setup for Nikon d3s and nikkor 10.5 [Archive] - Nodal Ninja Forum

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lovro
03-22-2010, 09:35 AM
Hi,
I'm looking to buy the R1 pano head to use with my nikon D3s and nikkor 10.5,
if anybody have the same equipment can you please give me the best setup values for it
thanks

lovro

Bill Bailey
03-22-2010, 10:49 AM
The values are more for the lens and not the camera.
Here are the settings:

Nikon 10.5mm f/2.8 DX
3 shots around (shaved lens on full frame sensor)
Tilt angle NPP value
+7.5°
+5° 1.45
0° 2.00
-2.5° 2.30
-7.5°


Nikon 10.5mm f/2.8 DX
4 shots around (shaved lens on full frame sensor)
Tilt angle NPP value
+7.5°
+5° 1.10
0° 1.85
-2.5° 2.05
-7.5°


Bill

lovro
03-22-2010, 11:17 AM
Thank you Bill for your really quick answer ,
but I didn't aspect so many numbers :-)
so please if you can explain the values you gave me,
+7.5° suppose it means up to the zenith
1.45 is it the distance to reach the non paralax point
why the diference between the NPP values with 3 and 4 shots?
one more question the values you gave me are in cm I suppose

hindenhaag
03-22-2010, 02:28 PM
Be aware you use a different angle of view. You have to test the setting yourself anyway. For D3 Sigma 8mm/f3.5 I found settings which sometimes correspond with those of Nick, and sometimes with the data from somebody else. I would first check 0° for NPP.

http://www.hugha.co.uk/NodalPoint/Index.htm#Sigma%208mm

You have to shave your lens:

http://blog.panedia.com/2009/01/19/shaving-the-nikon-105mm-fisheye/

I would go for 4 shots cause you are " a little bit more away from the corners", concerning a lot of "lens problems" and sharpness. Remember, you have to tape the focus before mounting the lens to the ring. And then you are fixed.

Knowing your NPP for 0° and +5°, I would start with a comparison with 0° for 3 and 4 shots and stitch them. You can compare the sharpness , etc., plus you will see the zenith hole.

If you find problems setting the camera body to +5° or you might find problems with the remote control, send me a hint, I think I know a way around. But I do not have a 10.5 to test this.

Success, and feel welcome

Heinz

hindenhaag
03-22-2010, 02:39 PM
Ups,

when there is no data you do not have to use the 7,5°. 1.45 is to reach the the NPP for 5°. When FOV in +5° position covers the zenith hole, you just take your shots at +5°, you do not have to take a zenith shot. But you have a bigger hole for the nadir.

You just have to test this and take your own decision.

Yes it is in cm.

Heinz

hindenhaag
03-22-2010, 02:53 PM
You can mark the NPP of 0° on the lens, go to 5° and move forward to the rotating point. See the difference for the Sigma.

Heinz

lovro
03-23-2010, 01:49 AM
Wow,after you few posts my knowledge about increases dramatically :-)
Now what I can see for VR photography the same 3-4 lenses are the favorite:
Nikkor 10.5 mm
Tokina 10-17 mm
Sigma 8mm
Sigma 10mm
I have the nikkor 16mm and am shooting 6 shots arround +Z+N,
but I decided for wider fisheye lens , is it worth ?
What lens do you suggest me in combination with the FF ( nikon D3)
Thank you for your wide explanations

hindenhaag
03-23-2010, 03:20 AM
Hello,

depends on what we want. I use the Sigma 8mm/f3.5 with the R1, the Nikkor 16mm/f2.8 with the NN5. If your are looking for pole panoramas in crowded places for journalism, a wider lens will be helpful.

I will send you some information from my database at home this evening. Sigma 10-20mm is also one of the favorites.

Regards

Heinz

lovro
03-23-2010, 03:40 AM
I'm looking more at real estate interiors and landscapes (nature), so the primary object for me is quality (here the 16mm works ) but also looking for action VR and sequence shots panos ,with a 10 mm and 170 degrees field view you have more possibilities,
I have also the Nikkor 14-24 but I dont use it very often , for interiors I go for HDR and with more than 8 shots that's a lot of work
that's because the sigma 10-20 don't interests me so much,
journalism panoramas that's not a primary object
thank you Heinz

Bill Bailey
03-23-2010, 06:18 AM
Here is quick time object movie (.mov) that show how the rail settings change slightly with the tilting of a lens:
http://www.nodalninja.com/media/R1_01.mov
special thanks to Frank van Dam

Bill

hindenhaag
03-23-2010, 06:42 AM
Bill,

do you have a shaped Nikkor 10.5 mm to use on your D3x?

Heinz

Bill Bailey
03-23-2010, 07:16 AM
Bill,
do you have a shaped Nikkor 10.5 mm to use on your D3x?
Heinz

shaved yes

hindenhaag
03-23-2010, 09:25 AM
May be you used a sigma 8mm as well, do you personally think the the nikkor 10,5 would be the better choice?

Thx in advance,

Heinz

Bill Bailey
03-23-2010, 10:47 AM
The 10.5 Nikkor is certainly superior to the 8mm Sigma. It's also good if doing work for print.
Bill

hindenhaag
03-23-2010, 12:44 PM
Iovro,

http://www.dpreview.com/lens reviews/tamron_10-24_3p5-5p6_n15/
http://flashpanoramas.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1052.html
http://www.360pano.de/en/tokina-sigma-nikon.html
http://www.lenstip.com/porownaj.php?co=obiektyw&ile=2&add0=360&add1=399
http://www.nikonlinks.com/equipment_lenses_prime-wide.htm

My conclusion of what I have read, my experience with Sigma 8mm/f3.5, and all this versus Nikkor 10.5, Bill's comment and experience with his D3x, you have a much better sharpness for the Nikkor lens compared to the Sigma.

Might be you go for a shaped Nikkor 10,5 DX lens, shoot bracketing 3 or 5 in "CL" mode, with a sandisk 60mb/sec or the new sandisk pro with 90mb/sec this will be a quick job for you. Indoors right now my favorite is the NN5.

Might be, right now you have a problem :wink:.

Even with a 16mm/f2.8, six shots around, bracketing 7 in Cl or even in CH mode, zenith and nadir, Bill won't be ready with his steak for us on the barbecue, not even in "raw mode". :001_cool:

If you like, I will send you a .mov with a sigma lens. When you have the "situation", HDRI, High Resolution, the 14-24mm/f2.8 at zoom 16 or the 50mm/f1.4 might be a good solution for you. But, "this will ask the time for a good steak from Bill".

But the buffer from your D3s and a very quick CF card will help you to be ready before Bill has got his steak, even in "Raw Mode". So take your time, and then afterwards, "enjoy the steaks and a nice evening".

- Besides these jokes believe we are quite serious - :001_smile:

Regards,

Heinz

lovro
03-23-2010, 01:39 PM
actually I realized that the nikon 10.5mm is for me the best choice in combination with the R1
than I'll se if to keep or sell the nikkor 16mm
about the HDR the problem is the time it keeps in post processing , if you have an interior with 5-10
panos is a big difference if you have 4 or 6 shots around ...
Anyway you both gave me a great help .thank you very much!
cheers

lovro

hindenhaag
03-23-2010, 02:00 PM
Pleasure,

this is the sense of this forum. I like it.

Success for your golden goals, and thx for your response.

Heinz

ZoliTeglas
06-13-2010, 11:02 AM
Can anybody tell me the values for an unshaped usage?
I use a D90 and a 10.5 Nikkor.

Furthermore: If I want to start with 4+2. I have to use the cam in landscape mode:confused1:
Sorry for the stupid question: first time i work with the R1

Thanks in advance
Zoli

John Houghton
06-13-2010, 11:06 PM
Furthermore: If I want to start with 4+2. I have to use the cam in landscape mode:confused1:
Sorry for the stupid question: first time i work with the R1

Zoli, You cannot cover the full 360x180 view with only 4+Z+N with an unshaved (not unshaped) 10.5mm fisheye on a D90, whether you have the camera mounted in portrait or landscape orientation. See http://www.vrwave.com/, or load a set of dummy images into PTGui and try different shooting possibilities by positioning the images manually in the Panorama Editor window. You will quickly see what works and what doesn't.
John

ZoliTeglas
06-14-2010, 01:21 AM
Hey John,
thanks for the fast reply.
But my lens works with (nearly) 180 degree, right? Using the D90 I have no shaping effect.

I tried the following: 6 stops (not in the landscape mode) plus Z and N. The result is bad and i asked me why. When i took the Z picture PTGui found no possibility to connect the Z-picture to the other pictures.

The R1 can only work with 0, -5 and -7.5 degree. I tried it with 0 degree. Maybe i tried it in the wrong way. But whats the right way? What degree is helpful and how i take the Z and the N picture to get better results....


Thanks for the link to the database. Now I am a little bit confused. I thought I work fullframe but i forgot the 1.5 factor, right?
All the best and greetings from Germany
Zoli

John Houghton
06-14-2010, 05:22 AM
my lens works with (nearly) 180 degree, right? Using the D90 I have no shaping effect.

You have an fov of 180 degrees across the diagonal of the frame. I'm sorry, but I've no idea what you mean by "shaping effect".




The zenith image should overlap the horizontal row of images without leaving any gaps. Depending on the subject, PTGui might not be able to identify any matching features in the overlap areas. You might be able to assign some control points manually though.

[quote]The R1 can only work with 0, -5 and -7.5 degree. I tried it with 0 degree. Maybe i tried it in the wrong way. But whats the right way? What degree is helpful and how i take the Z and the N picture to get better results....

Instead of pointing the camera straight upwards for the zenith shot (pitch=90), you can tilt the camera up only 65 degrees, say, to bring one edge of the zenith image down to the horizon so that there is a much better chance of finding matching features for control points there. This is easy to do with an NN3 or NN5, but the zenith is always going to be somewhat problematical with the R1.


Thanks for the link to the database. Now I am a little bit confused. I thought I work fullframe but i forgot the 1.5 factor, right?

Correct.

John

hindenhaag
06-14-2010, 06:39 AM
Hallo Zoli,

werfe einen kurzen Blick in Frank's calculator, gebe 10.5 und d90 ein, dann calculate, calculate, dann gebe 6 bilder ein, calculate und Du siehst du hast bei 6 photos ueber 30% overlap.

Du musst 6 photos machen mit der D90. Was hast Du fuer Dein Pano gebraucht? NN3 NN5?

Du kannst wenn Du willst die Fotos an mich mailen, ich checke sie dann mit PtGui und wahrscheinlich koennen wir Dein Problem loesen. Zur Not checke ich die D90 10.5 fuer Dich mit R1 und sende dir Photos. Z + N mit R1 sind kompliziert weil du nicht in NPP aufnehmen kannst.

Denk dran, alle photos in PTGui muessen in Portrait mode importiert werden. Nadir und Zenith musst Du um 90° nach links drehen, sichern und dann importieren. Wenn du die cameraorientieerung nicht ausstelltst, kommt Z + N in landscape mode! Ich lasse dass auf on, und drehe diese photos in ViewNX oder PSBridge um 90° nach links, und alles ist OK.

Wenn du die fotos schickst, sende ich Dir ein Stitching video zureuck an deine mail.

So long

Heinz

hindenhaag
06-14-2010, 11:22 AM
Zoli,

just for information, R1 works from -15° to +12.5°, by changing the upper knob from one side to the other. I just have tried D90 nikkor 10.5 even at +12.5° in NPP with R1. But even with this setting, the zenith shot leaves a small hole, and a much bigger hole in the nadir. :wink:

So you have to take a separate zenith shot, which will be off NPP, and a handheld nadir shot as well as well. And then you have to stitch N and Z manually to the pano.

Not being used to these things, I would recommend you to use a NN3, which works fine With D90 Nikkor 10.5,6 shots around, one zenith at +90, with the new nadir adaptor 2 nadir shots without handheld shot.

And this should stitch in one go when you do not shoot in rare places, small rooms with white walls and ceilings.

Feel free to ask,

Heinz

hindenhaag
06-14-2010, 11:42 AM
BTW, the test was done in portrait mode.

May be you can close the gap by turning the camera in the lens ring from portrait mode to 60° setting, which will set you 180° fov of the diagonal of the lens, which John mentioned, upright down.

May be I can test this the next days.

Cheers

Heinz

ZoliTeglas
06-15-2010, 07:13 AM
You have an fov of 180 degrees across the diagonal of the frame. I'm sorry, but I've no idea what you mean by "shaping effect".


Shaping means not work with Fullframe. OK... the first step is clear. 6 Stops for the horizontal pictures. The Z pic is clear as well and i think i will be able to set the controll points for the Z in PTGui.
What I try to do: Finding the best way for shooting the Nadir picture. I work with a tripod and the R1 and i am not able to shoot a Nadir picture which works out for the stiching process. Maybe i handle it in the wrong way and maybe you have an idea how to get better results.




Instead of pointing the camera straight upwards for the zenith shot (pitch=90), you can tilt the camera up only 65 degrees, say, to bring one edge of the zenith image down to the horizon so that there is a much better chance of finding matching features for control points there. This is easy to do with an NN3 or NN5, but the zenith is always going to be somewhat problematical with the R1.


OK... You think working with the NN5 or NN3 is easier? Maybe i have the change to test this.
John


Thanks man... very helpful!
Peter

ZoliTeglas
06-15-2010, 07:19 AM
Moin Heinz,



Hallo Zoli,

werfe einen kurzen Blick in Frank's calculator, gebe 10.5 und d90 ein, dann calculate, calculate, dann gebe 6 bilder ein, calculate und Du siehst du hast bei 6 photos ueber 30% overlap.


Wo finde ich diesen Calculator?



Du musst 6 photos machen mit der D90. Was hast Du fuer Dein Pano gebraucht? NN3 NN5?


Ich habe nur den R1. Nix anderes!




Du kannst wenn Du willst die Fotos an mich mailen, ich checke sie dann mit PtGui und wahrscheinlich koennen wir Dein Problem loesen. Zur Not checke ich die D90 10.5 fuer Dich mit R1 und sende dir Photos. Z + N mit R1 sind kompliziert weil du nicht in NPP aufnehmen kannst.


Das klingt toll. Ich versuche noch ei noder zwei Tage mein Bestes und hoffe, dass die Ergebnisse brauchbarer werden. Ich bin aber davon ausgegangen, dass der R1 auch in den NPP gesetzt wird! Oder meinst Du, wenn ich 90 Grad nach unten schwenken will?




Denk dran, alle photos in PTGui muessen in Portrait mode importiert werden. Nadir und Zenith musst Du um 90° nach links drehen, sichern und dann importieren. Wenn du die cameraorientieerung nicht ausstelltst, kommt Z + N in landscape mode! Ich lasse dass auf on, und drehe diese photos in ViewNX oder PSBridge um 90° nach links, und alles ist OK.

Wenn du die fotos schickst, sende ich Dir ein Stitching video zureuck an deine mail.

So long

Heinz


Wie? Ich muss PTGui alles im Querformat geben? Auch wenn die Bilder im Hochformat aufgenommen wurden? OK, das wusste ich nicht! Du meinst, wenn ich die Bilder drehe und dann in PTGui werfe dann müsste das Ergebnis besser werden? Das muss ich mal testen. Erschliesst sich mir aber nicht so ganz, wieso das nun so sein muss!
Dir ganz herzlichen Dank für die Hilfe
Bestes
Peter

John Houghton
06-15-2010, 09:44 AM
I work with a tripod and the R1 and i am not able to shoot a Nadir picture which works out for the stiching process. Maybe i handle it in the wrong way and maybe you have an idea how to get better results.

Provided you have PTGui Pro and the nadir is a flat area, you can use the viewpoint correction feature to stitch the nadir shot. There's a tutorial on the PTGui web site at http://www.ptgui.com/examples/vptutorial.html and also one at http://www.johnhpanos.com/ptgvpt.htm.

John