60.
Also, is the CP line running up/down above white screw supposed to indicate 97 on upper arm? Then I had correct setting there, but lower was set at 63. Is LRS indicated by left edge of a support arm? A little confused would be under statement.:001_unsure:
Thank you all!

Adamo
11-21-2010, 10:45 AM
No, I'm taking 5 shots around only, no Zenith. I'll try 4 shots at -15 plus zenith +60.
Also, is the CP line running up/down above white screw supposed to indicate 97 on upper arm? Then I had correct setting there, but lower was set at 63. Is LRS indicated by left edge of a support arm? A little confused would be under statement.:001_unsure:
Thank you all!
In addition what focal length is correct to use in autopano or PTGUI?
The reviews I read claim a little bit different ones, like true FL i9s 8.7, 7.87, 8.5 etc.

Adamo
11-21-2010, 12:58 PM
Here are two more images after correcting my setup to suggested settings. I think it's much better. 4 around at +15, 1 at +60 and 1 at -60.

hindenhaag
11-21-2010, 02:37 PM
Hi Adamo,

The line on CP is indication the upper rail setting. 97 is right. But your thumbnail shows the teeth of the saw cut to the left, so you have to move to the left, which means you have to reduce the distance, it has to be set to something lower than 63: try 60 as I recommended.

Focal length has to be set to 8mm. PTGui will determine it self after the first arrangement. Just came back home right now, so an answer being a little bit later, but better than no answer?

Cheers,
Heinz

BTW: John answered as well while I was looking up my database. So Adamo, you see we are watching... Because of the special construction of the Samyang lens it is more a 9mm, and with a good stitch adding manual control points to the outside of the lens, corrected Chromatic Aberration and a very small crop, you get a FOV of around 190°.

John Houghton
11-21-2010, 02:46 PM
PTGui evaluates the focal length of the Samyang 8mm to approximately 9mm, so it's best to initialize it to that.

John

Adamo
11-22-2010, 06:10 AM
John and Heinz,
Thank you for helping me here. Close, but no cigar, so far:biggrin:
I've already set LRS to 60 in the last images I attached. I shall try 59 today or tomorrow.
Should I shot 4 around at -15, zenith at +60, nadir -60? Total 6? :001_unsure:

badders
11-23-2010, 12:30 AM
Should I shot 4 around at -15, zenith at +60, nadir -60? Total 6? :001_unsure:
Yes. Nadir is optional as of course you can clone the area around the tripod in P'Shop. :th_wink:

Adamo
11-23-2010, 12:51 PM
Hi,
Here is my latest test. URS at 97 and LRS at 59. According to Autopano I get 2.47 RMS excellent.
Here are two images. Please comment.
How do I delete old attachments? No room for second image.
Thanks!

John Houghton
11-23-2010, 02:16 PM
RMS of 2.47 doesn't seem quite so wonderful to me. I expect to get figures in PTGui like average distance <1 and maximum <2. There didn't seem anything wrong with your previous test result with a LRS of 60, so why not try shooting some real panoramas?

John

Adamo
11-23-2010, 02:57 PM
Thank you for your reply.
I thought that I still had "saw blade" effect, so I changed to LRS 59.
How do I delete images I previously uploaded, so I can upload some other images?
I was never able to get better RMS than 2.4 in Autopano. I input lens focal length as 8.7. Still learning, but it's tough, because of lack of recources. Any suggestions for reading / looking. It's all magic to me right now.
I think I made a mistake and shot my images as mixed bag of 45 and 90 deg. That's why I got 6 including zenith.

hindenhaag
11-23-2010, 09:44 PM
Adamo,

The thumbnail looks a bit rare to me. The rail to the right is incomplete. Did you photoshop? Try to focus to the corner of the rotator. But anyway, LRS should be right around 59 60.
I have the same problems to delete uploaded images. I already contacted Derek, he is working on this problem.

Concerning the set up for shots: When you say you are shooting 6 around, this means 6 shots in one row without changing pitch : means up and down of upper rail. So your 6 is better explained by 4 around + Zenith and Nadir. Cause the Samyang has a Field of view of nearly 190°, you could also shoot 4 around at +5°, which gives a good Zenith. To get a good Nadir, I use the Nadir Adaptor and shoot 2 nadir shots, one in normal position -90°, second shot with open Adaptor and replaced tripod. But you have to find you own workflow, there are different methods to shoot the nadir: viewpoint correction, handheld, or with the nadir adaptor, which I prefer personally.

There are tutorials at Autopano homepage as well as on www.PTGui.com .

John's very useful info's: http://www.johnhpanos.com/tuts.htm

and this: http://www.rosaurophotography.com/html/technical0.html

Heinz

John Houghton
11-24-2010, 04:04 AM
How do I delete images I previously uploaded, so I can upload some other images?
Assuming you don't have access to any private web space, you might consider uploading your images to one of the free services such as:
http://www.sharesend.com
http://www.filedropper.com

John

Adamo
11-24-2010, 06:02 AM
Thank you again.
Here are my last images, please take a look.
http://sharesend.com/e3vyo

Adamo
11-24-2010, 06:16 AM
Heinz and John,
I made a mistake and as result I think I shot one image rotating only 45 deg instead of 90 + zenith at 60 and nadir at -60. My LRS and URS are exactly as you recommended unless I'am reading wrong LRS setting (picture would be worth a 1000 words). I'm reading of left edge of column support.
My images:
http://sharesend.com/e3vyo
What is nadir adaptor. Where can I see it?
Thank you!

John Houghton
11-24-2010, 07:43 AM
Despite the odd yaw increments, the images stitch perfectly fine with PTGui. The optimizer report gave the average distance as 0.5 and a maximum of 1.6. I would recommend that you give all the images the same exposure in manual mode for ease of blending. You should also be careful of the position of your shadow in the shots so that hopefully most of the shadows can be easily eliminated. There didin't seem to be much point in shooting the nadir at pitch -60. If you are going to take nadir shots on the tripod, take two pointing directly down with the head rotated by 90 or 180 degrees between them.

The details of the nadir adapter are in this thread (http://tinyurl.com/2we8hwq).

John

hindenhaag
11-24-2010, 09:37 AM
Adamo,

as John a got a fine stitch in PTGui. But I get crazy about the stops, "odd jaw increments". Once again, you need 4 shots around, you have to set the detend plunger to 90º. When you use pitch, you have to move the upper rail up and down. Sorry to ask, but why do you take a shot with 45º in between? How can this happen with the detent plunger set to 90º, because it should only click in at 90º. What do you do,just try to explain, we just want to help you.

I stitch 4 of your shots, and the seems show different exposures, which means once the sky is lighter than in the other shot. So 4 shots have four different blue colors of the sky, which will end in different colors of the sky and the rest of the pano at the end.Basic : set aperture, shutter speed, white balance and focus to manual. Otherwise you will get a puzzle of everything, besides problems in stitching cause of a wrong set up in your own case.

Sorry, cause I still can not delete my pics from advanced mode attachments, I can not send a pic right now. I send a link tonight. Derek is working on this.

You take nadir shots to be able to get rid of the feet and the tripod and replace it with a "true pic of the ground below your tripod". Now have a look to your nadir shot: feet and tripod in one shot. Easy to avoid your feet: take a remote control, walk aside, and take the shot, a shot without feet. Walking aside, have an eye on it to avoid your own shadow in this picture. Take the sun in front of you behind the tripod than in your back taking a nadir shot with your shadow added on the ground.

Now the main point of a nadir shot system: think about your nadir shots without feet: the tripod covers the ground below it. But a panorama with a good Nadir solution should show this area. What can you do? With only one shot, the only solution is to "clone stamp" = to copy the areas around the tripod which seem to be similar to ground below the tripod, and paste them in this area. In Photoshop. There are different ways to to get a good bottom below the tripod. To cut it short. I use the NN nadir adaptor. Added to NN5 or NN3, this is one shot -90º down after the 4 shots around, open up the adaptor, move the tripod sideways, second shot. And then you mask the tripod in PTGui advanced mode with mask function in the two nadir shots and then you stitch all together.

http://www.nodalninja.com/Manuals/nadiradapterQRG_full.pdf

Regards,
Heinz

Adamo
11-24-2010, 10:49 AM
John,
You got excellent result then with my images. It was just a test, so I didn't care about the shadows or anything else, but setup for NPP. Will shot on manual in the future. Nadir is a big problem for me. Have to learn how to do it.
Can put to rest NPP settings and leave it as it is?
Thank you so much!

Adamo
11-24-2010, 11:00 AM
Heinz,
I shot 45 deg, becase I have only 45 deg detent ring and made a mistake. 90 deg detent din't come with my set of NN5. I'm buying 90/120 deg detent ring soon. Thank you again!
Freezing rain today, but will try soon.

John Houghton
11-24-2010, 11:16 AM
Adamo, I have uploaded a copy of my stitched panorama (DxO.jpg) to http://sharesend.com/qw01r. I would say you should be happy with your NPP settings - at least until you have shot a more challenging subject with things close to the camera.

John

Adamo
11-24-2010, 11:49 AM
John,
You're the master. It looks 1000x better than what I can do in PTGui. Which images did you stitch?
Where did you learn how to do it?
THANK YOU!

hindenhaag
11-24-2010, 12:08 PM
Adamo,

John is a very experienced guy, since years, very precise. Sometimes you do not like his comments on your own work. Be sure, this is no personal comment. He personally likes to be very precise, so he trained himself a lot, reading a lot, trying to get into the depth of software by try and error.

John is one of the most experienced guys in this theme, his comments and tutorials help newbies to get on the next floor.

Concerning questions about the nadir, just ask, I will try to send pics or another info on how to solve it.

Regards,
Heinz

Adamo
11-24-2010, 12:16 PM
Heinz,
You got it wrong.
I appreciate yours and John's critic as harsh as it may seem. Please, be frank with me.
My photography experience goes back 40+ years, but in pano photography I am novice.
I need all the help I can get here.
Thank you both.

John Houghton
11-24-2010, 12:25 PM
Adamo, I used all the images that you supplied for my stitch. There were no particular difficulties, but I did use the mask facilities in the latest V9 beta version of PTGui Pro to help the blending process. As Heinz says, I've been doing this for some years now. I began with the first versions of PTGui in the year 2000, but I have dabbled with panoramas using traditional wet chemical photographic processes since the 1960's.

John

John Houghton
11-24-2010, 12:41 PM
I need all the help I can get here.

Adamo, I know you have been using Autopano Pro for your stitching, but since you mentioned also trying PTGui, I have uploaded my project file here (http://sharesend.com/iqlg2). As I said, it's for the V9 beta that's available for download. It should be compatible with earlier versions though.

John

Adamo
11-24-2010, 03:04 PM
John,
I noticed from this PTS that you put for FOL 8.55 and for conversion factor 1.6. Is there any reason for this? Also, you used fullframe for lens type. I used circular.
However, after optimizer I got max distance 15.xxx
Thank you!

hindenhaag
11-24-2010, 10:31 PM
Adamo,

I just took the first 4 pics, aligned, optimized with lens shift and heavy in advanced mode, del worst control points and ended up with max 1.2. In the preview you can see the seems with different colours. You have to set focal lens to 8mm, and full frame. After the first alignment PTGui sets the own focal length and factor , that's why we get 8.55 etc.

http://homepage.mac.com/hindenhaag/filechute/DxOPanoPreview.zip

http://www.nodalninja.com/Manuals/nadiradapterQRG_full.pdf

Regards,
Heinz

John Houghton
11-25-2010, 12:55 AM
John,
I noticed from this PTS that you put for FOL 8.55 and for conversion factor 1.6. Is there any reason for this?

The 1.6 was the result of my applying one of my own project files as a template to initialize the project and this was for a Canon camera rather than Nikon camera. The factor should really be 1.5.
It's of no importance since all PTGui cares about is the horizontal field of view of the lens (hfov), which is determined by the optimizer. It makes no difference whether you specify the lens as focal length 8mm at crop factor 1.7, 8mm at 1.6, or 9mm at 1.5. PTGui computes an initial hfov from the figures you supply (or from EXIF data in the images), and the optimizer then fine tunes this value.


Also, you used fullframe for lens type. I used circular.

I used fullframe because the lens is generally regarded as a fullframe lens - i.e. no part of the edge of the image circle of the lens is visible in the frame. However, you can specify the lens as acircular lens and set a circular crop to pass through the corners of the image to use all of the image frame. If the image quality falls off in the corners of the lens, you can set the crop circle smaller so that the corners are excluded.


However, after optimizer I got max distance 15.xxx
Thank you!

For the best possible results, it's important to have control points accurately positioned on matching features and nicely spread along the full length of the overlap area. A large number of points is not necessary. The automatic generator will generate as many points as you like (set via Tools->Options), but not all the points may be positioned very accurately and freqently they are not spread evenly either.

Poorly positioned points will usually be characterised by large distance values in the control points table after optimization. These points should be either deleted or manually repositioned accurately. You can use the Delete Worst Control Points option on the Control Points menu to delete all the really bad points in one fell swoop, but PTGui will not remove a point if by doing so less than 7 points would remain for pair of images.

Removing bad points automatically may remove points that have every appearance of being accurately positioned. This can happen when features are affected by parallax or when the lens parameters are not yet right. To get the lens parameters right, you need a nice spread of control points. In simple terms, if you want the images to align well all along the length of the seams, you need control points placed all along the seams. So it pays to check the spread of points between pairs of images visually and add a few points manually where they are lacking. It is all too easy to get a "very good" optimizer report when points are clustered in the middle of the image overlaps, but the images may still not align well in the corners where there are no control points owing to the lens distortion not being adequately corrected. Adding points towards the corners will help the optimizer to correct the distortion there and get good alignment.

John

Adamo
11-25-2010, 07:11 AM
Heinz,
Thank you for your reply.
I'm buying nadir adapter. Also, 90/120 deg ring. Can you suggest another detent ring that is not included with NN5 and could come handy? Two rings cost only $20.
Best regards,

Adamo

Adamo
11-25-2010, 07:16 AM
John,
Thank you for your explanation. It makes a lot of sens to me.
I use mainly Autopano now, but maybe in the future I'll buy PTGui. Is it better than Autopano? Expensive also.
Best regards,

Adamo

hindenhaag
11-26-2010, 12:05 AM
Adamo, depends on the sort of lenses you have.

Normally I use 16mm with D3 or 14-24. If 4 shots are needed shaved 10.5 or Samyang 8mm. 50mm is a good alternative. Or 70-200mm.

You can calculate the number of shots by this:

http://www.frankvanderpol.nl/fov_pan_calc_de.htm

http://www.nodalninja.com/product_selector.html

14-24 will need 45/36º 8/10stops, 50mm needs 24/20/18º with 15/18/20 stops NN5L will 15º with 25 stops in this case.

Cheers,
Heinz

John Houghton
11-26-2010, 01:39 AM
I use mainly Autopano now, but maybe in the future I'll buy PTGui. Is it better than Autopano?

Which is best depends on what you want. Both products can prodouce excellent results and can do things that the other can't. Autopano Pro will appeal to those who place ease of use high in their list of priorities and maybe will not care too much about the odd minor stitching error. PTGui offers more flexibility and control over the whole stitching process and will suit those in pursuit of the highest quality stitching and who value the ability to tackle unusual stitching tasks - e.g. "stitching" (warping/remapping) single images, support of cylindrical and equirectangular lens types. Undoubtedly PTGui is more difficult to learn if you want to take advantage of its Advanced modes, but it's like riding a bike: easy when you know how.

If you feel comfortable with Autopano Pro and it meets your immediate requirements, it's probably best to stick with it for the moment and learn how to get the best out of it. Reading posts here and elsewhere should gradually give an idea of what PTGui and other products are capable of and alert you to things worth trying.

John

Adamo
11-30-2010, 06:52 AM
John,
I appreciate all your help.
So, how exactly should I shoot 4 around to get optimal result.
Thank you!

John Houghton
11-30-2010, 01:30 PM
Adamo, I'm not sure what the optimal result is that you are aiming for. You shoot 4 around at a yaw increment of 90 degrees, which is obvious. The pitch of the camera is entirely up to you. Pitch down to include more of the nadir area; pitch up to include more of the zenith area.

John

Adamo
12-06-2010, 07:15 AM
Why am I getting URS shadow so big / long? What's wrong?
Still cannot delete attachments.
image is here
http://www.zshare.net/image/83570363064c6f69/
Thank you!

John Houghton
12-06-2010, 10:39 AM
I would recommend that you mask out the panohead from the camera images using alpha channel masks, or use the built-in mask facility in the new PTGui Pro V9. If you are not familiar with alpha channel masks, see this tutorial (http://www.johnhpanos.com/alphatut.htm).

John

Adamo
12-10-2010, 02:40 PM
Hi,
NN manual for nadir adapter says that there is 3mm offset on NN3. Is this also the case with NN5?

Vincèn
12-10-2010, 11:44 PM
NN manual for nadir adapter says that there is 3mm offset on NN3. Is this also the case with NN5?
Nope it's only with NN3 as vertical arm of NN3 is shorter than NN5 one so the offset !

Adamo
12-11-2010, 08:19 AM
Here are to images I got from stitching the same images trying to find NPP / OSP. It drives me crazy. Help!
Also, I uploaded 6 images that I took trying.
If possible send me PTS file.
Thank you!

http://www.filedropper.com/npp

http://www.filedropper.com/images_84

John Houghton
12-11-2010, 12:02 PM
First, please try to be more considerate when uploading files. There was no reason to post 6 x 25MB RAW files. jpeg files of 1-2MB are entirely adequate for the purpose. As it was, the download speed being only 80KB/sec (on my 20Mb/s) connection), the zip file took nearly half-an-hour to download.

The 6 images stitched ok but the nadir showed a sawtooth outline that indicated the camera needs shifting left slightly. Otherwise, there weren't any significant parallax problems. I've put the project file and nadir image at http://www.johnhpanos.com/adamo.zip.

John

Adamo
12-11-2010, 12:25 PM
John,
I apologize for not thinking about file size. I'm new to this stuff and didn't realize that it will take so long to d/l it.
Here I uploaded small tripod shot only 550K.
http://www.filedropper.com/1000cube5
This project drives me crazy for past few days. I would like to know what are correct settings for SAMYANG in PTGui are.
I'm thinking of buying it.

John Houghton
12-11-2010, 01:43 PM
Filedropper.com seems to be very slow and unreliable today and I cannot access the 1000cube5 file at the moment. As for the PTGui settings for the Samyang, the pts file I uploaded should contain all the parameters you need.

John

Adamo
12-11-2010, 02:00 PM
Here is my last one for today. I hope I got nailed.
http://sharesend.com/l0rz1
Thank you!

John Houghton
12-11-2010, 11:51 PM
That looks fine, if not actually perfect. You should waste no more time and start taking some real panoramas. Any stitching errors that you get will not be due to the setup of your panohead.

John

hindenhaag
12-11-2010, 11:53 PM
Adamo, there is no offset for nadir Adaptor on NN5.

Offset on NN3 is 6mm, not 3.

Heinz

Adamo
12-12-2010, 07:08 AM
That looks fine, if not actually perfect. You should waste no more time and start taking some real panoramas. Any stitching errors that you get will not be due to the setup of your panohead.

John
John and Heinz,
I don't mean to be argumentative, but it looks like I may be 1-2mm behind NPP. Should I move URS back a little? To get rid of the hexagon outline.
Thank you to both of you! My panoramas stitch much better.

hindenhaag
12-12-2010, 08:16 AM
Adamo,

to me, as for john, it looks quite good for lower rail setting. What is your URS you used?

There is always the need to place some manual CP to the "outer circles of the fisheye lenses" and to set them along the verticals and horizontals. When you have got a very good result, save this as a template. This will reduce the amount of placing CP manually. But when I remember right you normally are working with Autopano?

I will reload my pics of D300s Samyang 8mm with orange laser placed dots in horizontal and vertical to set up a template.

There is no need to get rid of the "hexagon outline", the reference for the LRS is the round circle of the panohead. Or do I misunderstand you?

Cheers,
Heinz

Adamo
12-12-2010, 10:32 AM
Heinz,
My LRS is 59.5-60 and URS is 97.
I thought, looking at Smooth method pictures that there should not be any hexagon outline, so I wanted to move back URS to 98-99 and eliminate this hexagon. Also, looking closely the very bottom of tripod legs are kind of mangled out of shape.
I want to see your laser method to find NPP. Please, post it so I can downloaded it.
Have to say that I'm learning a lot from you and John.
Thank you!

P.S.
Do you feel better?

John Houghton
12-12-2010, 11:23 AM
Also, looking closely the very bottom of tripod legs are kind of mangled out of shape.

There's nothing wrong with the tripod legs.

From the stitch of your 6 images, the upper rail setting looks to be good, in so far as there is no parallax shift visible between shots. However, there is nothing really close to the camera in any of the overlaps to properly assess this. You should take some shots specifically to check for parallax in order to validate the URS (or maybe check with live view).

John

Adamo
12-12-2010, 01:25 PM
There's nothing wrong with the tripod legs.

From the stitch of your 6 images, the upper rail setting looks to be good, in so far as there is no parallax shift visible between shots. However, there is nothing really close to the camera in any of the overlaps to properly assess this. You should take some shots specifically to check for parallax in order to validate the URS (or maybe check with live view).

John

John and Heinz,
To get some close objects I tried grid method. The result is not bad, but not perfect. I can see some misalignment next to center button to the left of it.
Also, I uploaded images from the grid method. I wonder, if this misalignment can be fixed in PTGui. Would you be kind to send me PTS and your stitch, if you decide to try it.
I can't thank you enough for all your help. Now my panoramas start to look as they should.
Here is the link to images:

http://sharesend.com/z2ijx

Adamo
12-12-2010, 01:48 PM
I also stitched it in Autopano with better result. I think. Here:
http://sharesend.com/7niko
Now, if you can point me where I can learn to do nadir stitch correctly.
Thank you!

John Houghton
12-13-2010, 01:56 PM
To get some close objects I tried grid method. The result is not bad, but not perfect.

Perfection is not to be expected, given that the entrance pupil for a fisheye lens is not located at a single, fixed position. Because the entrance pupil moves about for rays entering the lens at different angles, parallax cannot be completely eliminated over the whole of the image overlaps. Compromises have to be made. Evidence of parallax errors may or may not be visible in a stitched image, since blending will often disguise stitching errors so that they are not noticeable. Smartblend is particularly good at hiding errors, and is an option that's available in both Autopano Pro and PTGui.

To judge the alignment of images, it is best to output the stitched image as a psd layered file. You can then readily see misalignments over whole of an overlap region between two image layers in Photoshop by switching the upper image off and on. The line where the seam will be placed by the blender is the main region of interest, as that is where any misalignments are most likely to be visible. This is generally half way across the overlap.

In taking shots for checking parallax, you should shoot with the same angular increments that will be used for your actual panorama shoots. In your case you are taking 6 shots around, incrementing yaw by 60 degrees. So take your shots of the grid at 60 degree increments, not 30 degrees as you have done. Obviously, you can omit the central image of three so that you then have two taken at the required 60 degrees.

Your setup looks to be adequate for most purposes, so I suggest you try taking some real panoramas.

John

Adamo
12-13-2010, 05:43 PM
John
Thank you for your insightfull reply, as always.
I just followed instruction doing drid method. Don't know any better yet.
You didn't mention where can I get some info how to shoot and stitch nadir.
Thank you!

John Houghton
12-14-2010, 12:21 AM
You didn't mention where can I get some info how to shoot and stitch nadir.!

There are many ways of shooting and stitching nadir shots. To shoot the nadir in good light, all you need do is shift the tripod out of the way and hand hold the camera at roughly the original mounted position, pointing down at the ground. Take care to position yourself so that you capture areas that originally contained shadows of tripod legs etc. To minimize the size of the nadir hole to be filled, you can tilt the camera down for the horizontal shots by 10 degrees, say. This will enlarge the zenith hole, of course. Alternatively, you can shoot two nadir shots with the camera still on the panohead, rotating the head through 90 degrees between them. These two shots can be stitched along with the horizontal shots to give the smallest area to patch in the best quality.

In low light conditions and when shooting bracketed shots for HDR processing, shooting with a hand held camera is not very practical, because of camera shake and alignment problems. Methods of dealing with these are described at:

http://www.rosaurophotography.com/html/technical6.html
http://tinyurl.com/2we8hwq (Nodal Ninja nadir adapter)

Stitching a nadir shot presents problems because it's difficult to maintain the position of the entrance pupil exactly when shooting, so you get parallax problems and changes of perspective. PTGui can cope with this very well when the nadir area is a flat floor by using the viewpoint correction feature in the Pro version. There's a tutorial describing this process on the PTGui web site, and I have one at:

http://www.johnhpanos.com/ptgvpt.htm

Otherwise, you can manually align and blend in a nadir shot by extracting a rectilinear view of the nadir area from the stitched equirectangular panorama image, patching over the nadir hole, and then returning the edited nadir view to the equirecangular image. There are many ways of doing this, e.g:

Convert the equirectangular image to 6 cubic tiles (e.g. with Pano2VR, Pano2QTVR, PTGui), edit the nadir tile, rebuild the equirectangular image.

Use the patch facility in Pano2VR

PTEditor from the Panorama Tools package

Super Cubic plugin by Rune Spaans: http://www.superrune.com/technical/software_spheretocubic.php

PanoTools Wiki tutorials: http://wiki.panotools.org/Zenith_and_Nadir_editing_overview

When using the cubic tiles methods, you need a defished nadir shot to patch in manually. You can use PTGui to do the defishing by including the nadir shot in the full panorama project. Align it as best you can with the optimizer (with all the image and lens parameters unchecked for the other images). Then output two equirectangular stitches: one containing only the nadir shot and one containing all the other images. You can then convert these to cubic tiles and merge the corresponding nadir tiles.

John

Adamo
12-14-2010, 02:06 PM
John,
Thank you!
I'll review all referenced material you kindly provided.
Do you think that nadir adapter is something I should consider?
BTW, I prefer shooting panoramas that can be printed vs. VR format At least for now.

John Houghton
12-15-2010, 12:22 AM
Do you think that nadir adapter is something I should consider?

Yes, you should consider it when you have some experience of shooting the type of panoramas you are interested in.

John

Adamo
12-15-2010, 07:07 AM
John,
Since NN5 is discontinued I may not be able to buy it later.
Where can I see tutorial about CP placement for good stitch?
Thanks!

John Houghton
12-15-2010, 01:23 PM
I don't know of tutorials specifically about placing control points. You can find general guidance by displaying the Control Points tab in PTGui and selecting Help->Help for this screen.

John

Adamo
12-15-2010, 06:31 PM
John,
Since NN5 is discontinued I may not be able to buy it later.
Where can I see tutorial about CP placement for good stitch?
Thanks!

Do I have to find NPP again, if I attach nadir adapter to my NN5?

hindenhaag
12-15-2010, 10:14 PM
No, Nadir Adaptor on NN5 will not change the settings. Using NN3, you have to reduce the Lower Rail Setting for 6mm because off an offset with NN3 Vertical Rail.

Having done your turn around stops, go down to -90° to shoot the first Nadir shot. Then open up the adaptor, and move the tripod aside to the opposite direction. The minimum distance to move is double the distance from Rotation center of the rotator to pivot point of the adaptor (below the screw). Then take the second Nadir shot. On the pics there has to be free space between the 3. tripod leg in first shot and the corner of the adaptor in the second one.

In PTGui you use the masking function to mask the tripod in the two nadir shots and the go on stitching.

Heinz

hindenhaag
12-16-2010, 05:34 AM
Adamo,

I reloaded the D300s map of my fisheye lens comparison map. Samyang 8mm f/3.5. First row 0º, 2nd 5º, 3rd 7.5º, 2x 60º, Zenith, 2x Nadir.

You can use the orange dots to try to set up a template or play around with these pics. The Nadir is taken with the Nadir Adaptor

http://homepage.mac.com/hindenhaag/filechute/D300s_Samyang%208mm_f3.zip

Regards,
Heinz

BTW: Download will take it's time cause RAW data is included.