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cellarman
07-05-2010, 06:27 AM
Hi

Has anyone out there tried the new Nadir Adapter for NN3 and NN5 series Nodal Ninja panorama heads. Would be interested to see some results with this kit.

Cheers

Brian

James
07-05-2010, 11:37 PM
Yes me to :biggrin:

I am currently considering purchasing one, am using D200, NN3, EZ-leveller & Nikon 10.5mm.

Does anyone have any sample images they could show taken with the Nadir adaptor? I am currently using a tripod cap logo at present but would love to be able to get this nadir thing sorted :tongue_smilie:

hindenhaag
07-06-2010, 12:44 AM
Hi Guys,

what tripods are you using? I am testing both NN3 and NN5. The adaptor sets a lot of torque to the equipment and the camera will move down. To re-level, I would recommend to use an EZ-Leveller II and a 2/3 way bubble leveler in the cameras flash shoe. Then it is easy to re-level.

The NN has to be set in 90° to two legs of the tripod. As DennisS advised, you have to be aware that a long center column may interfere even alpha masked. Use a short center column and a tripod with stiff center column attachment.

I used a Manfrotto 055ProB for my panos a long time, but with the swivel the center column moves. The problem of a little bit unstable center column was reported before with the manfrotto by Pros.

Actually, I now use Gitzo GT1541 for NN3/R1 for light weight and travel and Feisol CT3372LV for NN5 D3 Nikkor 14-24/f2.8 without center column ( interchangeable plate ) or with center column and monopod for pole pano. Rock solid.

Use the legs spread out and do some test shots, use for the best wireless control to get your body out of the pics. Turning out the swivel, turn the equipment holding it on the hight of the rotator knob. Before turning, fix the rotator with both, fixing knob and detend plunger. Turn around, fix the swivel screw, take shot, IMMEDIATELY turn the nadir adaptor back and fix the screw before you do anything else.

I leave my legs, the two in front, spread out and do not set them to 90° in vertical. BOTH, NN5 AND NN3 WITH NADIR ADAPTOR TURNED OUT MIGHT BEND OVER >85° EVEN WITH SPREAD OUT LEGS. That's Physics, isn't it? Take care of your equipment.

Conclusion: Great addition to the NN products. Easier to use than old way 2 nadir visa versa + handheld shot. Freedom to get nadir in long exposure situations. Saves one shot visa versa, think of bracketing.

Accessories required: for my personal opinion Ez-Leveller II, 2/3way bubble leveller, wireless remote control

TRIPOD WITH STABLE CENTER COLUMN.

I will send pics later.

Regards

Heinz

BTW Brian, what camera lens combi do u use?

hindenhaag
07-06-2010, 12:58 AM
Important addition:

only re-level the bubble leveller on the camera in both bubbles of the 2-way leveller. Do not think of the one on the rotator. This will stay off center. But this doesn't matter because we only have to re-level the camera.

I use a cord to control the repositioning of the tripod to NPP and a coin below the tripod before moving.

Success

Heinz

hindenhaag
07-06-2010, 01:07 AM
For Users of NN3 with nadir adaptor:

You have to reduce the LRS by 6 mm, because there is an offset of 6 mm of the vertical rail to the important corner of the nadir adaptor to lower rail. You will see once you have mounted the vertical rail of the NN3 to the adaptor. This is the measurement for my equipment NN3 MKII. Test your own equipment to be sure about this.

Heinz

DennisS
07-06-2010, 08:36 AM
http://www.dlsphoto.net/Panoguide/230Offset.jpg

The Nadir shot is in the center, the patch shot has the tripod off to the left. Note the orientation of the pano head to the tripod. That is critical to using the swivel correctly.

Here is a quick tutorial on processing the images with PTGui. http://www.dlsphoto.net/Tutorials/NadirPatch2/index.htm

There is a lot of side load with the camera swiveled out. I use a D300 + 10.5mm lens and found that the NN3 lower rail is not really up to the task with the D300. The NN3 is not designed for larger DSL cameras in the first place. I use Manfrotto 055x series of tripods. Neither the standard or pivoting center column models flex when the camera is swung out. Most vertical movement comes from flex in the lower arm of the pano head or a leveler. Whatever tripod you get, order a short center column.

A lot of people do not use any leveling device. It is easy to adjust the tripod legs in order to level your rig. You do not need to be perfectly level anyway. With the camera swung out, any vertical movement should be compensated for in your stitching software. The point of the swivel is to make capturing the Nadir patch shot as easy and quick as possible. When you start adjusting your rig between the patch shot and the rest of your panorama, you are adding more steps to the capture process. The ideal steps are to take the Nadir, swing the camera out, slide your rig over, take the patch shot, swivel your camera back and off you go to the next panorama.

Look at the swivel as another step in your process. Try it without the leveler to see if that works for you. If you find that vertical movement of the camera is causing you more time in stitching, then relevel the rig between shots. You should not have to mess with the tripod legs. If you are, then you are not correctly set up in the first place.

cellarman
07-06-2010, 01:53 PM
Hi Guys,

what tripods are you using? I am testing both NN3 and NN5. The adaptor sets a lot of torque to the equipment and the camera will move down. To re-level, I would recommend to use an EZ-Leveller II and a 2/3 way bubble leveler in the cameras flash shoe. Then it is easy to re-level.

The NN has to be set in 90° to two legs of the tripod. As DennisS advised, you have to be aware that a long center column may interfere even alpha masked. Use a short center column and a tripod with stiff center column attachment.

I used a Manfrotto 055ProB for my panos a long time, but with the swivel the center column moves. The problem of a little bit unstable center column was reported before with the manfrotto by Pros.

Actually, I now use Gitzo GT1541 for NN3/R1 for light weight and travel and Feisol CT3372LV for NN5 D3 Nikkor 14-24/f2.8 without center column ( interchangeable plate ) or with center column and monopod for pole pano. Rock solid.

Use the legs spread out and do some test shots, use for the best wireless control to get your body out of the pics. Turning out the swivel, turn the equipment holding it on the hight of the rotator knob. Before turning, fix the rotator with both, fixing knob and detend plunger. Turn around, fix the swivel screw, take shot, IMMEDIATELY turn the nadir adaptor back and fix the screw before you do anything else.

I leave my legs, the two in front, spread out and do not set them to 90° in vertical. BOTH, NN5 AND NN3 WITH NADIR ADAPTOR TURNED OUT MIGHT BEND OVER >85° EVEN WITH SPREAD OUT LEGS. That's Physics, isn't it? Take care of your equipment.

Conclusion: Great addition to the NN products. Easier to use than old way 2 nadir visa versa + handheld shot. Freedom to get nadir in long exposure situations. Saves one shot visa versa, think of bracketing.

Accessories required: for my personal opinion Ez-Leveller II, 2/3way bubble leveller, wireless remote control

TRIPOD WITH STABLE CENTER COLUMN.

I will send pics later.

Regards

Heinz

BTW Brian, what camera lens combi do u use?


Heinz

My rig consists of NikonD90 & D2, 10.5 fisheye, NN3, Ez leveler & Velbron DV-7000. Pretty standard set up really. The Velbron is a video tripod and as such is quite heavy, but very, very stable., however a real pain to carry any distance. Look forward to your pics.

Brian

hindenhaag
07-09-2010, 06:02 PM
Hi,

I have set up a panorama with D200, Nikkor 10.5, NN3 and Nadir Adaptor. The set includes 2 videos, one about preparing, alpha mask nadir and stitching the panorama with PTGuiPro and PS CS4. The second one explains the set up of the rig and shows the effect of the nadir adaptor.

Two maps include the pics of the pano - for those who want to play around on their own - and the pics of the D200, 10.5, NN3, Ez-LevellerII Gitzo GT 1541T

The workflow in the video shows my own decision to create a panorama, there are many ways to Rome and might be that others do it in another way. Same with using the EZ-LevellerII, I can do it as well without it and use the tripod legs to adjust, I simply prefer to use the leveller instead of adjusting tripods legs.

I have set this up cause there have been questions around the nadir adaptor, stitching, and alpha masks. Just to try to give "newbies" a help to start up. Not to start a lot of threads with those who know how to do it. Camera orientation "on'' "off" etc.

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/NNNadirAdaptorVideo.zip Video

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/D200_10.zip Pics of pano

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/SetUPNadirAdaptor.zip Video

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/SetUpNNNadirAdaptor.zip Pics of Set Up

Think it helps a little bit,

regards

Heinz

John Houghton
07-10-2010, 09:14 AM
Heinz, You did well in describing the general process of using the nadir adapter in the videos. Newbies should find them very useful. However, I do have reservations about your stitching workflow, and I cannot agree that your final result is a "very fine stitch" - there being several stitching errors at the nadir. It's quite easy to get a flawless stitch with your images, but I will observe your request not to get involved with side issues and leave it at that.

John

hindenhaag
07-10-2010, 10:53 AM
Thx John,

I will make a review. I was glad to get it on the road. Send me an IM if you like.

Heinz

cellarman
07-10-2010, 12:39 PM
Heinz

Thank you so much for that tutorial at least I know that the product is worth the investment. I normally do a hand held nadir shot and providing I get my body as far away as possible then PTGUI can cope with the stitching. However I am now trying HDR and for this a hand held is not appropriate.

Also as an experiment I loaded all your images into PTGUI and stitched them all at the same time. The result was quite surprising. All I had to do was a little bit of leveling and out popped a very reasonable panorama with few errors. If this works every time then it will be a great time saver.

BTW are you using PTGUI or PTGUI Pro ?

Many thanks
Brian

hindenhaag
07-10-2010, 03:08 PM
Brian,

It is a pleasure to do this. By placing the pics I like to give people a chance to test around with them in Ptgui Pro, Autopano Giga , etc.

Normally I use a quicker workflow as well, just found it useful in the beginning to do it that way. I will revise to optimize the video, take out some ghosts and stitching errors. In first case I wanted to set up a workflow for newbies to help them around some tricky corners.

I use PTGui Pro.

Heinz

panocanarias
07-11-2010, 09:43 AM
Well, after having a look at DennisS' and Heinz' quick-tuts, I'm just thinking about ...
Why not use PTGUIs "viewpoint correction" to optimize the extra "Ninja Patch Shot"?
Using a marker at the ground (a coin, e.g.), the tripod could be moved sideways so that the "Ninja Patch Shot" covers almost exactly the first nadir shot,
but only almost; they always will differ a bit.
This should easlily be corrected with the viewpoint correction (just for the Ninja patch shot). No?
I made a quick test with the pictures provided by Heinz. Easily done (no need for CPs by hand). Looks quite good.

Salu2, Klaus

DennisS
07-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Why not use PTGUIs "viewpoint correction" to optimize the extra "Ninja Patch Shot"?
Go ahead. I now always check the "viewpoint correction" after aligning the patch to the Nadir shot. Sometimes it makes no difference. Other times it fixes stitching errors.

hindenhaag
07-11-2010, 09:28 PM
Viewpoint correction will be an addition of course.

I will do a test wether re-levelling is a must or if it might work without.

Cheers

Heinz

John Houghton
07-12-2010, 01:06 AM
Minor re-levelling isn't necessary if the VP option is used. You can take the nadir shot offset by a metre and with the camera at 45 degrees and the VP correction will still work. (Only for flat floors, of course).

John

cellarman
07-22-2010, 01:16 PM
Hi Everyone

Well I have had my new Nadir adapter now for 10 days and I have to say that I am wholly disappointed with it. Now either I am doing something drastically wrong, or I have the wrong set up. Despite watching the various tutorials ( which I thank you all for taking the time), I find that the extra workflow involved in preparing the shots is just too time consuming. Never once has the adapter produced anything but disappointing Nadir shots that have either leave me with gaping holes to patch, or tiny slits to rectify. I really wanted this device or something similar to enable me to produce HDR panos but I shall have to go back to hand held shots.

Please do not misunderstand me, I would imagine that this adapter will fit in well with some of you, I am not trying to put people off buying it. All I would like to say is if you can get chance to trial it then do so, I believe it is not for everyone.

On the subject of workflow I can produce a full 360 x 180 panorama using PTGUI pro and a hand held Nadir at arms length, and in most cases with out having to use Alpha channels to mask my feet. I simply reduce the image parameters on the Nadir shot from 100 to anything as low as 1 with little need for any retouching. My only reason for buying the adapter was to steady the bracketed shots for the Nadir in HDR.

Please I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest, my belief is that we should work together and share our experiences with like minded people. This is just my personal opinion, and if anyone else has had a similar problems then people should know. For me I think I have wasted my money, but we suffer for our art, do we not.

Brian

nick fan
07-22-2010, 07:31 PM
Hi Everyone

Well I have had my new Nadir adapter now for 10 days and I have to say that I am wholly disappointed with it. Now either I am doing something drastically wrong, or I have the wrong set up. Despite watching the various tutorials ( which I thank you all for taking the time), I find that the extra workflow involved in preparing the shots is just too time consuming. Never once has the adapter produced anything but disappointing Nadir shots that have either leave me with gaping holes to patch, or tiny slits to rectify. I really wanted this device or something similar to enable me to produce HDR panos but I shall have to go back to hand held shots.


Hi Brian,

You are using Niokon 10.5mm on D90, right? Are you taking 6 shot around at 0 deg tilt? The Nadir is quite large at this setting. You can use -7.5 to -10 deg tilt to reduce the nadir hole. This will increase the chances of successful patching. Of course, more practices in placing the tripod for correct nadir position will also help.
In fact there are many methods for taking proper nadir shots. The nadir adapter is just an add-on product to make the job done more easily (esp. for beginners in spherical panography). If you manage to patch nadir using other methods, you don't need the nadir adapter. There is a shortage of this adapter at the moment. Just list it in the "classified forum". You will help other member who is eagerly waiting for one. :wink:


nick

DennisS
07-22-2010, 09:35 PM
Well I have had my new Nadir adapter now for 10 days and I have to say that I am wholly disappointed
Brian,

That is truly sad. As with any tool, be it software or hardware, you need to use it correctly to get good results.

I use a D300 and a Nikon 10.5 lens. I shoot 6 around at 0 degrees, 1 up, 1 down and 1 patch shot.

1st you need to make sure your rig is oriented correctly. Please refer to pictures earlier in this thread for an example of what your Nadir shot and the patch shot should look like when you bring them into Photoshop. Your Nadir shot should have 1 tripod leg sticking straight out away from the pano head, right down the center of the picture with the other two legs behind the pano head. Your patch shot will have the two legs sticking into the scene at 60 degrees up and down with the single leg behind the pano head. You should have a clear view of the ground for your patch shot.

Measure from the center of your main rotator to the center of the Nadir adapter pivot point. Multiply that number by two. That is the distance you will slide your rig over.

You take your Nadir shot, lock your rotator, swing the camera out, slide the rig in the direction the single tripod leg is pointed, take your patch shot, bring your patch shot into your favorite editing software, rotate it 180 degrees, then finish processing. Do not rotate your tripod at all. Just slide it over.

Do not give up hope. What works for someone does not necessarily work for all. If you still cannot get it, I am sure there is someone here that will take it off your hands.

Dennis

hindenhaag
07-22-2010, 10:51 PM
Brian,

Sorry to hear about this.

What do you mean by "reducing image parameters of the nadir shot from 100 to anything as low as one" and that you only in some cases have to mask your feet, but in most times you can stitch without masking? May be you have pics for us to understand?

I personally have two problems with the handheld shot: I lost nadir shots because during braketting my hand began to move hanging the D3 "high in the sky, feet possibly out of side, no body in reflecting glasses". To get quick shots I raised the ISO and shot in CL mode, but even then in late afternoon light I lost some handheld nadir shots.
In lower light conditions or with night shots and braketting I am not really able to get a sharp shot without movements even with ISO raised to 3600 or beyond, while many cameras start up the noise problem at lower ISO of 1200 for example.

I personally like to have the nadir adaptor also and especially for these conditions.

I have tried with an extra tripod with a horizontal arm on top, works fine. But I have to carry this extra load and change lot of things while shooting, and I do not like to "miss some of my equipment placed in my back" in busy places while shooting the nadir. This is why I like the nadir adaptor.

I know masking is time consuming especially with bracketed shots and lenses asking several shots per row.

I found it boring masking bracketed 5 nadir shots twice. I tried to optimize my workflow. I take one shot where I can see my tripod nicely, alpha mask it, safe as tiff and use it as "anchor shot" for the other pictures. Then load the anchor pic to ps as well as one of the other nadir shots that you can see both of them. Then copy the alpha channel of the anchor picture to the other one and save. I have set up an "action" of this, so copying, pasting and saving is done automatically. Mask once, copy the rest. Saving a lot of time. This works for Jpeg and RAW.
Now I try to batch process loading all the rest of the nadir shots I have to be masked besides the anchor picture to ps to run the action "copy alpha channel" and save them. But I am not quite sure if a batch process can do this. May be someone else has already solved this problem and can tell us.

"Action" is a nice tool in ps, one click, and it is done.

Anyway, thx for letting us know about your experience and feelings about the nadir adaptor. Only by facing both sides, positive as well as negative experiences help to improve a product.

The last thing I like to mention: this forum, different from others, is a fair one in respecting, accepting, and being open for different opinions. No one will kill you because you said " I am disappointed."

Once again thx,

Heinz

John Houghton
07-22-2010, 11:14 PM
Brian, What do you mean by "reducing image parameters of the nadir shot from 100 to anything as low as one"

He means the Blend Priority parameter, which determines how much of the nadir is used in the blending. Hence, feet at the outer edge of the image can be excluded by using a low blend priority.

John

hindenhaag
07-23-2010, 01:03 AM
thx John,

does it often avoid alpha channel masking? I will give it a try.

Heinz

John Houghton
07-23-2010, 06:35 AM
Heinz, Whether it is practical or not depends on how the images are shot. It's easy enough to try tweaking the blend priorities to get a good blend in the Panorama Editor window. If it's not possible, you can switch to Plan B and add some alpha channel masks instead.

John

DennisS
07-23-2010, 07:43 AM
does it often avoid alpha channel masking?

Before I understood how to use an alpha channel mask, I used the blend priority all the time. It is not hard to do. I achive more consistant results in a shorter amount of time using a mask. It takes me less time to apply a mask than it does to adjust the blend priority. I also never used viewpoint correction because I did not fully understand it. Now that I do, I turn it on all the time.

cellarman
07-23-2010, 01:09 PM
Hi Everyone

Thanks to all of you for your responses and suggestions, I will try and answer each one of you.

Nick
I used the D200 with a Nikon 10.5 rectilinear fish eye ( I haven't used the D90 yet for the Nadir attachment) I set for approx -10deg tilt (or until I can just see the base coming into view) 6 round + 1 for zenith I then normally remove the camera (quick release) stand at arms length again at approx height and take the Nadir. I have tried various tripod positions but none seem to work, hence my disappointment. As you say it is only an aid to achieve the Nadir shot and I shall persevere for a while, but if in the end it is not for me then I shall put it up for sale.

Dennis
As you quite rightly say it is all down to correct orientation. Obviously you have tried the adapter and it works for you. But I must admit that the amount of work that you put into post prep and production just seems to be very long winded. Now I am not trying to upset any purists here as I myself admit that I have on occasions spent an evening correcting my work because I am not happy with the result, but this is not the norm. I am not going to give up and I shall keep on trying so watch this space.

Heinz
It is as John explained it is within image parameters in the nadir shot using the Blend Priority parameter, I normally set for a figure of 25, but I have gone as low as 1. Using that method I have on occasion had to use a mask, but it was far less time consuming than the other methods I came across. Once I have taken my 6 round and 1 Zenith I release the camera and NN3 and hold it at the approx height that it left the tripod, I then slide the tripod and myself as far back as I can reach keeping the camera as near to the original orientation as possible, then take the shot. But of course you all know this and I am sure I am not teaching you anything new, although sometimes a quick reminder of the older methods spark new interests. I agree that to hand hold for bracketed (unless you are using a very high shutter speed) then there is bound to be a slight offset. But this was the reason I wanted to try the new adapter. To be honest I now cheat a little bit if I need to achieve an HDR pano. I always shoot in Raw so if I need to simulate HDR I just make a few series of under & over exposed raw images and then introduce them to PTGUI or layer them in Photoshop. ( OK big workload there but really it is just the same as messing around with bracketed images ) and by the way still using a hand held Nadir.

My thanks to all of you for letting me have my rant. All your suggestions are taken on board with my greatest respect to your art and profession. This is a good forum and I am pleased to be a part of it, keep up the good work

Brian

DennisS
07-23-2010, 05:05 PM
But I must admit that the amount of work that you put into post prep and production just seems to be very long winded. To the untrained eye, it does seem like a lot of work. When I read my first tutorial on alpha channel masks (thanks John) I thought I would never get it. It actually takes less than a minute to apply the alpha channel mask. You do not have to be real precise. In a video shown earlier, it was killing me the amount of time spent actually applying the mask. Maybe the instructor slowed down for instruction sake. Good move. The real time saver comes during stitching the masked images. With a well calibrated rig, it takes 5 to 10 minutes from opening the images in Photoshop to a final stitch in PTGui. I tend to enjoy the process, so I never rush it. This is a hobby for me, after all.

When you start doing panoramas with people in them (and you should. They are much more interesting.), you must become the master of the alpha mask in order to take care of ghost images and floating body parts.

Actually I am the one who pushed Nick to develop and manufacture the Nadir Adapter. It took me about 6 months from the time I made my first one (not my original idea or design, by the way) to the time I had the technique down. For monopod work I always use a hand held Nadir patch shot.

When are you going to share your work with the rest of us?

cellarman
07-28-2010, 10:50 AM
Dennis

I suppose I had better put my money where my mouth is. I am not going to bore you with the sort of work I am asked to do, I am more concerned with mastering this nadir adapter. I am like a dog with a bone, I shall not give up until I have conquered it, or it conquers me, if the latter be true then it will be up for sale. Needless to say your input is welcome so I have uploaded some files as an experiment.

Forgetting the subject matter (my garden and washing line on a rather dull British afternoon, sorry) I took all the images as I normally would except at the end I used the Nadir adapter first, trying to incorporate your suggestions, and then stood back and did a hand held nadir shot.

In the sample there are 2 PTGUI projects, both self explanatory by there titles. On the hand held nadir you may have to drag image 7 to the bottom in panorama editor and them fix the control points. I then went into image parameters and down to image 7. Moved across to blend priority and reduce that to 10 and voila, feet disappear.

The adapter shots clearly shows gaps and I can get away with filling them in but again why create extra work. Comments good and bad are welcome, all I am aiming to achieve is a good workflow with the adapter if possible. I need to be able to trust what I take and not have to go back and re-shoot.

BTW I totally agree with you using alpha with people shots, I am working on that.

Brian

http://www.360viz.co.uk/tests/adapter v had held.zip

cellarman
07-28-2010, 10:54 AM
BTW I am having a few problems with my Internet connection, so if there are problems with the download then please let me know.

Thanks everyone

Brian

nick fan
07-28-2010, 11:59 PM
The adapter shots clearly shows gaps and I can get away with filling them in but again why create extra work. Comments good and bad are welcome, all I am aiming to achieve is a good workflow with the adapter if possible. I need to be able to trust what I take and not have to go back and re-shoot.

Hi Brian,

I placed your "nadir" shot over the normal -90 deg shot. Nadir shot was rotated to match the -90 deg shot. Area other than the tripod and NN is masked. 55
The attached photo shows that your need to move your tripod further away to gain more clearance for the nadir.
The nadir shot will then have enough coverage for nadir patching. However, it will be more distorted as it is further away from center of image. You can use ptgui with the same lens parameter as the rest of images to defish the nadir shot before patching in image editing program. If the nadir shot has enough feature for control point placement, you can include the nadir shots in stitching. Just turn on viewpoint correction for the nadir shot.
I see that a longer nadir adapter will help to provide larger clearance for nadir patching. However, it will impose more torque on NN3 lower rail and tripod (making it easier to tip over).
Also, as shown in the attached image, removing your tripod head below NN3 will greatly reduce the nadir footprint, making my nadir adapter a more valid accessory :wink:.


Nick

John Houghton
07-29-2010, 12:12 AM
Brian, No problems with the download. I came to the same conclusions as Nick. The main problem is the overlap of the quick release adapter and the struts on the tripod that brace the legs. You might try dispensing with the quick release adapter. Increasing the sideways shift + VP correction will still be better than handheld shots in poor light conditions, when there is significant risk of blurring due to camera shake.

John

nick fan
07-29-2010, 12:33 AM
I have set up a panorama with D200, Nikkor 10.5, NN3 and Nadir Adaptor. The set includes 2 videos, one about preparing, alpha mask nadir and stitching the panorama with PTGuiPro and PS CS4. The second one explains the set up of the rig and shows the effect of the nadir adaptor.

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/NNNadirAdaptorVideo.zip Video

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/D200_10.zip Pics of pano

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/SetUPNadirAdaptor.zip Video

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/SetUpNNNadirAdaptor.zip Pics of Set Up



Hi Heniz,

Thanks a lot for spending your time make the tutorial videos. It will help a lot of people learning how to use the nadir adapter and nadir patching in general.
A suggestion. Maybe you can reduce the video resolution to help people with slower internet connection.


Nick

hindenhaag
07-29-2010, 04:04 AM
Hi Nick,

I will try to make a revision next weekend and follow some hints I got from John. Actually I did not mingle around with ghosts and CA in first case, just wanted to show the workflow. But seeing this discussion, I will try to add a part on how to use the tripod to get enough room to reach the area below the tripod.

Cellarman, what sort of head are you using on your tripod. I would not have expected such a big plate.

Heinz

cellarman
07-29-2010, 01:12 PM
Hi Everyone

Just a quick note to say thank you to you all. Nick & John I understand your comments and will try later over the weekend. I must admit that I had not tried the shots without the tripod quick release. Although I cannot quite understand how some of you are getting perfect shots using the coin under the tripod, and then swinging the nadir arm out, moving away and re-aligning. Nick one of your suggestions was to make the Nadir arm extend further, forgive me but I am puzzled with that one.

Heinz the large base under the NN is the quick release head.

Looking forward to trying out your ideas soon, I really do want this to work.

Brian

DennisS
07-31-2010, 06:46 PM
Brian,

Take a very close look at this picture, which was posted early in the thread:
http://www.dlsphoto.net/Panoguide/230Offset.jpg

Now take a look at your images:
http://www.dlsphoto.net/Panoguide/Brian.jpg

I can see why you are having issues. I will try to address each one here. Even though my home made pano head has 50mm more offset, what follows still applies to your situation.

1) Your tripod uses a second set of braces on each leg. My Manfrotto tripod does not. The second set of braces MIGHT be getting in the way of the patch shot.

2) I use a very short center column. It would appear you are using a standard length one. When the center column extends down, it will interfear with the tripod leg in the patch shot.

3) Your quick release clamp is way too wide and is overlapping the two tripod legs in the patch shot. I use a Manfrotto 394 quick release system mounted directly between the tripod and pano head. The orientation puts the clamping lever away from the tripod legs, so there is no overlap.

4) As John has suggested, you are not moving over far enough. Swing the camera out, then measure the distance from the center of your lens to the center of your rotator. That is the distance you need to move over. Until you get very comfortable at moving your rig, I would suggest you put two rulers on the ground before you move your rig. I can see a little rotation in your rig after you moved it over. Rulers on the ground will help eliminiate this rotation.

Using a coin is another way to help make sure you moved over far enough. Before you start moving things, place a coin direcly below the very center of the tripod. After you have moved over, look down into your camera to see if the coin is in the middle of the shot. If not, adjust as necessary.

When you are practicing moving your rig, bring both the Nadir and patch shot into the same image in Photoshop. Set the opacity of the patch to 50%. You will quickly see any overlap. Make sure there is no overlap before you start stitching. If there is overlap, you will not be happy with the resulting stitch.

One more thing, get a wireless remote control. Your feet will never be in the shot (unless you are doing the patch shot hand held).

I am glad you posted some images. It goes a very long way in helping you get it right. I would first move over the correct distance before purchasing another tripod that does not have the second set of braces. You will probably need a shorter center column.

Dennis

hindenhaag
08-01-2010, 06:39 AM
Hi Brian,

I shot some test pics with D90 NN3 today and now I understand your problem.

As the others already mentioned, two problems, an additional leg system in your tripod, big quick release plate interfering the nadir shots.

2x distance rotation center to pivot point of the adaptor reads 2x 10.8cm = 21.6cm with my equipment with a lower rail setting for D90 NN3 with the adaptor is 50.

Trying this with NN3 Ez-Leveller II there is no problem to stitch. May be it even works with reducing blending parameters in PTGui besides alpha masking.

I got the same problem like you with QRC2, which measures 6x6 cm. I did not stitch the arca swiss style clamp which is smaller.

First quick conclusion: because of the offset of the adaptor dealing with torque and weight of the equipment, we have to be aware, that nothing of our equipment interferes with the small room in between the two nadir shots. No big quick release plates, or long center columns as Dennis mentioned several times.

Till now, I had no problem with NN3 or NN5 Ez-LevellerII with adaptor NN mounted directly to the tripod. Tested with FX and as well as with DX Nikon cameras.

Conclusion: Check your PD = Pivot distance from rotation center of rotator to pivot of the adaptor of around 21 cm to slide your tripod backwards for D90 NN3, if this is right, move further backwards and use View point correction in PTGui if necessary, if this does not help, try to change or remove your quick release plate.

I will try to place the pics tonight cause I only have a PS version on my PC at home to let you see the results.

BTW Nick, might be handsome to have a white mark for pivot point on the adaptor to measure the PD more easily cause this varies with LRS . I have already marked mine as you can see on the pics later on..

Regards

Heinz

cellarman
08-01-2010, 12:23 PM
Dennis/Heinz/everyone

Thanks to all of you for taking time with me on this. Despite numerous attempts over the weekend trying different variations it would seem that the problem is more to do with my tripod than the adapter. I stripped the tripod down to the bare essentials, unfortunately I cannot remove the braces as they are riveted, but could not produce anything of consistency. Having spent hours on this now I have come to the conclusion that I shall have to put my hand in my pocket and purchase a new tripod. Suggestions would be welcome, I have always gone for a sturdy well balanced tripod, hence the Velbron, but it would now seem that I was perhaps wrong with this. If there is something lightweight and sturdy that any of you can recommend and falls into the criteria that has been mentioned, then please let me know. Once again many thanks for your help.

Brian

DennisS
08-01-2010, 01:16 PM
Glad to hear you are making progress. Keep at it. All this effort will pay off as you start producing great panoramas.

I use the Manfrotto 055XB. No issues. Make sure you can get a short center column. Do not cut the one that comes with the tripod, as you may need to use it later for something else other than panography. Don't get one with a center column that pivots. Your Nadir adapter eliminates the need to pivot the center column.

hindenhaag
08-01-2010, 03:06 PM
Brian,

and all new users of the new Nadir Adaptor. I did test shots with D90 10.5 NN3 Nadir Adaptor Gitzo GT1541. Normal shot is ok. Then I placed the QRC-2 clamp on top of the rotator, and this simulates one of Brians problems with his quick release clamp. The clamp is nearly 6x6cm. Third test is with the arca style clamp. It is smaller and may be if you use it visa versa it may work. Especially cause I had to place the plates on top of the rotator. At this moment there is no camera plate availible from my dealer. There should be a little bit more space with the plates below the rotator.

I add a pic of my tripods, left to right Feisol CT-3372LV NN5, Gitzo GT1541 NN3/R1, Manfrotto 055ProB which I used before the Feisol with NN5. Feisol comes with a plate as well as a centre column. Very light, rock solid.

Heinz

hindenhaag
08-01-2010, 03:29 PM
next pics,

Heinz

cellarman
08-03-2010, 12:53 PM
Hi everyone

The story so far. Well after trawling my local photo establishments it would seem that no one had a decent tripod to sell to me, indeed they were rather vague when I asked for one with a short centre column. So I decided to attack my Velbron and strip it right down. I removed the stabilizers, and took out the centre column support leaving me with a much lighter tripod and with more versatility without losing the stability (I do not recommend this treatment to your beloved three legged rig, but needs must in my case) To cut a long story short, my first shot with the Nadir adapter after all this butchery was incredible. A perfect stitch, no holes, everything blended into place. I did a few more just to make sure and all was well. To be honest I didn't even use the coin to line up, I just slid the tripod to a point that I thought was passed the centre line and used viewpoint correction. The difference was amazing, less time was involved , no retouching, its like I had just woken up and won the lottery.

I shall upload pics when I have given it a proper test in a proper working environment. I am sure you do not want to see any more images of my garden, because after all those test shots I am sick of the site of it. I am indebted to this forum and especially certain members who have done so much to aid me with my problems, you know who you are. To any new users I say listen to these guys, they know what they are talking about because they have had similar problems and have worked through them together.

And to you Nick, sorry if I sounded so negative about this adapter, it was only frustration, keep up the good work all of you.

Brian

JohnD
09-03-2010, 02:02 AM
Hello Everyone,

What a great, informative thread. Unfortunately I haven't had enough experience to fully understand it! I've just bought an NN5 and used it for the first time yesterday. I haven't yet worked out how to deal with the Nadir. On my first attempt it appears as a black hole in an otherwise reasonable image. I'm sorry if this has been asked a hundred times but can anyone point me to a basic tutorial on how to patch up the nadir?

Many thanks

John

nick fan
09-03-2010, 03:18 AM
Hello Everyone,

What a great, informative thread. Unfortunately I haven't had enough experience to fully understand it! I've just bought an NN5 and used it for the first time yesterday. I haven't yet worked out how to deal with the Nadir. On my first attempt it appears as a black hole in an otherwise reasonable image. I'm sorry if this has been asked a hundred times but can anyone point me to a basic tutorial on how to patch up the nadir?

Many thanks

John

http://www.johnhpanos.com/ptgvpt.htm
http://www.fromparis.com/technical/quicktime-vr-nadir-creation-and-patching-with-photoshop.html
http://www.rosaurophotography.com/html/PS4.html

hindenhaag
09-03-2010, 03:35 AM
John,

if you download the new beta version of PTGui, trial possible, you can mask the tripod directly in PTGui. This works similar to alpha mask in PS. Import the images to PTGui, > Source images, click the nadir shot, turns blue, >Mask, use the red button to take out the tripod etc. Do the same with the second nadir shot, by clicking source images.

Then stitch...

Heinz

JohnD
09-04-2010, 12:07 AM
Thanks Nick and Heinz,

I went through the information you provided and went out yesterday and got the correct shots for the Nadir. I've downloaded the beta version of PT Gui but haven't yet processed the images. The main thing is though I'm now understanding the comments in the thread beginning to make sense. I shot my first outdoors panorama yesterday and shot on aperture priotity with auto white balance - oops! When I achieve something not too embarrassing I'll post it up to request critical comments.

Thanks again,

John

hindenhaag
09-04-2010, 12:50 AM
uupppssss John,

You are using wrong settings. You have to set everything to manual mode: focus, aperture, WB. The best aperture for panos and lenses is F8 or F11. There are several methods to find the right shutter speed. Most times I set mode to A, walk around my stops and watch the shutter speed. Specially have a look to highlight and shadow areas. Then make a choice, better underexpose then overexpose and set mode to M. A burnt out sun cannot be repaired. Set focus to hyperfocal distance.

Camera has to be set to manual cause otherwise you get a mix of everything, a mosaic of apertures, WB's, focus , etc.

What camera lens combo do you use? Feel free to ask whatever you like. Everybody on forums started as a beginner. And was eager to take his first shots as soon as possible. But this business is not a plug and play combo.But we try to get you on the road as soon as possible. :wink:

Regards,

Heinz

JohnD
09-04-2010, 02:26 AM
I'm using a D3 with Nikkor 14-24 f2.8. I used in to capture my first panorama in Manchester Cathedral. I set it on manual and bracketed my exposures by varying the shutter speeds with a constant aperture of f16. I had focus on auto. Perhaps I should have set to hyperfocal distance. I did have WB set to auto and I wonder if this is responsible for some odd colour patches on some parts of the images.

Many thanks for the advice in your most helpful post and my apologies for drifting off-topic in this thread

Regards,

John

JohnD
09-04-2010, 02:28 AM
Forgot to mention, I processed the images in Photomatix pro before importing into PTGui

hindenhaag
09-04-2010, 05:35 AM
John, I think this is the reason for some odd colours. Inside the cathedral you have mixed light, with changes in the windows or reflexions from light on wood , etc. You may use the "Pre" set in WB to let the camera make a mix. You also might use a greycard or colorchecker passport in different places in an extra shot. In very rare situations I use the Expodisc with "Pre". Shooting Raw you can easily adapt it. I use braketting in CL mode, this saves time. Better shoot in hyperfocal distance. You have to set focus to manual.

Raise the last row as high as possible, -22.5° pitch or even less to avoid a lot of masking work to take away the legs of the tripod. Depends on the tripod you use. You have to try to know you have enough overlap to the nadir shots. You might try to stitch in exposure fusion in PTGui, and then export the different blended panos to photomatix. I often get nice results without photomatix on top. Set HDR to exposure fusion in advanced set up in PTGui.


Heinz

sparrowhawk360
12-27-2010, 01:18 AM
Hi,

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/NNNadirAdaptorVideo.zip Video

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/D200_10.zip Pics of pano

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/SetUPNadirAdaptor.zip Video

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/SetUpNNNadirAdaptor.zip Pics of Set Up

Think it helps a little bit,

regards

Heinz

Hi Heinz

Thanks for taking the time t produce and upload these. The links seem to be broken at the moment. Could you upload them again? I would love to see thee before I consider the Nadir adapter.
Thanks

hindenhaag
12-27-2010, 02:38 AM
I am working on these. There will be infos about nadir adaptor soon.

Heinz

Adamo
01-15-2011, 01:59 PM
Hi,
I shot this pano as a nadir adapter test. Cannot stitch nadir correctly. Also, I included two nadirs masked by me.
I would appreciate, if someone would tell me what am I doing wrong.
Should I be tilting lens -15 deg down and shoot nadirs at 90 deg down?
here are my images:
http://sharesend.com/51j15
Thank you!

DennisS
01-15-2011, 04:41 PM
Adamo,

Providing pictures really helps diagnose what is going on.

Take a look at the first page of this thread. You will see an image showing the Nadir shot with the patch shot overlayed.

Your pano head is not oriented correctly with the tripod.

Orienting the pano head with your tipod is critical, or the images will not work.

With your camera pointing down to take the Nadir shot, one tripod leg should be pointing straight out into the middle of the picture.

When you swing the camera out and slide your rig over, you will see two tripod legs in the picture, spread out so you have a clear shot of the floor.

Dennis

hindenhaag
01-16-2011, 12:39 AM
Adamo,

I send you a mail. Before the video is ready, you can download this link with all the shots you need to try to mask and stitch the nadir shots.

You can check the tripod set up as DennisS mentioned: the lower rail has to be opposite of the third leg in one line! This means the NN5 has to be set up in correct 90° to the two legs = on a straight line of the third leg.

Set up of pics: 0°; +5°, +7.5° for R1/R10 check, 2x +60° at 180° visa versa to check horizon connection of the lens, +90°, 2x Nadir -90° with Nadir Adaptor set up. Set up to play around...

http://homepage.mac.com/hindenhaag/filechute/D300s_Samyang%208mm_f3.zip

Cheers,
Heinz

droy
05-27-2011, 06:04 AM
Hi,

I have set up a panorama with D200, Nikkor 10.5, NN3 and Nadir Adaptor. The set includes 2 videos, one about preparing, alpha mask nadir and stitching the panorama with PTGuiPro and PS CS4. The second one explains the set up of the rig and shows the effect of the nadir adaptor.

Two maps include the pics of the pano - for those who want to play around on their own - and the pics of the D200, 10.5, NN3, Ez-LevellerII Gitzo GT 1541T

The workflow in the video shows my own decision to create a panorama, there are many ways to Rome and might be that others do it in another way. Same with using the EZ-LevellerII, I can do it as well without it and use the tripod legs to adjust, I simply prefer to use the leveller instead of adjusting tripods legs.

I have set this up cause there have been questions around the nadir adaptor, stitching, and alpha masks. Just to try to give "newbies" a help to start up. Not to start a lot of threads with those who know how to do it. Camera orientation "on'' "off" etc.

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/NNNadirAdaptorVideo.zip Video

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/D200_10.zip Pics of pano

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/SetUPNadirAdaptor.zip Video

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/SetUpNNNadirAdaptor.zip Pics of Set Up

Think it helps a little bit,

regards

Heinz

Hi Heinz

Love to get my hands on these video/pictures. :)

hindenhaag
06-02-2011, 10:11 PM
Hi Droy,

I send info tomorrow.

Heinz

Panotaker
09-25-2011, 11:41 AM
I am having problems with my Nadir Adapter. I think it needs to be longer. It doesn't swing out far enough for my setup. I am using a Canon 5D MKII and the Canon 15mm f/2.8 fisheye lens and a brand new Nodal Ninja 4 with the nadir adapter. I followed the tutorials to the letter and I think I am doing everything right. I put a plumb bob underneath the center of the tripod and put a coin there. I measured the distance that I am supposed to slide the tripod over and it comes out to 9 inches. I take the nadir shot with the one tripod leg in the middle of the picture like it shows in the tutorial. I then slide the tripod over 9 inches and swivel the nadir adapter and position it so that the other two tripod legs are in the picture at 60 degrees. I look in the view finder and the coin is dead center and then take the nadir patch shot. I then load up the pictures and mask the tripod and align the 8 images, 6 around, one up and the nadir shot. I then load the nadir shot and mask everything except the floor. I add control points and optimize it with the pano and it does a perfect stitch, except for a small black spot on the floor. It looks to me like the center tripod leg on the nadir shot, overlaps the front of the pano bracket of the patch shot. Since both of those shots are masked out, I get a black hole in the final panorama. The only way i can get it to work is to slide the tripod back around 12 inches instead of the 9 inches that it calls for. To me, I think if the nadir adapter was a little longer, it would swing out farther and I would be able to put the camera right over the coin on the floor with out the center tripod leg leaving the black hole in my picture . Does anybody have a better solution or do I have to keep sliding the tripod back 12 inches instead of 9 inches. Either I am not using the nadir adapter correctly, or Nodal Ninja needs to make a longer swiveling nadir adapter. Either that, or I need a different tripod that has a smaller foot print. The center column is not the problem since I can't see it in my shots. What I need is a quad pod. I am open to suggestions. Thanks.

Ralph

nick fan
09-25-2011, 08:12 PM
I am having problems with my Nadir Adapter. I think it needs to be longer. It doesn't swing out far enough for my setup. I am using a Canon 5D MKII and the Canon 15mm f/2.8 fisheye lens and a brand new Nodal Ninja 4 with the nadir adapter. I followed the tutorials to the letter and I think I am doing everything right. I put a plumb bob underneath the center of the tripod and put a coin there. I measured the distance that I am supposed to slide the tripod over and it comes out to 9 inches. I take the nadir shot with the one tripod leg in the middle of the picture like it shows in the tutorial. I then slide the tripod over 9 inches and swivel the nadir adapter and position it so that the other two tripod legs are in the picture at 60 degrees. I look in the view finder and the coin is dead center and then take the nadir patch shot. I then load up the pictures and mask the tripod and align the 8 images, 6 around, one up and the nadir shot. I then load the nadir shot and mask everything except the floor. I add control points and optimize it with the pano and it does a perfect stitch, except for a small black spot on the floor. It looks to me like the center tripod leg on the nadir shot, overlaps the front of the pano bracket of the patch shot. Since both of those shots are masked out, I get a black hole in the final panorama. The only way i can get it to work is to slide the tripod back around 12 inches instead of the 9 inches that it calls for. To me, I think if the nadir adapter was a little longer, it would swing out farther and I would be able to put the camera right over the coin on the floor with out the center tripod leg leaving the black hole in my picture . Does anybody have a better solution or do I have to keep sliding the tripod back 12 inches instead of 9 inches. Either I am not using the nadir adapter correctly, or Nodal Ninja needs to make a longer swiveling nadir adapter. Either that, or I need a different tripod that has a smaller foot print. The center column is not the problem since I can't see it in my shots. What I need is a quad pod. I am open to suggestions. Thanks.

Ralph

can you show us a small picture of nadir position of the stitched pano and the nadir shot? Do you see the tripod legs in the 6 shots around? Maybe you should tilt the lens down by 5-15 deg to reduce the nadir hole first. Some pictures will give answers to these questions.



NIck

hindenhaag
09-25-2011, 10:15 PM
Hi and welcome to the forum,

Sounds like you have to go further to the 12 inches. With special set ups you have to go further than DPD = double pivot distance to get free space between the tip of the tripod leg and corner of nadir adapter.

I stitch with PTGuiPro. What I do I click the viewpoint tab in >optimizer >advanced for Zenith and Nadir Shots. That should work out fine.

346348347349350351352353

But would be fine to have a set of pics to test ourselves.

Heinz

Panotaker
09-27-2011, 05:46 AM
My problem is exactly as picture number 3 above where the center leg and the panoramic bracket overlap. The only way I see to fix it is to slide the tripod over around 12 inches instead of the 9 inches that it calls for and then click on the viewpoint tab. It is either that or the nadir adapter needs to have more swing, but then it will probably sag a little do to the weight of the camera. I'll try to post some pictures later. Thanks.

Ralph

hindenhaag
09-27-2011, 06:07 AM
Ralph go for the 12 inch. I have to expand DPD by 3.5 inches and that works.

We'll wait for the pics.:001_smile:

Heinz

BaltimoreBob
11-17-2011, 07:52 AM
Yes - I use it and am rather pleased.
What I do is when setting up I hang a *plumb-bob from the center columm then put a marker under it for the centering. Then turn the camera out on the adaptor and move the tripod to line marker up the focus box by looking thru the view finder. I may or may not remove the marker and shoot the patch. With the marker in place I've got a logo in the panorama

* Use a rubber chair leg protecter lined with a piece of elastic to get a snug fit with a hole in the bottom center, a piece of waxed cord thru the hole to which the plumb-bob is tied. The cord moves the plumb-bob up and down as needed. Its held in place by the snug fiot of the eleastic lines protector to the center column

hindenhaag
11-17-2011, 08:28 AM
Hi Bob,

Thx for sharing.
Heinz

BaltimoreBob
11-17-2011, 12:58 PM
Heinz
A pleasure...
Bob

slerman
03-06-2012, 08:48 AM
The nadir adaptor is a great addition to the NN5. Much easier. Thanks for all of the advice and photos here. I've attached my own "cheat sheet"--maybe it will help others!
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7206/6959272675_172b04fdb9_b.jpg

hindenhaag
03-06-2012, 11:47 AM
Hi,

thx a lot for sharing. One serious comment. To take the the coin as reference and move the tripod sideways so that the lens axis is above the coin for Nadir2 Shot, does not always create enough space between the tip of the third leg of the tripod in Nadir1 and the corner of the Adapter in Nadir2. You use DPD = double pivot distance. Often you have to move the tripod further aside to create the space.

524525526527

Cheers,
Heinz

ohanlonj
06-19-2012, 02:10 PM
Do you then have to use "viewpoint correction" to compensate for not being above the same point?

nick fan
06-19-2012, 07:11 PM
Do you then have to use "viewpoint correction" to compensate for not being above the same point?

Yes, you should use vp correction to get best result.

Nick

Crazy360
08-09-2012, 10:48 PM
Hi guys, as a continuation to my questions here:

http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/showthread.php?4901-NN3-or-NN4&p=37494&viewfull=1#post37494

related to the viewpoint correction with PTGUI, what is the correct workflow?

I'm using 550D w 10-22mm and using 8 shots at 0degree, 4 shots at +/- 60 degrees and a Nadir shot (N) + Nadir Adaptor shot. (N+)
1)Is the Nadir shot necessary?
2)For viewpoint correction in PTgui, do we add N or N+? If N+, do we will need an N shot?

I tried adding N+ (without N) in PTgui but fail to stitch correctly, and so I stitched normally with N and replaced with N+ in photoshop.
(followed the tutorial steps listed here: http://moonshine.homedns.org:2655/pano/pano-howto-tutorial/pano-stiching/)

It worked, but I want to know how vp correction works for a better and faster work flow =]

*Not sure if i should mask the tripod before alignment in the (-60degree shots?), or in the Nadir shot? Sorry all to new to this..are there any good resources/tutorials for stitching as well?

ps. wanna thank Heinz for his response so far =]

Jon

hindenhaag
08-09-2012, 11:37 PM
Hi Jon,


611612613614

Some basics about workflow: use the special Nadir set up of the tripod and panohead that lower rail is 90° to the two tripod legs and in line with leg three, EZ - Leveler II blue screws on top of legs. 0° of rotator should show towards you. Always start the shots around at 0° position. Shoot clockwise that will prevent the connections of the system to come loose. Check camera that everything is set to manual: WB, Aperture, Shutter Speed, ISO and Focus. Mount the rig.

Level once before the first shot. The bubble will move during your trip around but that does not matter at all.

Take your shots around and move rotator back into 0° position. Take Zenith by setting Pitch - upper rail - to +90°and take Zenith shot. Move camera down to -90° and take Nadir1 shot. Lock rotator lock that lower rail stays in place while moving your tripod sideways in direction of third leg by minimum DPD Distance. Open up Nadir adapter and turn camera into nadir2 position. Close Nadir Adapter Lock. Re level once for Nadir 2 shot. Take Nadir2 shot. Open lock, bring back camera in closed Adapter position and close lock again.

Use this always as your standard workflow. So after a while this will happen automatically without thinking about it. On sight there is enough to do and you have to think and make decisions about without thinking about basics.

I do not move tripod with open Nadir Adapter and I always lock the rotator before moving it. Why, it happened to me that without closed locks the whole panohead with camera on top suddenly turned around. Lucky me that it did not fall on the ground.

Now, this is basic workflow for one row and Zenith plus Nadir1 and Nadir2 shot with Nadir Adapter on NN3, NN4, NN5, M1.

Once you tested your camera lens combination, you will know if you can shoot without an extra Zenith shot for example by tilting up +5° for example. This is everyones one choice to do it. But always think about that using the outer circle of the lens does not use the best region of the lens, which is the center. Think about distortion etc etc.

One last important point: Take the Zenith and Nadir shot in 0° Rotator position just moving the camera up and down without changing direction of view. This is important specially for handheld Nadir Shots. Keeping the direction of view will help stitching programs a lot. Compared to our body, just move your head up to sky, via looking straight forward move the head down to look at your feet. This will give PTGui a nice pictures film, sky, horizon, ground. This will stitch easier specially in the area of horizontal overlap.

Taking some more overlap will often take time to shoot. But saves a lot of time on PC.

You have to use the view point tab in PTGui Pro >optimizer > advanced only for Nadir2 shot or handheld ones.

I'll place some more pics this evening.

Feel free to ask.
Heinz

burake
09-20-2012, 07:48 AM
Hi,

I have set up a panorama with D200, Nikkor 10.5, NN3 and Nadir Adaptor. The set includes 2 videos, one about preparing, alpha mask nadir and stitching the panorama with PTGuiPro and PS CS4. The second one explains the set up of the rig and shows the effect of the nadir adaptor.

Two maps include the pics of the pano - for those who want to play around on their own - and the pics of the D200, 10.5, NN3, Ez-LevellerII Gitzo GT 1541T

The workflow in the video shows my own decision to create a panorama, there are many ways to Rome and might be that others do it in another way. Same with using the EZ-LevellerII, I can do it as well without it and use the tripod legs to adjust, I simply prefer to use the leveller instead of adjusting tripods legs.

I have set this up cause there have been questions around the nadir adaptor, stitching, and alpha masks. Just to try to give "newbies" a help to start up. Not to start a lot of threads with those who know how to do it. Camera orientation "on'' "off" etc.

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/NNNadirAdaptorVideo.zip Video

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/D200_10.zip Pics of pano

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/SetUPNadirAdaptor.zip Video

http://web.me.com/hindenhaag/filechute/SetUpNNNadirAdaptor.zip Pics of Set Up

Think it helps a little bit,

regards

Heinz

Hi eveyrone,

I am using NN5 with EZ leveler 2 on Manfrotto 055x ProB with a full frame camera and a fisheye lens (Canon 5d mark2; Canon Ef 8-15)...I am shooting very often indoors in low light conditions...I want to avoid raising ISO for higher shutter speeds so I ordered the nadir adapter which came today...I cannot access the videos Heinz provided and I have no idea how to use the nadir adapter...Any help will be highly appreciated...

Burak

DennisS
09-21-2012, 02:05 AM
Burak,

Read this entire thread from the beginning. There is a ton of information already posted.

Dennis

burake
09-24-2012, 12:13 PM
Dennis thank you very much...Actually I did...But there is (was) so much that I don't understand...There are (were) details that don't mean much to someone who's holding the adapter for the first time in his hands...But after 2 days working, experimeting with the adapter, rereading the thread; now I understand a lot more...
Burak

burake
10-06-2012, 12:58 PM
After having spent some time with the adapter I find it very useful...I want to thank everybody for their contribution to this thread - it was very helpful...

Metroruss
04-30-2013, 11:01 PM
I would also like to say thank you to everyone who posted in this thread, it is a wonderful source of information and it is very greatly appreciated!!

I also hope to be able to see your videos Heinz :)

Have a great day everyone.

Metroruss
04-30-2013, 11:02 PM
I would also like to say thank you to everyone who posted in this thread, it is a wonderful source of information and it is very greatly appreciated!!

I also hope to be able to see your videos Heinz :)

Have a great day everyone.

kosmarnik
04-01-2014, 05:06 PM
Well I ordered mine today along with a RC2 adapter.
I have been using NN5 + Manfrotto x55 pro + ball head for years taking nadir shots with the center column at 90 deg.
It's a bit cumbersome, but works perfectly if you level the nadir shot (2 way hot shoe bubble level is indispensable).

With both Hugin and PTgui having viewpoint correction, it just works, even though my the height of the nadir shot is approximate.
Mind you VP correction only really works on flat surfaces (setting manual CP is recommended, 3-4 should be enough), but then again smart masking works wonders.

The nadir adapter used with an 2 x PD tripod offset should yield perfect nadirs as the camera should be close to the original nodal point.

The reason I decided to finally get the nadir adapter is speed, but also as a help to mask out the pesky long shadows that haunt early/late panos in the sun.

Currently have a bit of a nightmare of a pano to clean, as the shadow is a few meters long and is all over various boulders, no flat surfaces :|

Enough is enough, getting a RC2 adapter too so I don't have to carry a bunch of cameras with me.

My only niggle is the possibility of flex with the adapter, but I hope it's not much.


Also, kudos to Heinz for the nice informative shots for the nadir adapter workings.