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AllanADL
02-22-2010, 04:42 AM
G'day
Greetings from South Australia. I am a complete newbie to panoramas. I work for an Australian University and want to make panoramas into tours for educational purposes. I recently purchased a Nikon D5000 and an 18-200 mm lens.

From what I can figure based on the info on this site ... I think I need a Ninja 5 head. I would like to get a Nikkor fisheye lens but am afraid the cost too expensive right now and I need to wait. I think if I get say a 55mm standard lens the weight of the camera plus lens is light enough for a Ninja 3.

Is this the correct logic? What head should I get? The cost difference between 3 and 5 could pay for the extra lens.

Any advice on which head and extra accessories I need would be a great help

Regards
Allan

nick fan
02-22-2010, 06:48 AM
G'day
Greetings from South Australia. I am a complete newbie to panoramas. I work for an Australian University and want to make panoramas into tours for educational purposes. I recently purchased a Nikon D5000 and an 18-200 mm lens.

From what I can figure based on the info on this site ... I think I need a Ninja 5 head. I would like to get a Nikkor fisheye lens but am afraid the cost too expensive right now and I need to wait. I think if I get say a 55mm standard lens the weight of the camera plus lens is light enough for a Ninja 3.

Is this the correct logic? What head should I get? The cost difference between 3 and 5 could pay for the extra lens.

Any advice on which head and extra accessories I need would be a great help

Regards
Allan


if you want to make spherical pano, you should get a fisheye lens. The Samyang (or other names) 8mm fisheye is quite cheap.
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=8mm+fisheye&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=
It works fine with NN3.


Nick

hindenhaag
02-22-2010, 08:24 AM
Hallo Allan,

just one question, do you have a 18-200 VR or VRII lens? You know you have to shoot round about 20 photos for a single row and 230 for a spherical with a nikkor 50mm/f1.4? You could better use your zoom lens at 18mm with about 3 rowa and 30 shots. But i need to know your lens to help you further.

As nick said, a fisheye would be the best solution.

Heinz

AllanADL
02-22-2010, 12:15 PM
Hallo Allan,

just one question, do you have a 18-200 VR or VRII lens? You know you have to shoot round about 20 photos for a single row and 230 for a spherical with a nikkor 50mm/f1.4? You could better use your zoom lens at 18mm with about 3 rowa and 30 shots. But i need to know your lens to help you further.

As nick said, a fisheye would be the best solution.

Heinz


Thanks guys for the help

Heinz I have a Nikkor 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VRII lens - I hope that helps.

Appreciate a fisheye would be much better and am nervous about a brand other than Nikkor .... does marketing work or what :-) Anyone got further advice on the best brand quality for value. I appreciate the help re Ebay and there seems a lot of choices.

Also is there some other lens I guess the lowest mm or widest angle the better that might be a compromise

ONE MORE THING: Would my camera with the 18-200 lens be too heavy for a Mk 3. Also I have just purchased a tripod with a capacity limit of 4 lbs for travel .... am I pushing that with a head and my present camera configuration please.

Again really appreciate the help .... I see virtual tours as a really under-utilised media type for higher education assessment - looking forward to developing something for example as part of scenario based learning

Regards
Allan

nick fan
02-22-2010, 06:13 PM
Thanks guys for the help

Heinz I have a Nikkor 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VRII lens - I hope that helps.

Appreciate a fisheye would be much better and am nervous about a brand other than Nikkor .... does marketing work or what :-) Anyone got further advice on the best brand quality for value. I appreciate the help re Ebay and there seems a lot of choices.

Also is there some other lens I guess the lowest mm or widest angle the better that might be a compromise

ONE MORE THING: Would my camera with the 18-200 lens be too heavy for a Mk 3. Also I have just purchased a tripod with a capacity limit of 4 lbs for travel .... am I pushing that with a head and my present camera configuration please.

Again really appreciate the help .... I see virtual tours as a really under-utilised media type for higher education assessment - looking forward to developing something for example as part of scenario based learning

Regards
Allan


About Samyang, this may help.
http://www.panoguide.com/forums/qna/7448/

I am not sure about 18-200mm. It can be too long for NN3.

Nick

AllanADL
02-23-2010, 12:44 AM
About Samyang, this may help.
http://www.panoguide.com/forums/qna/7448/

I am not sure about 18-200mm. It can be too long for NN3.

Nick


Hi Nick
Thanks for this. That forum thread was very interesting and one thing it did highlight was how much I have yet to learn about spherical panos etc. The Samyang looks really like a contender.

Can anyone confirm or otherwise that my present 18-200 mm lens on a Nikon D5000 is too big/heavy for a NN3

Regards
Allan

Hugh
02-23-2010, 05:58 AM
Hello Allan,

I have used my Nikon 18-200mm VR (but not VR II) lens on my Nikon D60 with my Nodal Ninja NN3 to produce successful Spherical Panoramas, but it does need a lot of images and additional Control Points when using PTGui to blend the images.

The D5000 is 10mm and 14mm larger (D60 = 126 x 94 x 64mm, D5000 = 127 x 104 x 80mm) and 75g more than the D60 and the VR II 5g heavier, but the same size as the VR.

http://www.hugha.co.uk/NodalPoint/Lens-Investigation.htm#Nikon_18-200mm_zoom_lens_@_18mm

The nodal point on the Nikon 18-200mm VR is 32mm back from the front of the lens
http://www.hugha.co.uk/NodalPoint/Index.htm#Results_

Best regards, Hugh.

hindenhaag
02-23-2010, 11:18 AM
Hello Allan,

just tested the 18-200mm VRII today with the D200. Till now i could proof the following settings with NN5 RD16 CP-2. Lower rail setting is 56 for the D200. For the D5000 it is 55 with NN5/CP-2, 59 for NN3/CP/2.

Here are the settings: 18 103, 24 100, 35 90, 50 74, 70 52. Stopped with 135 which i have to confirm tomorrow, but it might be at 28, you have to use the special small knob. Cause the D5000 has another position of the tripod mount, 42mm instead of 40mm with the D200 you should go 2mm backwards. Knowing this, you can use settings from cameras with 40mm tripod mount distance to lens flange like D90 D80 D200 D3.

Don't forget to order the EZ-Leveller II, which you can mount directly to your tripod without a ball head. You will be happy with this.

To proof your lower rail setting you may use this link: http://www.easypano.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=4162

And welcome in the world of panos.

Heinz

Bill Bailey
02-23-2010, 03:36 PM
Hello Allan,
I have used my Nikon 18-200mm VR (but not VR II) lens on my Nikon D60 with my Nodal Ninja NN3 to produce successful Spherical Panoramas, but it does need a lot of images and additional Control Points when using PTGui to blend the images.
The D5000 is 10mm and 14mm larger (D60 = 126 x 94 x 64mm, D5000 = 127 x 104 x 80mm) and 75g more than the D60 and the VR II 5g heavier, but the same size as the VR.
http://www.hugha.co.uk/NodalPoint/Lens-Investigation.htm#Nikon_18-200mm_zoom_lens_@_18mm
The nodal point on the Nikon 18-200mm VR is 32mm back from the front of the lens
http://www.hugha.co.uk/NodalPoint/Index.htm#Results_
Best regards, Hugh.
Hugh - I see you are using this with the Leica GeoSystem - one minor suggestion would be to mount your camera with hand grip on the up side. Makes things feel a bit more ergonomic.
Cheers
Bill

Bill Bailey
02-23-2010, 03:53 PM
G'day
Greetings from South Australia. I am a complete newbie to panoramas. I work for an Australian University and want to make panoramas into tours for educational purposes. I recently purchased a Nikon D5000 and an 18-200 mm lens.
From what I can figure based on the info on this site ... I think I need a Ninja 5 head. I would like to get a Nikkor fisheye lens but am afraid the cost too expensive right now and I need to wait. I think if I get say a 55mm standard lens the weight of the camera plus lens is light enough for a Ninja 3.
Is this the correct logic? What head should I get? The cost difference between 3 and 5 could pay for the extra lens.
Any advice on which head and extra accessories I need would be a great help
Regards
Allan

Hey Allan,
I see you are getting some good feedback - here's a bit more.
While you could get by using this camera and lens on NN3 at the wider focal lengths (18mm) it is very near the upper weight limitations of the product - some sag may occur especially with longer exposures. The lens Nick suggested is a popular one and certainly worthy of consideration if you are favoring full spherical panoramas up to 360x180 degrees using your D5000 on NN3.

Our least expensive option to accommodate your current needs is the NN5L. The stand alone version is only US$329 and even less if you can find one used (contact one of the resellers in your region). The NN5L will not only accommodate your camera and 18-200mm lens but give you much more room to grow later down the room. The image quality of the 18-55 would be better than the Samyang but obviously requires more images to produce a panorama. So the initial investment on your part would be less if opting for the NN5L.
Here is a chart at the bottom of this page to give you a "general idea" of the number of shots required to shot at a given focal length.
http://nodalninja.com/product_selector.html

Hope this helps
keep us posted on how you go
Cheers
Bill

John Houghton
02-23-2010, 11:30 PM
Here is a chart at the bottom of this page to give you a "general idea" of the number of shots required to shot at a given focal length.
http://nodalninja.com/product_selector.html
The chart only gives the number of shots for a single row 360 degree panorama. A guide for the total number of shots needed for a full 360x180 panorama can be found at http://www.vrwave.com/.

John

AllanADL
02-24-2010, 02:00 AM
Hey Allan,
I see you are getting some good feedback - here's a bit more.
While you could get by using this camera and lens on NN3 at the wider focal lengths (18mm) it is very near the upper weight limitations of the product - some sag may occur especially with longer exposures. The lens Nick suggested is a popular one and certainly worthy of consideration if you are favoring full spherical panoramas up to 360x180 degrees using your D5000 on NN3.

Our least expensive option to accommodate your current needs is the NN5L. The stand alone version is only US$329 and even less if you can find one used (contact one of the resellers in your region). The NN5L will not only accommodate your camera and 18-200mm lens but give you much more room to grow later down the room. The image quality of the 18-55 would be better than the Samyang but obviously requires more images to produce a panorama. So the initial investment on your part would be less if opting for the NN5L.
Here is a chart at the bottom of this page to give you a "general idea" of the number of shots required to shot at a given focal length.
http://nodalninja.com/product_selector.html

Hope this helps
keep us posted on how you go
Cheers
Bill

Guys

What can I say .... I have trained for 10 years in Higher Ed to show academics/teachers how to, among other things, build learning communities. You guys practice it. Thanks so much for all the great advice.

Let me ask some more questions to make sure I understand. Bill and others are suggesting - with some added interpretation. It would be best to buy

1. The NN5L - the complete package maybe from the estore which has a sale price of US $349.95 at present exchange rate that is about A$393.00 (Aust dist selling price is A$450.00)

2. Hindenhaag said not to forget the EZ-Leveller II that looks like it is US$110 approx

3. Do I need a Rotator or is that in the NN5L package?

Ok with this pano head system I can use the D5000 with the 18-200 mm lens and just take more pictures per pano until I can afford

4. The Samyang 8mm f/3.5 Aspherical IF MC Fish-eye for NIKON which on ebay I can buy for US$290

All I need then is the software .... open to recommendations especially for a MAC?

BTW 10 years ago I was given a Manfrotto 303 head see here: http://services.manfrotto.com/303SPH/. It was way before spherical panos and I haven't used it for years ... so Im starting again. Is it worth anything and should I sell it? ... it is a heavy puppie.

Again thanks for all the great advice I am on a steep learning curve

Regards
Allan

P.S. If there are any educators/teachers especially Higher Ed reading this and use panos and tours for learning objects please contact me? The pedagogical possibilities are exciting

Terrywoodenpic
02-24-2010, 02:34 AM
Your heavy manfrotto 303 would certainly help fund your new Kit.

The EZ leveller is a nice piece of kit and does make things easy. However though I have one, I do not use it, as I became very efficient levelling my Nodal ninja by levelling the legs of my manfrotto tripod,this was Long before the Levellers were available.
Some people never acquire the facility to do this and for them a leveller is not only nice, it is essential.

But the purchase of one could be put off at the start.

The most popular software is PTGui. Though I use PTAssembler (perhaps not the best for 360x180)

nick fan
02-24-2010, 03:41 AM
1. The NN5L - the complete package maybe from the estore which has a sale price of US $349.95 at present exchange rate that is about A$393.00 (Aust dist selling price is A$450.00)

2. Hindenhaag said not to forget the EZ-Leveller II that looks like it is US$110 approx

3. Do I need a Rotator or is that in the NN5L package?

4. The Samyang 8mm f/3.5 Aspherical IF MC Fish-eye for NIKON which on ebay I can buy for US$290

BTW 10 years ago I was given a Manfrotto 303 head see here: http://services.manfrotto.com/303SPH/. It was way before spherical panos and I haven't used it for years ... so Im starting again. Is it worth anything and should I sell it? ... it is a heavy puppie.



If you buy from estore, you should take the shipping cost and possible import duty into account.
NN5L package includes the default rotator. You can also consider the NN5L RD8 package. RD8 is more robust, precise and easy to use than the default rotator.
You can sell your 303SPH and buy the fisheye lens. Or you can keep it and buy the fisheye lens instead of NN5L. Both ways works fine.

Nick

Bill Bailey
02-24-2010, 10:26 AM
1. The NN5L - the complete package maybe from the estore which has a sale price of US $349.95 at present exchange rate that is about A$393.00 (Aust dist selling price is A$450.00)
Regards
Allan

Hey Allan, The prices for all resellers seem high because they include GST/VAT/Customs fees etc. Because they buy in bulk after all is said and done it is cheaper to buy from them than it would if you went through the website.
thx
Bill

hindenhaag
02-25-2010, 06:25 AM
I would try to sell the manfrotto and get the fisheye lens instead. I used it in the beginning and now i love the smooth and lightweight Nodal Ninja Stuff.

I am a mac user as well. Normally i use PTGui and sometimes Autopanogiga. Autopanogiga is more automatically and does a lot on it's own.

To learn about stitching and to set control points etc, i would start with PTGui. A lot of information and tutorials to find on the net.

www.ptgui.com
www.autopano.net/en/

You can download trial versions and test them yourself.

If you do not have photos to test, just let me know.

BTW: I ordered my first NN5 RD12 via the website because it waas not availible in my country. If i remember it right, it was 180Ǩ on top. So right now i order in my homecountry. If you do not use UPS or something like it, I nearly lost a parcel from the states via international post. Cheaper, but it took 1,5 month to recieve it. UPS was there within 3 day, but this costs a fortune.


Heinz

Hugh
03-02-2010, 12:36 AM
Hugh - I see you are using this with the Leica GeoSystem - one minor suggestion would be to mount your camera with hand grip on the up side. Makes things feel a bit more ergonomic.
Cheers
Bill


Thanks Bill, All advice gratefully received.
My interest in Spherical Panoramas goes back some years and I could find virtualy no information on the Internet when I started so I have had to experiment myself and I find some of things I do differ so I am always willing to learn.
I use the Leica Geosystems set up because I have found that I have been drawn in to the HDS (High Definition Survey) part of our business, but I do find using the camera on a survey tripod means it is rock solid.
Best regards,
Hugh.

AllanADL
03-25-2010, 10:39 PM
Hey Allan, The prices for all resellers seem high because they include GST/VAT/Customs fees etc. Because they buy in bulk after all is said and done it is cheaper to buy from them than it would if you went through the website.
thx
Bill




Hi Bill and others kindly responding here

Sorry mate I haven't responded until now but been overseas with the uni and have been waiting for the spare cash to start to equip for these educational pano tours. Yesterday I took the plunge and purchased from Poland no less, the SAMYANG fisheye lens and am waiting its arrival. Yeeeess! :001_smile:

OK the next step is the head and then learn how to use it properly. Lots more dumb questions :wink:

Sorry to start now on these but may I have some more advice.

* Now I am soon to have the fisheye will I ever need to take spherical panoramas with the much heavier 18-200 Nikkor lens?

* Couldn't I just change lens to the fisheye on the Nikkon D5000 and have a much lighter camera set-up for Panoramas - and would this mean all I need is a Ninja 3 and not the 5L?

* Is there any advantage/difference that might justify taking panoramas with the 18-200 Lens? - the down side is as I understand it just more photos needed right?

* Is my Nikkon D5000 + Samyang fisheye lens light enough for the Ninja 3?

* I have recently purchased a new travel tripod a "Velbon Ultra LUXi-M Tripod with PHD-41Q 3-Way Pan/Tilt Head" See it here http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/589889-REG/Velbon_ULTRA_LUXI_M_Ultra_LUXi_M_Tripod_with.html Its max weight is 4.4 lb 2kg. Will that handle my camera and fisheye and pan head please?

* Also please notice that the tripod pan head is such that the lens of the camera doesn't sit over the exact centre of the tripod like most I have seen. Is that an issue with spherical panos and I will need a new tripod head?

I will really appreciate the help here. I am getting closer to the purchase and there seeems so many options.

Regards
Allan

hindenhaag
03-26-2010, 12:22 AM
A lot of question before breakfast :wink:,

shoot your panos with the fisheye lens. We only spoke about the 18-200 because this was the lens you already had at home and because of budget. Takes a lot of more shots to be ready for a spherical panorama. And to answer the other question as well, take a single row with the 18mm, compare the difference between a fisheye lens and a normal one, resolution, distortion, lens flare etc. It is not only the difference in the number of shots.

Have a look to this site and walk through, it is weekend, a lot of information.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm

I think the D5000 will be fine with fisheye and NN3. Just check the upper rail setting of your fisheye lens will fit to the length of the NN3 upper rail. Check the data on the forum.

Does not matter that the tripod head is off center of the tripod.

You mount the NN3 / NN5 on top. The rotation center for the panoramas is the one of the rotators of NN3 and NN5, not the one of the tripod. So this does not matter.

Ok, off to work, and good look

Heinz

hindenhaag
03-26-2010, 01:21 AM
Allan,

something more for your weekend:

http://smooth360.com/blog/index.php?m=10&y=09&entry=entry091027-171306

http://michel.thoby.free.fr/SAMYANG/Early%20test%20report.html

Regards,

Heinz

markkuk
03-27-2010, 05:19 AM
* Now I am soon to have the fisheye will I ever need to take spherical panoramas with the much heavier 18-200 Nikkor lens?
No, unless you want higher resolution pictures (see question 3)



* Couldn't I just change lens to the fisheye on the Nikkon D5000 and have a much lighter camera set-up for Panoramas - and would this mean all I need is a Ninja 3 and not the 5L?
Yes.



* Is there any advantage/difference that might justify taking panoramas with the 18-200 Lens? - the down side is as I understand it just more photos needed right?
The resolution of the resulting panorama will be better when you take more photos with a longer lens.



* Is my Nikkon D5000 + Samyang fisheye lens light enough for the Ninja 3?
Yes. I'm currently using a Pentax K20D + Samyang fisheye with a NN3, and the K20D is bigger and heavier than your D5000.



* I have recently purchased a new travel tripod a "Velbon Ultra LUXi-M Tripod with PHD-41Q 3-Way Pan/Tilt Head" . Will that handle my camera and fisheye and pan head please?
Is the pan/tilt head removable? Ideally you should mount the Nodal Ninja head directly on the tripod legs, not on top of another head.

AllanADL
04-09-2010, 12:22 PM
No, unless you want higher resolution pictures (see question 3)
Yes.
The resolution of the resulting panorama will be better when you take more photos with a longer lens.
Yes. I'm currently using a Pentax K20D + Samyang fisheye with a NN3, and the K20D is bigger and heavier than your D5000.
Is the pan/tilt head removable? Ideally you should mount the Nodal Ninja head directly on the tripod legs, not on top of another head.



Guys

The great news for me is that the Samyang Fisheye has arrived from Poland ... those guys give good service and thnaks to y'all for helping me decide and purchase it ... iis awesome.

A small point is that it seems there are no filters for it ... the addition at least of a UV filter to protect that amazing ball of fine glass seems to me to be a good idea. But maybe Im missing something.

However the next big challenge, and I am looking for the answers online as well as enrolling in some great courses, is how to set up my Nikon D5000 to work manually with this lens ... told you I was a rusty newbe not skilled in the latest DSLR's. How to quickly get the settings right for the lens when actually photographing is what it is all about I guess.

Then the next purchase is the NN ... 3 or 5L ... or 5 with what rotators or complete package and do I really need a leveller ... good grief my head hurts. However I am determined to buy the best alternatives even if it takes a little longer to fund and learn it all.

Again thanks mate(s) as they say down here

Regards
Allan

hindenhaag
04-09-2010, 10:56 PM
Hi :biggrin: Allan,

you seem to look something like this guy.

Because of the extreme curvature of front lenses of fisheye or wide angle lenses like Nikkor 14-24mm/f2.8 you can not use filters in front of the lenses to get protection for the glass. Some, like the nikkor 16mm/f2.8 fisheye comes with filters you can screw to the back of the lens, others use gelfilters. So you have to be very careful with these lenses.

To get an impressions of NN3 /NN5 have a look to this http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/index.php/topic,978.15.html.

D90 is similar to D5000, you may use lenses up to 18-200VRII. So if you do not want to step to full frame cameras, it might be NN3. Decide yourself between NN3 MKII complete package or a combination with an RD8 RD16. Difference: either you have to take it apart to change the ring for a different number of stops or turn it around, With a RD.. you just replace the detend plunger in another hole.

Walk through the forum, "search" with keywords, and you already can find a lot of information about your questions.

Heinz