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aussieboy126
02-27-2010, 09:09 PM
I'm playing around trying to get rid of the parallax on my NN5 setup with D3s + 16mm. Currently have 68 upped and 91 lower but still have a few errors. Anyone else got better settings?

If not it's back to moving the lower arm mm by mm to get it just right.

Thanks for any help

Simon Woolley
Australia
http://www.ixl360.com.au

hindenhaag
02-27-2010, 11:12 PM
Hello Simon,

Your lower rail setting should be 86. Upper rail setting for 16mm/f2.8 is correct with 68.

You may use the following link to test your own combination. If you use PTGui for stitching, set the lens setting to "full frame", "circular". Otherwise you get some rare results. PTGui is setting the preferences to normal fisheye below 16mm, or you have to change the preferences.

Before importing the pictures to the stitching software, you should turn the zenith and nadir shots 90? to the left, cause camera orientation set to "On" will turn them around.

I shoot with 6 shots at 60?, +/- 90?.

Nice lens, i am sure you will have fun.

http://www.easypano.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=4162


Heinz

John Houghton
02-28-2010, 02:18 AM
Before importing the pictures to the stitching software, you should turn the zenith and nadir shots 90? to the left, cause camera orientation set to "On" will turn them around.

More correctly, if you have the auto rotation feature of the camera turned on, the rotation data stored in the image for the nadir and zenith shots can be anything, since the gravity sensor gives indeterminate results when the camera is pointing directly up or down. The orientation of all the images as displayed in the thumbnails on the Source Images tab should be the same. It's not sufficient for them all to be simply portrait or landscape; they must all be rotated from the camera's natural landscape format by the same angle. Rotate them all by +90 degrees or all by -90 degrees to put them into portrait orientation, or you will very likely have puzzling problems getting the images to align well.

John

aussieboy126
02-28-2010, 05:58 PM
I did a test today and with 86 on the lower rail I get heaps of parallax. I get a lot less at 92 but still get some. I'll follow the guide and play around till I get it perfect.

aussieboy126
02-28-2010, 07:12 PM
OK after heaps of experimenting - it seems the bit that connects to the bottom of my camera was loose. Tightened it up and tried with 86 but still got some errors. Tried 88 still got some errors. 89 seems like the magic number for my D3s + Nikon 16mm F2.8.
This guide was invaluable for nailing the correct settings for my combo. The nadir is now a perfect circle with no sawtooth.

http://www.easypano.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=4162

hindenhaag
02-28-2010, 11:02 PM
Hi Simon,

could you please measure "H" for me. ( See the lens database)

http://wiki.panotools.org/Entrance_Pupil_Database

Just measure to the small pin on the lens flange.

Thx

Heinz

aussieboy126
02-28-2010, 11:34 PM
Nikon D3s - H=75mm. My nadir looks perfect @ 89 on the lower rail but still getting some stitching errors in parts of the panorama.

John Houghton
03-01-2010, 01:23 AM
If you are still getting stitching errors, then possibly you may have vertical parallax problems. I suggest you do the test that checks the entrance pupil position as illustrated in http://www.johnhpanos.com/ep-swing.gif in the tutorial at http://www.johnhpanos.com/epcalib.htm. If you still have problems after that, then if you care to make a set of images available, I'll be happy to investigate.

John

aussieboy126
03-01-2010, 03:31 AM
Have experimented more. Still think 89 lower rail is right. Tripod head in nadir is a perfect cirlce. Did the test from John and it looks good too. I am starting to think maybe it's the -15 degree tilt I am using. I'm going to try and do a few more with 0 and maybe 10 degrees to see if they stitch better. Happy to post images just let me know what you need to help me?

hindenhaag
03-01-2010, 04:16 AM
89 should be right. -17,5? degree pitch. After optimizing in PTGui i get "very good" with "full frame" 16mm. My "H" is 78 with CP-2 on the D3.

Just try 0? pitch. Just send your .pts or the six pictures you shot.

Heinz

John Houghton
03-01-2010, 05:42 AM
The 15 degree tilt shoulldn't make any difference, but let's see the images. Half size jpeg should be ok, plus your .pts project file.

John

aussieboy126
03-02-2010, 03:58 AM
Thanks for any help - have compressed the files into one At this link

http://www.ixl360.com.au/photo.rar

This is with upper - 68 - lower 89 and -15 degrees. Sorry about the subject but wanted as many lines as possible. There seems to be some tearing in the image on the walls

Simon

John Houghton
03-02-2010, 06:24 AM
There were two main problems with your project file. The spread of control points was poor and you need to include the horizontal and vertical shift lens parameters in the optimization. So adding some points manually eventually produced a reasonable stitch. I've uploaded my project file to http://www.johnhpanos.com/SIW_1536-jh.zip.

John

hindenhaag
03-02-2010, 01:39 PM
Hi Simon,

thx for placing the photos. Till now i do not know what stitching software you use or i missed it. I just stitched the photos without zenith in PTGui, i take the same conclusion as John. Walking through the control points two by two, i could realize bulks of control points on the ground, near the plant, around the lamp, but very few spread over the boards, especially not in the upper regions, in the "bending area", or in the middle of the boards connecting to the lamp. I deleted CP's "in the nowhere", something in the middle of a stone at rare points, added and spread control points which are clear: at the corner of a stone, not at a point in the structure, at the end of the board up in the skye, clear black white points, and in some cases i had to add points in the middle of a board. For this you have to zoom in to 50%, highlight the pointer, and check the structures. Add the CP on one picture and after placing three CP, PTGui makes a proposition. Following the program to place the point to picture two, you will realize cause of the lack of clear structures in some region, the program will misplace the second CP. You have to correct it manually.

A place like this is always complicated to stitch. You have to go in CP's two by two, delete the rare one's, and add some on clear points spread over the place horizontally and vertically. You can realize this having a look to your first stitch checking the areas with stitch faults and looking to these points in CP two by two.

OK, after that, i optimized with "Heavy + Lens shift, go to optimize - advanced and check the chosen things- and i got a nice stitch. Nothing to do with rail settings, Lower setting with 89 for the D3/D3s, and 68 for the 16mm/f2.8 fisheye lens.

Just a question of location, structures and the spread of CP's in the pictures.

I will try to add Pts or mov.

Had a look to your website, nice, but some questions and comments arose. I do not want to criticize, just some hints of the point of view of a new "very critical customer, who is asked to spend around 400$ and is looking to your panoramas"

There is a stitching error on the stairs on the right hand side of the stairs in the starting pano.

I walked through every point and had look to the pano, but at the end i felt "dead". Why? For me, cause of many dark spots without details specially in the
nature areas or "windows" in the building, when i zoom it is not sharp, i feel like dead.

Questions: Did you use bracketing, did you set the menu of the D3s to vivid colours, did you use if bracketing the CL mode to be quick in shooting and then use a HDRI Software?

Sorry for my comment, but my personal feeling of the opening panorama on your website is not good. For me, i would like to see a memorial place to give me hope, to remember moments of happiness for persons i should remember on "a sunny day" not on "a foggy day", ...so,why don't you try to give places like this beautiful colours, life by lettings the trees see details that the leaves are growing, vivid colours of the clouds, nature is alive, for everyone of us, i would like to see this as a new customer in your panos.

Till now, i did not give comments like this. But if you want a contract from me, "no chance", but i am critical.

But at the end, i think i like to set a statement:

my experience on the forum told me, there many are people, who are spending their time to help "newbies" to get them on the shoot. Receive a brilliant product and off you go. Do not be disappointed while stitching.

Feel free to ask questions, they will try to help. Like Bill, Nick, John, Vincen, and all the resellers answering on the web.

Feel free to ask me more details, if you like.

Heinz

BTW: i adore this forum cause i find some people who try help! Without getting a fortune out of it to buy a bentley, nice car... but there is a nice product, "we are listening, we are turning you around, we try harder, expanding horizons" and the owners send a quick response? I think Obama learned from Nick and Bill :wink:, "yes we can" , wow, does Obama already own a NN5/RD16, R1 for quick solutions?

A Joke, but thanks for the response on the forum, i adore these discussions,

Heinz

aussieboy126
03-03-2010, 02:15 AM
Wow - you guys are great.
John - thanks for the project file - the stitch looked 100% better. Just a question - are the horizontal and vert shift parameters always the same for the 16mm lens?
Heinz - Thanks for having a look at it for me. Think John and you have nailed it. I'm not doing enough manual CPs At least with Johns project file I know know my photos are not at fault just my stitching. My website is not 100% just yet as I am trying to nail down the settings on my new equipment. I previously used the D300 + 10.5mm (which is now shaved). The tropical pano on the main page was just a pretty one that I did a few years ago. I agree with the dark areas not being impressive. I like that you are critical as I am a bit of a perfectionist myself. Now I know my CPs are the issue I'll be fixing all future ones up. Haven't tried HDR panos yet as I couldn't get my no-HDRs to stitch - that is on my list of things to do. think I will re-stitch the one inside my car as I hate the misaligned bits.

Thanks everyone for all the helpful comments I really appreciate it and if you want to look me up go to http://www.ixl360.com.au

Simon

John Houghton
03-03-2010, 02:44 AM
Just a question - are the horizontal and vert shift parameters always the same for the 16mm lens?

In theory - yes. In practice, mechanical tolerances in the lens and camera mount are such that variations are likely to occur when any physical changes are made (unmounting and remounting the lens, altering the focus setting etc.). In addition, the optimizer may evaluate slightly varying values depending on control points placement and compensating for minor parallax effects.

John

hindenhaag
03-03-2010, 04:38 AM
Hi Simon,

just want to add my results.

For HDRI have a look to Photomatix Pro, might be DxO could help you as well.

http://www.hdrsoft.com
http://www.dxo.com

Right now it may help you to use photoshop to "pimp" a difficult dynamic range situation. Import a photo, go to Image, Adjustments, Shadows/Highlights, find a good correction. Set these to "default" and change every shot in the same way. Then start stitching.

If you like to send me an email address, i will send you some more information. Cause of time reasons i do not run a website till now.

Cheers

Heinz

aussieboy126
03-04-2010, 04:49 AM
Thank you both. I talked to the guys from PTGUI and got some help too. off to Sydney tomorrow to do the Opera House and Harbour bridge by day and night. Got anothe pano head for my shave 10.5mm today so keen to test 16mm and 10.5. My hotel room even has a view of the Opera House - very cool. Then off to Taronga Zoo to take photos with my new 200-400mm F4.

hindenhaag
03-04-2010, 01:39 PM
Pleasure,

and have fun with your new equipment.

BTW, I shoot in CLMode when I use bracketing. If you have some money left, two sandisk extreme pro cards 32GB will help you to take your pictures without changing the card in the middle of a pano and rights it down with 90mb/sec.
You can realize the double speed to the old extreme IV with 45mb/sec. With this card I often had to wait till the data was written to the card.

Heinz