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riefa
05-25-2009, 03:09 AM
Well, these are my first panoramas using NN5..:001_smile:

http://tr.im/m4NL
(sorry for the langguage, it's in Bahasa Indonesia, just disregard it)

There are 2 panos in that link.
First one was at Ayodia park. That was the very first time I use NN5. The result was a total disaster...:biggrin: I used Canon 400D + EF 17-40mm f/4 L for this VR.

The last one was at my office during weekend. Although the result is way better than the first one, but there are still some stitching errors at the Zenith and also Nadir.
For this one, I used Canon 500D + Tokina 12-24mm @ f/11. Fewer shots needed than using 17-40mm


I also tried making panoramas using Canon Fisheye lens EF 15mm f/2.8. My NN5 settings for this camera & lens combination are: 49mm (lower rail) & 81mm (upper rail). Please CMIIW...:001_smile: Below are the panoramas

http://tr.im/mjkn
This panoramas is not full spherical though, due to i didnt have a the chance to shoot the tilt down series..:biggrin:. And also, i made a mistake by using auto focus, therefore you migh see blurry images on some (many actually) part of the panorama.

http://tr.im/mjku
This one probabbly better than the previous one. but there are some ghosting visible due to poeple movements. I wonder, does using alpha channel to exclude some part of the person in the image might result in a better stitching result? i mean the ghosting would be eliminated?
Learning from the previous panorama, this time i use hyperfocal focusing & shoot at f8

http://tr.im/mjkx
Now this one i think is better than all of the panorama above...:biggrin:...but still, exposure differences at the Nadir is still visible..:biggrin:...


So...thats all about it for now...i'am expecting some straight forward critics on my panorama, and hopefully i can improve my panos...:wink: Thanks in advance...:wink:

During my first experience, i found out that EZ-Leveler is a very CRUCIAL thing. Kinda regret not buying it with the NN5 in the first place...:sad:...but will do soon...:biggrin:
Also, i'm thinking of buying either tokina 10-17, sigma 8mm f/3.5, or Nikkor 10.5mm for my Canon 400D.....:biggrin::biggrin:....

Many thanks to John hougton for his tutorial on Viewpoint Correction to patch the Nadir..:wink:...i'am not as good as the tutor though...but will do improve..:wink:

Cheers,
Riefa

hindenhaag
05-26-2009, 10:39 AM
Hi Riefa,

great improvement within three pano's. i realize you working hard on these things and i see you on the forum. I am new too in this business, but i did a course on making panos with the very well experienced Jan van der Woning in Amsterdam.

A great Saturday. His tip for taking the zenith: if you have problems, cause the whole sky is blue or only leaves on top, take two zenith shot at for e.g. 60?, and may be one at 90? for "security". Try to give the stitching program some help to find some controls points, for e.g. in your pano you could take the corner of the house in 60 degrees and a second one in 60 degrees on the opposite side, so turn around 180?. First stitch your pano without the zenith completely, and than add the two pictures from the zenith and stitch again. Using this method with PTGui Pro, this worked very well. I found it a very helpful tip from Jan, who is in this business sine around ten years as a professional.

Good luck

Heinz

John Houghton
05-26-2009, 12:06 PM
I wonder, does using alpha channel to exclude some part of the person in the image might result in a better stitching result? i mean the ghosting would be eliminated?
Alpha channel masks on the input images can certainly help in removing ghosts, but you have to mark the parts of the image that you DON'T want to appear in the final panorama. It's often easier to output blended + layers in a psd file and edit the image that way. It's also worth trying Smartblend, which can eliminate many ghosts automatically.

John

riefa
05-26-2009, 05:00 PM
Hi Riefa,

great improvement within three pano's. i realize you working hard on these things and i see you on the forum. I am new too in this business, but i did a course on making panos with the very well experienced Jan van der Woning in Amsterdam.

A great Saturday. His tip for taking the zenith: if you have problems, cause the whole sky is blue or only leaves on top, take two zenith shot at for e.g. 60?, and may be one at 90? for "security". Try to give the stitching program some help to find some controls points, for e.g. in your pano you could take the corner of the house in 60 degrees and a second one in 60 degrees on the opposite side, so turn around 180?. First stitch your pano without the zenith completely, and than add the two pictures from the zenith and stitch again. Using this method with PTGui Pro, this worked very well. I found it a very helpful tip from Jan, who is in this business sine around ten years as a professional.

Good luck

Heinz


Hi there Heinz...

Thanks for the comments & inputs. Yes i do work hard on my panos..:wink: It is quite difficult to find an experienced person in Indonesia. I did my own self study, practice, and discuss with my friends whom also interested in photography (although not specifically into panorama).

Thanks a lot for the tips on the Zenith, will do try on my next panoramas...:001_smile:

There are also some things that comes to my mind when creating panorama:
1. focusing: does hyperfocal distance also applied the same way for fish eye lens?
2. dynamic range: i often encounter a wide range of Dynamic Range when taking panoramas. Which one is better options to get a good natural result, HDR or just exposure blending? what software is probable the best for each of them? and also, when should we process for HDR / exposure blending? Before/after stitching?

Cheers,
Riefa

riefa
05-26-2009, 05:01 PM
Alpha channel masks on the input images can certainly help in removing ghosts, but you have to mark the parts of the image that you DON'T want to appear in the final panorama. It's often easier to output blended + layers in a psd file and edit the image that way. It's also worth trying Smartblend, which can eliminate many ghosts automatically.

John


thanks John.....:wink: I will try Smartblend before i spend some time with the alpha and/or editing the PSD...:wink:

Cheers,
Riefa

riefa
05-26-2009, 06:23 PM
It's also worth trying Smartblend, which can eliminate many ghosts automatically

i tried to use Smartblend on the existing panorama (http://tr.im/mjku)...and...voillaaa...it gives me instant result!!

the previous one has some ghosting on some people due to movements.....the new one using smartblend, no ghosting..:biggrin:

This is the revised VR: http://rapidshare.com/files/237620037/VR_2_smartblend.mov (4,2MB)

thanks for the tips John..:wink:

Cheers,
Riefa

John Houghton
05-27-2009, 01:30 AM
Your .mov file shows rather poor quality for a 4.2MB file size. Evidently you used a cubic tile size of only 638 and the maximum quality setting of 100. For a good fullscreen display, I suggest you prepare your final stitched equirectangular at 6000x3000. In the conversion to .mov, specify a tile size of pano width divided by pi (3.142) whch will then be 1910. Adust the quality setting to the lowest value that just avoids any nasty compression artifacts, which will be around 70. The .mov file size will then be 2-3 MB. Depending on the image content, you may sometimes need to choose a smaller tile size and/or higher quality setting in order to keep the quality and file size to acceptable limits.

John

riefa
05-27-2009, 01:54 AM
Your .mov file shows rather poor quality for a 4.2MB file size. Evidently you used a cubic tile size of only 638 and the maximum quality setting of 100. For a good fullscreen display, I suggest you prepare your final stitched equirectangular at 6000x3000. In the conversion to .mov, specify a tile size of pano width divided by pi (3.142) whch will then be 1910. Adust the quality setting to the lowest value that just avoids any nasty compression artifacts, which will be around 70. The .mov file size will then be 2-3 MB. Depending on the image content, you may sometimes need to choose a smaller tile size and/or higher quality setting in order to keep the quality and file size to acceptable limits.

John


wow...noted! thanks a lot John. I've been asking around to some friends of mine here about cubic size etc....but none give a clear straightforward answer....:biggrin:...and then you posted this reply...:biggrin:

do you know any links about this cubic conversion that i can read?...:001_smile:...

thanks John..:wink:

cheers,
Riefa

John Houghton
05-27-2009, 06:04 AM
There's a useful Pano2VR video tutorial at http://gardengnomesoftware.com/. A free version of Pano2QTVR is also available there. One point worth mentioning is that the choice of interpolator in both Pano2QTVR and Pano2VR is important for good quality. Preferably use lanczos3: in Pano2QTVR it is selected on the Settings tab, and via FIle->Settings in Pano2VR. PTGui doesn't offer a choice but gives good results.

John

riefa
05-28-2009, 05:48 AM
There's a useful Pano2VR video tutorial at http://gardengnomesoftware.com/. A free version of Pano2QTVR is also available there. One point worth mentioning is that the choice of interpolator in both Pano2QTVR and Pano2VR is important for good quality. Preferably use lanczos3: in Pano2QTVR it is selected on the Settings tab, and via FIle->Settings in Pano2VR. PTGui doesn't offer a choice but gives good results.

John


Ok. Thanks John...:wink:

Riefa

hindenhaag
05-30-2009, 07:01 AM
Hi Riefa,


you already got some answers for your questions.

hyperfocal distance with fisheye lens : yes you have to use it, look to www.dofmaster.com/dofs.html for the calculator for your camera and lens combination, you will find this for th Canon D400.

I also use Pano2vR which John mentioned. I'd like to add some informortion for you: Buy Pano2VR, cause the older version PanoQTVR is no longer supported with updates. So you should get the Version Pano2VR. If you like to use bank transfer, you can use the following data from Thomas which i used as well to buy my licence. When Thomas recieved the money, you will get the license key per email.


Bank : BAWAG P.S.K. Bank fur Arbeit und Wirtschaft
BLZ : 14000
Konto : 24410006746
IBAN : AT411400024410006746
BIC(SWIFT): BAWAATWW

Meine Adresse:

Thomas Rauscher
Johann Strauss Gasse 34/11
1040 Wien
Austria

The email adress is as follows: thomas@gardengnomesoftware.com . If there are questions left, you may mail me directly, cause this is a little beyond this forum. Just send Thomas a mail that you like to order a single user license and he will arrange everything for you.

Now PTGui: first of all aline and stitch your pano without any zenith and nadir. Optimize ("advanced" button) till you get good or very good. Than add the first zenith pictures 60? pitch and align and optimize again. Then add your 90? pitch zenith if you have one. Align and optimize again.

Now that you got your pano right, go on with HDR.....optimize, and then, create pano. You should have a coffee aside or another drink, cause this will take time. Or you go to bed after sending the pano to the batch stitcher and this will be done while you sleep.

As John already told you, there are trial versions of PTGui Pro and Pano2VR.

Being so enthusiastic about panos i think you should tell your girlfriend or wife that you will need a forthnight off, to try and error.....

Good luck,

Heinz

riefa
05-30-2009, 08:59 AM
Hi Heinz...

thanks a bunch on the tips.....noted for my further improvement..:wink:

quoting your last statement:


Being so enthusiastic about panos i think you should tell your girlfriend or wife that you will need a forthnight off, to try and error.....


..hehehe...been there done that for sure..:wink:

Thanks again...:wink:

=Riefa=